Batch sparging and Beersmith

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

FlyGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
3,604
Reaction score
232
Location
Calgary, Alberta
I haven't tried a full AG batch yet (only PM), but after hearing more about how easy a single infusion mash with batch sparging can be, I think I might give it a shot.

Everything I have read suggests batch sparging with a volume of water equal to the volume of water added at mash in (if I am interpretting this correctly). However, if I use Beersmith and select one of the default single infusion batch sparge profiles, the brewsheet instructs me to sparge with more water (i.e., the first sparge is the same volume as the mash, plus a second sparge volume that is equal to the amount required to bring up the boil volume to the required amount).

Sooo, after that lengthy intro, my question is: should I be running a second round of batch sparging, or should I just use that water to top up the kettle? I ask because I thought I had read that 'over-sparging' the grain led to problems, like tannin extraction.

Here is my example to illustrate:

Port O'Palmer Porter
Brew Type: All Grain
Style: Dry Stout
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Volume: 6.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Brewing Steps
Clean and prepare equipment.
-- Measure ingredients, crush grains.
-- Prepare 7.30 gal water for brewing
-- Prepare Ingredients for Mash
7.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain

2 min Mash Ingredients
Mash In: Add 2.73 gal of water at 169.6 F
60 min - Hold mash at 154.0 F for 60 min
-- Drain Mash Tun
-- Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 2.74 gal of 168.0 F water.
** Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 1.83 gal of 168.0 F water. *********
-- Add water to achieve boil volume of 6.00 gal
-- Estimated Pre-boil Gravity is: 1.039 SG with all grains/extracts added
Boil for 60 min Start to Boil.
-- Cool wort to fermentation temperature
-- Add water (as needed) to achieve volume of 5.00 gal
-- Siphon wort to primary fermenter and aerate wort.
 
Batch sparging is really very simple and the water calcs can be done without the aid of software. I read that and get more confused. You need to determine how much wort to collect for your beer first. You want to divide that by 2 and you get the sparges needed. The only thing is that on the intial mash you have to account for water absobtion by the grain and maybe some deadspace in the cooler that will not drain. You add additional water at the end of the hour to account for this so that your runnings are fairly equal.
If you read this page it is explained pretty thoroughly > http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

In this thread at posts 5-9 also has some good info on batch sparging. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=20113

If you decide to give it a shot make your efficiency in the 60-65 range as it takes a few runs to get the process running smooth and effeciently.
 
Blender said:
Batch sparging is really very simple and the water calcs can be done without the aid of software. I read that and get more confused. You need to determine how much wort to collect for your beer first. You want to divide that by 2 and you get the sparges needed. The only thing is that on the intial mash you have to account for water absobtion by the grain and maybe some deadspace in the cooler that will not drain. You add additional water at the end of the hour to account for this so that your runnings are fairly equal.

So I shouldn't worry about water to grain ratios (e.g., 1.25 qt/lb) even with varying sizes of grainbills? Just calculate the water needed (accounting for losses, grain absorption, etc.), divide it by two, and mash/sparge away? Hey, that *IS* easy.

Thanks.
 
No need to worry about the size of the grain bills, just use the same calcs. Many brewers use the 1.25 qt. per pound regardless of size. Then once you figure out how much grain absorbtion is and other losses your set. My absorbtion rate is about .15 qts. per pound.

It is a good idea to preheat your cooler with a gallon or so of hot water before mashing. Helps with temperature control.

I make 5.5 gallon batches so that when I transfer to the clearing carboy after fermentation I have a good 5 gallons of beer to bottle.
 
There is a little program out there also it's called mashcalc.exe you put in your ratio and rest Temp and it will tell you how much water to mash in and @ what temp, this is the best program I've seen so far for hitting your mash temp, no warming up the tun just right on the money every time so far, I use Beersmith and its always 5 degrees lower, I'm curious how much this would affect the first rest Temp, anyways good luck, It's not hard at all.
 
I used to worry about measuring my sparge water. Now I just know where I need to be in my kettle pre boil, and I sparge until I hit that mark.
 
If you want to have two equal runnings- you can mash in with a water to grist ratio (say 1.25 qts/lb) and then add enough water at the end of the mash so that you collect half your boil volume when you drain the mash. Then you can batch sparge once with enough water to collect the second half of your boil volume.
 
When I first started using Beersmith, I was stoked that it was giving me what looked to be great numbers for batch sparging - until I realized it was having me collect a huge, huge amount of wort.

The only problem with using your desired total runnings as your starting point (as I noted in the other thread, usually 7 - 7.5 gallons for me) is that for really BIG beers, your efficiency will suck. So, you have to either know to collect more on those, or factor in lower efficiency. My 1060 - 1065 beers have been 65% - 70% efficiency, my last ~1050 beer was almost 80%, so there will be a bit of a learning curve with your system.
 
the_bird said:
The only problem with using your desired total runnings as your starting point (as I noted in the other thread, usually 7 - 7.5 gallons for me) is that for really BIG beers, your efficiency will suck. So, you have to either know to collect more on those, or factor in lower efficiency. My 1060 - 1065 beers have been 65% - 70% efficiency, my last ~1050 beer was almost 80%, so there will be a bit of a learning curve with your system.

Thanks for the advice -- that is really helpful. I think I am understanding this process MUCH better now -- I sure appreciate everyone taking the time to help out!
 
the_bird said:
The only problem with using your desired total runnings as your starting point (as I noted in the other thread, usually 7 - 7.5 gallons for me) is that for really BIG beers, your efficiency will suck. So, you have to either know to collect more on those, or factor in lower efficiency. My 1060 - 1065 beers have been 65% - 70% efficiency, my last ~1050 beer was almost 80%, so there will be a bit of a learning curve with your system.
I'm not quite sure I follow why your efficiency was so much lower for the bigger beers.

Are you saying that beersmith was calculating that you collect say 8.5 gallons of wort? That in fact may be true, no matter what sparge method you use. I know for big beers, often people collect a lot of wort and then boil for longer than an hour to get the volume back down.
 
Efficiency sucked because I didn't collect as much wort as I should have (and as BeerSmith told me to). Didn't want to do a huge boil, so I eneded up sacrificing some efficiency points.
 
the_bird said:
The only problem with using your desired total runnings as your starting point (as I noted in the other thread, usually 7 - 7.5 gallons for me) is that for really BIG beers, your efficiency will suck. So, you have to either know to collect more on those, or factor in lower efficiency. My 1060 - 1065 beers have been 65% - 70% efficiency, my last ~1050 beer was almost 80%, so there will be a bit of a learning curve with your system.


Well sounds to me like you are assuming that everyone uses a hydrometer in the first place. :mug:

cheers
 
Chimone said:
Well sounds to me like you are assuming that everyone uses a hydrometer in the first place. :mug:

cheers

And so you should. How can you know efficiency? How you're beer will turn out? If its finished?
Hell I believe you can even forecast the weather and tell what time of day it is with a hydrometer.:D
 
I was hit-or-miss with the hydrometer when doing extract, but I check consistently with AG. I try to develop my own recipes, so it's the only way of being able to dial in my system. I know, now, that big beers, I'll probably get around 70% unless I sparge a ton, small beers close to 80%; that influences how much malt I'm using. I'm using my O2 system for the first time this weekend; I'd like to know it's impact on attenuation, that may also come into play down the line if I'm trying to brew something particularly dry or sweet.

Hell, I think even - GASP! - Walker's using a hydrometer now that he's gone the AG route. :D
 
orfy said:
And so you should. How can you know efficiency? How you're beer will turn out? If its finished?
Hell I believe you can even forecast the weather and tell what time of day it is with a hydrometer.:D


I know the efficiency of my system. I don't need a hydrometer for that.

I purposely did diferent gravity beers to notice any changes in efficiency I may of had.

I know when my beer is done. I don't need a hydrometer for that either.Knowing my efficiency will do anything for me right now other than make me worry. It is what it is. Taking a hydrometer reading isn't going to change the fact that I may have gotten 72% efficiency or 75%. It's not going to change the fact that my yeast attenuated 67% or 72%. This is the joy of homebrewing for me.....My beer is in control of the fermentation process, all i can do is give it the best conditions along the way.
 
Did you use a hydrometer when you were first starting, though? How else could you have dialed in your system? That's really what I'm talking about.
 
the_bird said:
Did you use a hydrometer when you were first starting, though? How else could you have dialed in your system? That's really what I'm talking about.


well yes of course....I used it to learn my system. Now I no longer need to.
 
Then we're arguing different things. If you have your setup and are consistent, that's fine, but for me (and the OP, who's doing his first mash), you need to build up that base of knowledge before ditching it. I doubt I'll ever stop taking gravity readings, although I'll graduate to a refractometer at some point for simplicity.
 
I use Beersmith as well and as I learn more about my setup and how I can make it work better, I am going in and adjusting the water values for the mash so that it's more accurate. At first, I think it was a little over the top, but I'm still learning how to do AG and I'll probably be playing with the numbers for years.
 
Back
Top