Fat Tire Clone

well, it looks more like a stout in the pic, but it ain't! take a look in my gallery. too big to addin the post. plus you can check out the homebrewtalk.com sticker on my keg fridge. pretty cool.

THE CURSE OF PANDORA'S BOX CONTINUES!

Mine still isn't in the bottles. I'm so far behind on bottling this one, the batch right behind it (my 80/-) is also due to be bottled, so I was going to have a 2-batch bottling night yesterday.

I went to the LHBS because I was a little short on bottle caps and flippie seals and I also wanted to pick up some no-rinse sanitizer (I refuse to rinse 2 batches worth of bottles in one evening.)

Anyway, while I was there, I picked up a few other items. In total, I had three bags of merchandise. I grabbed my bags, drove off, and picked up some things for SWMBO at the grocery store before heading home. I carried the groceries inside when I got home and left the brew stuff in the car.

After the kiddies were in bed, I went out to get my things from the car and realized that I had only TWO bags of my stuff. The bag that was missing contained; bottle caps, flippie seals, and my idophor.

@^%^#@!

My LHBS doesn't open up again until Thursday, so I'm kind of stuck. I might be able to get one batch bottled, but I'll be forced to use my b-brite sanitizer and rinse everything like normal.

This beer better be f*cking good, seeing as how the entire experience with it has been difficult.

-walker

Walker said:

This beer better be f*cking good, seeing as how the entire experience with it has been difficult.

-walker

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LOL.....it'll be wonderful!!!!

I wish you would hurry up and taste it though--I have about a half gallon (or possibly less) left in my keg after the brewday Saturday. If you don't hurry and taswte yours we won't have samples to compare against as we talk back and forth about what we would change!

Walker said:

After the kiddies were in bed, I went out to get my things from the car and realized that I had only TWO bags of my stuff. The bag that was missing contained; bottle caps, flippie seals, and my idophor.

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When it rains it pours! I popped in their Saturday for a new batch and somebody had just walked out leaving a bag of merchandise there. Had to doublecheck your post and make sure you were talking about Sunday, or I would have guessed it was you! Make sure you don't get the other guy's stuff when you go back. :cross:

BeeGee, you are correct.. I was in there SATURDAY, but didn't notice the stuff was missing until Sunday evening when it was too late.

Hell, we must have just missed each other at the shop. One of these days, we WILL meet.

-walker

Yeah, maybe lunch after the holidays, or I plan to pop in AB on Thursday evenings from now on. I should have snagged your bag and flaunted it on the board!

I wonder if you were in the shop at the same time as me? I came into the place while they were in the midst of a HUGE rush of customers. When I left, there were only a couple people remaining. I had a short conversation with some bearded guy about the idophor I was buying, then I left (without the idophor.)

-walker

ORRELSE said:

I wish you would hurry up and taste it though--I have about a half gallon (or possibly less) left in my keg after the brewday Saturday. If you don't hurry and taswte yours we won't have samples to compare against as we talk back and forth about what we would change!

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I promise I'll taste it tonight, regardless of whether I attempt to bottle it tonight. I don't know how well I'll be able to describe the flavor, though.

My case of Fat Tire from El Paso should have arrived this weekend. I saw my sis-in-law last night, but forgot to ask about the brew hey boyfriend was supposed to bring. I hope they didn't neglect to bring it! I'm counting on it for my comparison.

-waler

Walker said:

I wonder if you were in the shop at the same time as me? I came into the place while they were in the midst of a HUGE rush of customers. When I left, there were only a couple people remaining. I had a short conversation with some bearded guy about the idophor I was buying, then I left (without the idophor.)

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I think perhaps you had already left, as the bag was laying on the counter the whole time I was there. They were in another mad rush of customers when we got there, and when we left. The guys looked pretty harried! But good for business is good for me. I noticed they have some new grains now, including my new favorite - melanoidin malt.

Walker said:

I promise I'll taste it tonight, regardless of whether I attempt to bottle it tonight. I don't know how well I'll be able to describe the flavor, though.

My case of Fat Tire from El Paso should have arrived this weekend. I saw my sis-in-law last night, but forgot to ask about the brew hey boyfriend was supposed to bring. I hope they didn't neglect to bring it! I'm counting on it for my comparison.

-waler

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The only thing I think I will change in mine is drop the biscuit malt just a touch. Maybe not too. I dunno.

I definitely "think" mine is hoppier than the real stuff, but keep in mind I had Fat Tire before I turned into a beer snob. So back then I thought it was hoppy. My imagination wants it to be hoppy so I think this version fits in that frame of mind.
I had a dude over Saturday that tried it--not knowing it was homebrew, and said it was spot on. He thought it was actual Fat Tire. I'll take that FWIW, but it made me feel pretty damn good.

ORRELSE said:

I had a dude over Saturday that tried it--not knowing it was homebrew, and said it was spot on. He thought it was actual Fat Tire. I'll take that FWIW, but it made me feel pretty damn good.

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You gotta love those kinds of compliments.

We had people over for dinner last night (the sis-in-law, her boyfriend Ramone, and a buddy of his named Mario that took the time to help Ramone move all of his stuff up here from TX and then flew back out last night to go home.)

Due to my mother in law being here, I decided to break into my stout a little early (Was planning to hold out until december) so I had a 6er in the fridge when the dinner guests arrived.

Anyway, I was getting drinks ready, and I asked what people wanted; beer, wine, iced tea, soda, juice, water. Mario chose beer, and then I asked, "Pale Ale, India Pale Ale, Porter, or Stout". He selected stout.

At no point did anyone mention that it was homebrew, but I poured him a glass and brought it to the table with a nice thick brown head on it.

He downed that brew pretty quickly and then commented, "What kind of stout was that? It was really good and I want to remember the name."

I, naturally, beamed with pride and told him is was my homebrewed espresso stout.

He couldn't take any with him, but asked me to keep some until Xmas, because he'll be back for a visit then.

-walker

ORRELSE said:

I wish you would hurry up and taste it though

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tasted it (but still didn't get it into bottles!)

first thoughts:

bready. too bready? Maybe a tad. I think I agree with you on dropping the biscuit a little, but it DOES give it a unique signature and makes it stand out a bit amonst other beers. (I personally like to have one flavor stick out in most of my batches to make them more memorable; The coffee in my stout, the smoke in my 80/-, the bittering hops in my IPA, etc).

nutty. just slightly. It's a very nice companion to the bread flavor.

My hopping was identical to yours, ORRELSE, but I think I disagree about it being hoppier than the original. HOWEVER, mine had been sitting in the secondary for several weeks, so it might have had a chance to mellow out a bit. PLUS, like you, I haven't had a real Fat Tire in quite a while, so I don't really recall what is 'correct', so-to-speak.

edit: a second thought on the hops is that you are AG and do a full volume boil (thus extracting more from your hops.) I'm an extract brewer and only do a 3 to 3.5 gallon boil.

Color: a shade too dark. I blame this on my LME and use of slightly darker crystal malt (I used some 20 and some 40). It looks WAY to dark in the carboy, but in a glass it's pretty darn close I think.

Summary:

does it taste like Fat Tire? Not exactly, but it's pretty close. (This is my first clone brew, and I'm happy with it.)

would I change anything? Probably not. The biscuit sticks out a bit, but I think I like it.

I'll review again after it's been conditioned for a couple weeks.

-walker

edit: Ramone did NOT bring me any Fat Tire from TX. He claims he couldn't fit it into his car, but... COME ON! I'm SURE he had room for at least a 6'er in there. I'd be willing to accept it if he had admitted that he FORGOT to get it for me, but I simply don't buy the "no room in car" explanation.

I started this thread a while ago with the intentions of making a Fat Tire clone. Well, after a few detours and a couple batches squeezed inbetween, I'm finally getting the batch done this weekend. I'm using the recipe from Beer Captured with a few minor alterations. I modified the recipe for 5.5 gal instead of 5 and I am using White Labs Belgian Ale Yeast WLP550. I'm making the starter now. This will be my first 5 gallon all-grain Recipe is as follows:

8.75 lb. Belgian Pilsner 2-row
0.5 lb. Crystal 75
0.4 lb. Munich Malt
0.3 lb. Victory Malt
0.25 lb. Belgian Biscuit Malt

0.375 oz. Magnum (11%) 60 min
0.5 oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker (3.3%) 15 min
0.375 oz. Williamette (5%) 5 min

OG: 1.051
IBU: 22
SRM: 8.5

brewsmith said:

I'm using the recipe from Beer Captured with a few minor alterations. I modified the recipe for 5.5 gal instead of 5 and I am using White Labs Belgian Ale Yeast WLP550.

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What yeast does the Beer Captured recipe suggest?

I'm curious as to why you chose the Belgian Ale yeast for this, when the beer style is actually considered an American Amber.

If you are going for a belgian flavor along the lines of a dubbel or trippel, that yeast will work. It won't turn out clean like the Fat Tire should be for an authentic clone.

So many people get caught up in Fat Tire being a belgian style because it is brewed by New Belgium Brewing company.

It is obviously your choice--but I don't want you to be disappointed in the end result if you are going for an accurate clone.

ORRELSE said:

What yeast does the Beer Captured recipe suggest?

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Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II
Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale

ORRELSE said:

I'm curious as to why you chose the Belgian Ale yeast for this, when the beer style is actually considered an American Amber.

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Beer Captured calls it a Belgian-Style Pale Ale. Personally I don't like american ambers, but I do like Fat Tire. New Belgium calls it an "amber ale", but that's not what the BJCP nazis call it.

ORRELSE said:

So many people get caught up in Fat Tire being a belgian style because it is brewed by New Belgium Brewing company.

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I keep hearing that Fat Tire isn't anything like a belgian...guess that must be true because I haven't been to fond of begian's either.

El Pistolero said:

Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II
Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale

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Thanks.....

El Pistolero said:

Beer Captured calls it a Belgian-Style Pale Ale. Personally I don't like american ambers, but I do like Fat Tire. New Belgium calls it an "amber ale", but that's not what the BJCP nazis call it.

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What do the BJCP nazis call it?

ORRELSE said:

What do the BJCP nazis call it?

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16B - Belgian Pale Ale.

El Pistolero said:

16B - Belgian Pale Ale.

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That is really odd that Beer Captured calls for Belgian yeasts, when the head brewer at NB says to use a clean american strain. The clone recipe in Zymurgy says to use American Ale II. Supposedly that is straight from the brewmaster. All I know is the real Fat Tire doesn't have any of that belgian phenolic/banana-ish/typical belgian flavor. Using the beer captured suggestions won't be very authentic.

I agree...all accounts I've ever read specify a clean, US strain. A Belgian yeast won't get you there if you're trying to clone it. Might make for an interesting beer, though.

Sam75 said:

I agree...all accounts I've ever read specify a clean, US strain. A Belgian yeast won't get you there if you're trying to clone it. Might make for an interesting beer, though.

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Well I guess we'll see...I used WL Belgian Abbey Ale. Hope it's not too nasty...if it is I guess I could sue the Szamatulski's

my HBS called for WLP001. i agree w/ EP. i wish i would have used the Belgian strain, because mine is half-way there. it should be more like a dubbel (my clone, not the original). mines not biscuity enough.......

DeRoux's Broux said:

my HBS called for WLP001. i agree w/ EP. i wish i would have used the Belgian strain, because mine is half-way there. it should be more like a dubbel (my clone, not the original). mines not biscuity enough.......

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I'm confused. Do you want a belgian ale or a Fat Tire clone?

fat tire clone, but my HBS recipe isn't close. that's why i wondered if i should have used a belgian strain like those book clone recipe's call for. maybe that yeast strain helps the malty profile come out????
just playing devils advocate here....

I've never had Fat Tire, so I'm judging based on ORRELSE's clone which others said was very close. There was also quite a discussion on this same topic over on the green board, and the concensus amongst the Old Wise Ones was the same.

The Belgian yeasts have a flavor profile all their own, to include banana, clove, spicy phenols, etc. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you're after. But by most accounts, these are not characteristics of Fat Tire.

El P....don't worry, I'm sure it'll still be good!

Too late to turn back now! Starter's already done, grain is in the mash tun and sparge water is being heated as I type. Like you said, if it's not a clone, it should be at least good and interesting.

Some stats for the brew:
My first all grain 5 gallon batch
10.2 Lbs grain mashed at 149 for 90 min.
Collected 6.5 gallons of wort
60 min boil to reach 5.5 gal.
OG: 1.056 @ 83% Efficiency

I hope all future brews go as well as this went. This was one of the easiest brewing sessions. I thinks all of the extra time in mashing and waiting for things to come to a boil got me prepared for everything else plenty of time to spare. Update in a few weeks when it's ready. I'm planning a side-by-side comparison when it's finally bottled and conditioned.

Alright!

I just ordered the ingredients to do this one again. I decided the general consensus on it was pretty good, so the only thing I'm tweaking is using chocolate wheat (it intrigues me) instead of chocolate malt. Other than that, I'm not tweaking it at all from the last version I did. I'm going to see if I can get the same consistency in flavor seeing I thought it was a very drinkable "session" type beer.
It seems like a good one to have on tap all the time.

Here is the final recipe I am sticking with.

Fat Tire Cloner

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
10-B American Ale, American Amber Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 48
Min Clr: 10 Max Clr: 17 Color in SRM, Lovibond


Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.85
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.52
Anticipated SRM: 13.0
Anticipated IBU: 38.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
73.7 8.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Belgium 1.037 3
9.2 1.00 lbs. Munich Malt Belgium 1.038 8
4.6 0.50 lbs. Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 24
4.6 0.50 lbs. Crystal 10L America 1.035 10
4.6 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
2.3 0.25 lbs. Special Roast Malt America 1.033 40
0.9 0.10 lbs. Chocolate Wheat Malt Belgium 1.030 500

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
1.00 oz. Willamette Pellet 5.50 24.6 60 min
1.00 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 9.1 30 min
1.00 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 4.8 15 min
1.00 oz. Willamette Pellet 5.50 0.0 0 min


Yeast
WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico


Notes
Safale-56 is the yeast used for this batch.

2 lbs. of toasted 2 row(350 deg for 30 mins) should be used.
This recipe I didn't have time to do it, so 8 lbs of 2-row was used.

you'll dig the chocolate wheat grain. i use it in a bown ale.......
brew on!

Well, you guys mentioned that you should use an american strain for the Fat Tire clone, and I would now have to agree. I used the White Labs WLP 550 Belgian Ale yeast and there is definately a difference. I just transferred to secondary and had a taste. It's good, very good actually, but not an exact clone. I think the grain came close. The color seems about right. But the belgian yeast is considerably different. Gets bottled in two weeks. Side by side test in a month.

brewsmith said:

Well, you guys mentioned that you should use an american strain for the Fat Tire clone, and I would now have to agree. I used the White Labs WLP 550 Belgian Ale yeast and there is definately a difference. I just transferred to secondary and had a taste. It's good, very good actually, but not an exact clone. I think the grain came close. The color seems about right. But the belgian yeast is considerably different. Gets bottled in two weeks. Side by side test in a month.

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i guess my grain bill was off, because i'm not happy with mine either. next time, i need to try y'alls recipe. my HBS's was off.....

DeRoux's Broux said:

i guess my grain bill was off, because i'm not happy with mine either. next time, i need to try y'alls recipe. my HBS's was off.....

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I'm tellin' ya, try the recipe I posted. It doesn't get any closer than that, IMHO.

I changed the hops a little bit and now the bitterness isn't so harsh. Fat Tire isn't bitter, but it is right on the edge for the BMC crowd. Any more bitter and it probably wouldn't be as popular. That bready flavor puts it over the top.

That's my best effort to date, in fact, I'm brewing it again Thursday. The ingredients should be arriving this afternoon.

i sure will, because it looks a whole lot better. thanks orrelse!

EDIT 12/27: My family and I have been enjoying the first Fat Tire clone over Christmas (the recipe from Midwest Supplies, below). A month or so after the original tasting, the flavors have come together very nicely. The roasted flavor has mellowed, and the beer is far closer to a Fat Tire taste than originally reported. Nothing to report on recipe #2, as I am bottling it this weekend.

As others have noted, patience pays off!
============================

Just an FYI for folks brewing a Fat Tire clone...

I have done two extract versions of a Fat Tire clone. Both recipes differ somewhat, but taste fairly similar. The first recipe (with LME) had a subtle but noticeable roasted flavor, which differs from the original and the second recipe.

What I want to point out is that they are both substantially darker than the original. Fat Tire is a clear amber. Both of these resulted in clear but dark amber color, bordering on brown. Not a big deal, but brewers wanting the more "original" color might choose, for example, a lower degrees Lovibond or other specialty grain combination that lightens the end color. It doesn't really matter to me, but might to some folks, hence the mention.

For reference, the two recipes were:
#1 (a kit from Midwest Supplies):
6 lbs of Light malt extract, 8 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Caramel 120 L., 8 oz. Munich malt, 1 oz. Brewer’s Gold bittering hops, 1 oz. Saaz aroma hops, grain bag, priming sugar and yeast.

#2 (recipe from "Beer Captured," with a few substitutions per my local home brew store.)
8 oz US 80 o Crystal Malt, 6 oz. German Munich Malt, 4 oz US Victory malt, 3 oz. Belgian Miscuit malt, 4 lbs Alexanders Pale Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs Muntons Extra Light DME (note: I used all DME, about 5.7 lbs of Muntons Pale DME vs. the recipe)
1/3 oz Yakima Magnum 15% (5 HBU) - substituted Columbus, same HBU) - bittering
1/2 oz. German Hallertau Hersbrucker - flavor hop, 1 tsp Irish Moss, 1/4 oz. Willimette (aroma)

I used Belgian Ale White Labs liquid yeast for both.

Basic recipe for both: steep grains for 30 minutes @ 150 degrees, sparge with 1g 150 degree water, boil, add extract and bittering hops, boil 45 minutes, add flavoring hops and Irish Moss, boil 10 mins, add aroma hops, boil 5, cool, aerate, move to primary, etc.

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere in this thread, but I didn't read all the posts (111? Holy cow!).

Thor said:

#2 (recipe from "Beer Captured," with a few substitutions per my local home brew store.)
8 oz US 80 o Crystal Malt, 6 oz. German Munich Malt, 4 oz US Victory malt, 3 oz. Belgian Miscuit malt, 4 lbs Alexanders Pale Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs Muntons Extra Light DME (note: I used all DME, about 5.7 lbs of Muntons Pale DME vs. the recipe)
1/3 oz Yakima Magnum 15% (5 HBU) - substituted Columbus, same HBU) - bittering
1/2 oz. German Hallertau Hersbrucker - flavor hop, 1 tsp Irish Moss, 1/4 oz. Willimette (aroma)

I used Belgian Ale White Labs liquid yeast for both.

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I've got one close to this in secondary now...how close was the taste of yours to the original?

El P (get it? LP? HAHAHAHAHA!! I crack myself up! OK, I'm better now.)

That recipe is still in the primary, still actively fermenting. The wort tasted fairly similar to the original, and not as much roasted flavor, but of course it is too soon to tell. I'll follow up when I bottle.

The other recipe, while good, was heavier than the original, and had a subtle roasted ("charcoal") flavor, which is not like the original. Then again, I had a brew session with that one similar to a Three Stooges episode, so it might just be the brewer and not the recipe!

Thor said:

El P (get it? LP? HAHAHAHAHA!! I crack myself up! OK, I'm better now.)

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It fits...I've got a couple thousand LP's...some aren't even stereo.

Thousands of LPs? Very cool. I have to get my record player back up and running. One of these days...

By the way, I did not mean to infer that the first recipe was a bad beer. I just meant that it is not a perfect match for the original.

It is actually rather good, and a particularly good winter beer. Had one last night, in fact. It was a nice flavor for the cold snap we're having in TX (and, I understand, around the country).

Thor said:

It is actually rather good, and a particularly good winter beer. Had one last night, in fact. It was a nice flavor for the cold snap we're having in TX (and, I understand, around the country).

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Cold snap is right...it's 37° in the middle of the afternoon here. Dang near runned over a polar bear this morning...course he wuz gittin chased by a gator.

extract brew will be a litttle darker of a brew. sounds good though.