Fly Sparging Vs. Batch Sparging

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New2HomeBrew

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I have all my equipment and ingredients for my first AG batch. I have read quite a bit and watched several videos, but I can't decide weather to do Fly or Batch sparging. I am planning a 10 gallon American Amber ale for my first attempt. Most of the source material I have read says that fly sparging is the most affective. What are your thoughts? Keep in mind that this is my first AG batch, and I want it to turn out as good as it possibly can. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Batch sparging is by far easier. I have done both, and my efficiency is at 80% with batch, so that is what I stick to. Either will work, but for your first time, batch will really give you a good opportunity to get used to AG without a lot of potential headaches. Good luck to you either way you go!
 
I think fly sparging can be slightly more efficient than batch if you have the right equipment, and a good technique.
With the wrong equipment, batch sparging is much more efficient.
As Drunkensatyr said, batch sparging is much easier. It is also much faster.

-a.
 
I've personally been getting ~85% with fly sparging. With my batch sparging I usually get ~80% so the difference is minimal. With my equipment I can't fly sparge on small (~1.040 OG) grain bills so I do a mix of both. For your first AG since you have so much else to keep straight, as did the others I would also recommend that batch sparging is a great way to get started.
 
bradsul said:
Think of all the fun you're missing out on. :D
As I understand it, fly fishing is a battle of wits between the fisherman and the fish. I don't think it would be fair to encourage the fish to fight an unarmed man. :drunk: eh?

-a.
 
KISS - batch sparge your first few all grain brews. You can try fly sparging later - as mentioned above, some brewers get slightly better efficiency when fly sparging.
 
I've done both now and personally I prefer fly sparging since I'm never much in a hurry when I'm brewing. :cross:

The one thing I didn't like doing with batch sparging was stiring up all the grains and having to think about my lauder turn get plugged with grain sediment ( I have a loop of braided SS I use as a filter medium) ...not to mention having to recirculate again.


heres a write up I found about the subject:

http://www.bayareamashers.org/content/maindocs/BatchSparging.htm
 
ajf said:
As I understand it, fly fishing is a battle of wits between the fisherman and the fish. I don't think it would be fair to encourage the fish to fight an unarmed man. :drunk: eh?

-a.


Isn't the fisherman armed with a fishing pole??? :D
 
Just a thought on the batch vs. fly sparge debate...

Who cares what your efficiency is?!?
Let's say you want an OG of 1.055:
60% efficiency: you need ~13 lb of base malt
70% efficiency: you need ~11 lb of base malt
80% efficiency: you need ~9.75 lb of base malt

That's a whopping delta of like 5 bucks between 60 and 80% efficiency.

Commercial brewers need to watch their efficiency because they need to make a profit, which is also why they use things like corn, rice, and US 2-row malt.

But we homebrewers are free from such concerns.

Hey, go after your high efficiency. Waste is a bad thing. But don't sweat it.

Fly sparge? Awesome.
Batch sparge? Great!

Have some fun, make some beer, then tip a couple of those babies down and watch the sunset.
 
Let's say you want an OG of 1.055:
60% efficiency: you need ~13 lb of base malt
70% efficiency: you need ~11 lb of base malt
80% efficiency: you need ~9.75 lb of base malt

That's a whopping delta of like 5 bucks between 60 and 80% efficiency.

This was a bit confusing but I got it. What you are saying is that if I am at 60% efficiency and want to hit a target of 55 points then what I need is 13lbs of grain. If my system is 80% efficient then, for 55 points, I would only need ~10lbs.

When you put it that way, even for MPBs, why saccrifice taste for a few grand a year? $hi~! at $8-$9 a six, they can make it up quickly and would probably gain more respect IMHO!:mug:

- WW
 
I've been batch sparging with a 10 gallon water cooler & a SS braid since I went All Grain and am very happy with the beers I've been turning out. I don't have my brew hut built yet or my brew sculpture, so I only use gravity from MLT to the kettle, to the fermenter. I don't see a need to change as it ain't broke and I enjoy the speed of batch sparging and 82% efficiency. Some day I might get setup for fly sparging.
 
basically......

batch sparge, add 1/2 lb more grain to make up with the 5% less efficiency, but save over an hour of your time. Ive fly sparged once, and when only doing 5 gallon batches, batch sparging is by far much easier.

Now moving up to 10 gallon+ batches, its going to be much more difficult to batch sparge. It can be done, yes but I still dont like the idea of lifting more than 5 gallons of 180* water up to the tun
 
Chimone said:
Now moving up to 10 gallon+ batches, its going to be much more difficult to batch sparge. It can be done, yes but I still dont like the idea of lifting more than 5 gallons of 180* water up to the tun

I use a two quart pitcher (while wearing a glove) to quickly add water to my MLT till the kettle is down to a liftable amount and then I pour in the rest. Works well for me and so far I only use the table.
 
Chimone said:
Now moving up to 10 gallon+ batches, its going to be much more difficult to batch sparge. It can be done, yes but I still dont like the idea of lifting more than 5 gallons of 180* water up to the tun
Yeah, that little detail thwarted my plans to do 10 gal batches. That, and I realized I need a stand to handle 10 gals. My current setup works well, but I need something that can hold the extra weight if I upscale.

Like you say, though, for 5 gallon batches it is no problem. In fact, I think this is an under-appreciated benefit of batch sparging. You really don't need a three-tier, gravity feed system or a pump setup, which translates into a slightly more convenient setup and/or less gear.

I just put my MLT on the ground and add my sparge water directly from the tap on my kettle and then lift the MLT up onto a shelf to mash and drain back into the kettle. No need for a lifting to the top of a multi-tier stand/ use of a pump that is preferred by fly spargers. It also means that I can be really portable with my system and brew indoors or outdoors or both, depending on the weather. Or I could easily through everything in my car and brew at a buddy's house or something. I guess you could do the same with a fly-sparge system, but it wouldn't be quite as simple or convenient.
 
Thanks for all the input! I thnk that I will try batch sparging for the first go around. Are there any pitfalls that I should be aware of?

My understanding of the method is pretty limited. Here is my basic understanding.

1) You mash for one hour, then recurculate the first runnings and drain completely.
2) You place all or half of your sparge water in the tun, stir, let rest for 15 minutes, recurculate and drain?

Is the equation for the sparge water temp and volume the same as when you do fly?

Any anput is greatly appreciated!
 
New2HomeBrew said:
...Here is my basic understanding.

1) You mash for one hour, then recurculate the first runnings and drain completely.
2) You place all or half of your sparge water in the tun, stir, let rest for 15 minutes, recurculate and drain?

Is the equation for the sparge water temp and volume the same as when you do fly?

The topic of whether to add all your sparge water or half will be dictated by the size of your mash tun and your desired boil volume (shoot for 6.5 gallons). I’d say for your first go around, just sparge with as much water as it takes to get your desired volume.

Sparge water can and should be hotter than your mash water because the conversion has already taken place at the 155 degree area. The hotter water (170-180) will do a better job of rinsing the grains.
 
When recirculating, you only need to recirculate about 1/2 - 1 gallon (until there is no solid material in the runnings).
When adding the sparge water, give it a good stir, but you don't need to rest for 15 minutes. A couple of minutes should be fine.

-a.
 
New2HomeBrew said:
...
1) You mash for one hour, then recurculate the first runnings and drain completely.

2) You place all or half of your sparge water in the tun, stir, let rest for 15 minutes, recurculate and drain?

Is the equation for the sparge water temp and volume the same as when you do fly?

Any anput is greatly appreciated!

Have some ice cubes and boiling water handy to adjust the mash temperature.

No need to rest on the sparge. Pour the water in - stir the mash - start recirculating.

Take notes!!! Particularly on water temperatures - you will learn how to adjust temperatures and after a few batches, you will be able to hit the desired mash temperature without adjustment.
 
I wondered if others were grappling with the same issue (I mean, the issue of hoisting ten gallons of sparge water)... I 'm still doing that. I fill a cooler full of 180 degree water (it's 170 by the time it hits the grainbed) and press that sucker to the top of my serving fridge. I will be able to do this for another ten years or so, and then... well, by then I'll have a four-tiered series of platforms of some kind and a ladder! And a bad back. Cheers -p
 
Alright, So I did a bit more reading on the batch sparging technique (Thanks EdWort for posting that info in your recipe). I see that you add an additional water volume before recirculating. However it says nothing about water temperature. Should this initial addition of hot water be at the mashing temp or should I use the temperature calculations from John Palmers book for the fly sparging technique? I believe I read somewhere that the sparge water temp should not go over 170 to prevent extracting tannins.

What do you Batch spargers do for the initial addition of water after mashing?

I am assuming that I will loose roughly the same ammount of water from my one hour boil for a 10 gallon batch as I will for a 5 gallon batch. I have had to bring my initial boil volume up to 7 gallons for a 5 gallon batch loosing close to two gallons during the one hour boil. Do you think that this is a correct assumption?

I also tried plugging in my recipe details to the spreadsheet listed on that batch sparge webpage. The first run gravity was over 1.4 and the second was listed as .4. Am I doing somehting wrong? It states on that webpage that the gravity should never drop below 1.019?
 
New2HomeBrew said:
I see that you add an additional water volume before recirculating. However it says nothing about water temperature. Should this initial addition of hot water be at the mashing temp or should I use the temperature calculations from John Palmers book for the fly sparging technique? I believe I read somewhere that the sparge water temp should not go over 170 to prevent extracting tannins.
Did you see this thread from a few days ago?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=35416
It discusses the number of batches used when batch sparging.

Once the mash is complete, any water additions should designed to raise the temperature to sparge temperature (165 - 170 degrees).
I usually fly sparge, and when fly sparging, I heat my sparge water to 185 degrees. I also mash out to raise the mash temperature up to about 168.
When I add my 185 degree sparge water to my unheated HLT, the temperature drops nearly 10 degrees. By the time it has meandered through the tubing to the sparge arm, it has cooled to about 170. I don't keep the water below 170, but do keep the sparge below 170.
Also, the 170 isn't a switch. You will extract tannins when sparging. It is unavoidable. Hotter water extracts more tannins, but providing the temperature is kept below 170, and the pH of the sparge is kept below a value that I don't know, you will not get excessive tannin extraction. The normal way to control this is to keep the sparge temperature at or below 170 and the gravity of the runnings at or above ~1.010

New2HomeBrew said:
I am assuming that I will loose roughly the same ammount of water from my one hour boil for a 10 gallon batch as I will for a 5 gallon batch. I have had to bring my initial boil volume up to 7 gallons for a 5 gallon batch loosing close to two gallons during the one hour boil. Do you think that this is a correct assumption?

Don't have a clue. I've never brewed 10g batches

New2HomeBrew said:
I also tried plugging in my recipe details to the spreadsheet listed on that batch sparge webpage. The first run gravity was over 1.4 and the second was listed as .4. Am I doing somehting wrong? It states on that webpage that the gravity should never drop below 1.019?

I think you have done something wrong (or the spreadsheet is wrong).
I don't care how much sugar you dissolve in your sparge, you cannot get a gravity of either 1.4 or 0.4

-a.
 
I'll chime in late as a fly-sparging advocate - it's how I learned AG, and it feels old school. I like to set the grain bed once and let it ride. I haven't had any problem getting efficiencies over 80%, and I typically sparge too fast. I bet my efficiency would be even greater if I actually did the recommended 2+ hour fly sparge for 15 gallons.

I'm probably a bad influence here, as I've never batch sparged (never even watched it). However, I set my system up to fly sparge, and it works quite nicely.

Carry on the batch sparging discussion now...
 
I batch-sparged once and the beer came out incredible. It was my first AG batch and it went off without a hitch. It was an American Blueberry Wheat. No issues whatsoever. We are enjoying it quite nicely. If memory serves me I reached an efficiency of 79%. Not bad for first-timer and really easy to manage and handle.

My brother-in-law refuses to accept Batch Sparging. He is an old school brewer from back in the day and says that BS is rediculous and a waste of good sugars. He is caught up on the stirring up the bed part, as most FSers are.

Too each their own. Either way, you are brewing an awesome beer no matter how you sparge.

What is a Pirates favorite part of brewing?






SPARRRRRRRging.

- WW
 
perry said:
I wondered if others were grappling with the same issue (I mean, the issue of hoisting ten gallons of sparge water)... I 'm still doing that. I fill a cooler full of 180 degree water (it's 170 by the time it hits the grainbed) and press that sucker to the top of my serving fridge. I will be able to do this for another ten years or so, and then... well, by then I'll have a four-tiered series of platforms of some kind and a ladder! And a bad back. Cheers -p
Buy a pump. :D
 
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