Making A Black & Tan

Antler · May 24, 2012

Well after having a bottle of Mississippi Mud last night I think I might try to make a clone. How would you ferment this?

1. Combine both worts and pitch two yeasts, one porter one pilsner?

2. Ferment both beers completely separate, and combine before bottling/kegging?

3. Primary separately and combine For secondary?

I'm leaning towards options 2 or 3, with those ill end up with 5g of black & tan, 2.5 gallons of porter and 2.5 gallons of pilsner.

JeffersonJ · May 24, 2012

Of those options, I would go with route 2.

Technically, a true black & tan isn't combined until you pour them together into a glass. The only thing I've ever disliked about that is that it requires at least two bottles of beer (not always a bad thing!).

Golddiggie · May 24, 2012

No issue if you keg.

I've been wondering, which brew goes on the bottom?? Does the lower FG brew go on top??

JeffersonJ · May 24, 2012

Golddiggie said:
No issue if you keg.

I've been wondering, which brew goes on the bottom?? Does the lower FG brew go on top??

True on the kegging!

And yep, the lower FG brew goes on top. Traditionally with a Guinness and a Bass, the Guinness goes on top. One would hope that your brews come out the same (with your stout/porter at a lower FG).

solbes · May 24, 2012

Brew them up separate, and package them separate. Then split the two between 2 glasses. I don't think you'd get this to work very well by packaging them together.

Agree on having 2 different keg taps would remove the issue of having to double up always.

JeffersonJ · May 24, 2012

One thing about the commercial examples of a Black & Tan (Yuengling, Mississippi Mud, etc.) is that they are almost definitely force carbed. I don't think you'll get the same results with natural carbonation as both yeasts will work on the priming sugar (assuming you natural carb).

Also, one of the great things about a black & tan mixed in a glass is that the carbonation of the lighter beer is typically much higher than the carbonation of the darker beer. It leads to really interesting mouthfeel.

Antler · May 24, 2012

solbes said:
Brew them up separate, and package them separate. Then split the two between 2 glasses. I don't think you'd get this to work very well by packaging them together.

Agree on having 2 different keg taps would remove the issue of having to double up always.

The beer I had was bottled together, I liked it. I ordered my kegging equipment a few days ago. I won't be brewing again for 3 weeks. I generally primary for 2 weeks and secondary for 3-4. So by the time this would be ready for bottling I could probable have my keezer setup.

Golddiggie · May 24, 2012

Antler said:
The beer I had was bottled together, I liked it. I ordered my kegging equipment a few days ago. I won't be brewing again for 3 weeks. I generally primary for 2 weeks and secondary for 3-4. So by the time this would be ready for bottling I could probable have my keezer setup.

I'd plan to give the brew longer in primary when kegging. Especially since it will be going directly to keg and then to the fridge for chill and carbonating. You won't have those three extra weeks at room temp to further condition.

Antler · May 24, 2012

Golddiggie said:
I'd plan to give the brew longer in primary when kegging. Especially since it will be going directly to keg and then to the fridge for chill and carbonating. You won't have those three extra weeks at room temp to further condition.

What do you mean I won't have those extra 3 weeks at room temp?

Golddiggie · May 24, 2012

Antler said:
What do you mean I won't have those extra 3 weeks at room temp?

Carbonating in a keg, via CO2 (from a tank/regulator) is done at serving temperature. Which is usually in the 36-46F range. The more stable/easy method is to just connect it up to the CO2, put it at serving pressure (in the fridge) and leave it alone for two weeks. At the lower temperatures conditioning happens at a significantly slower rate.

I would hold off on kegging the brew until it's 100% ready to drink except for carbonation. That could mean needing another week, month or several of either. Taste samples will tell you when its ready.

BTW, I've come to love dry hopping pale ales in keg. I add an ounce of whole hops to 3 gallons in keg (that's the keg size I have/use) and then put it right into the brew fridge. 24 hours later I connect it to the gas for carbonating (helps things if the brew is cold before you start the CO2 infusion). Two weeks later I pour a pint and have something really great to enjoy. The dry hop addition is a lot more stable this way too.

Antler · May 24, 2012

Golddiggie said:
Carbonating in a keg, via CO2 (from a tank/regulator) is done at serving temperature. Which is usually in the 36-46F range. The more stable/easy method is to just connect it up to the CO2, put it at serving pressure (in the fridge) and leave it alone for two weeks. At the lower temperatures conditioning happens at a significantly slower rate.

I would hold off on kegging the brew until it's 100% ready to drink except for carbonation. That could mean needing another week, month or several of either. Taste samples will tell you when its ready.

BTW, I've come to love dry hopping pale ales in keg. I add an ounce of whole hops to 3 gallons in keg (that's the keg size I have/use) and then put it right into the brew fridge. 24 hours later I connect it to the gas for carbonating (helps things if the brew is cold before you start the CO2 infusion). Two weeks later I pour a pint and have something really great to enjoy. The dry hop addition is a lot more stable this way too.

Thanks for the comments, love this stuff.

As I said I usually primary for 2 weeks, secondary for 3. So you think I should leave it in secondary for longer?

Golddiggie · May 24, 2012

Antler said:
Thanks for the comments, love this stuff.

As I said I usually primary for 2 weeks, secondary for 3. So you think I should leave it in secondary for longer?

I don't use secondary for virtually all my brews. I sometimes rack to an aging vessel when it makes perfect sense. Such as moving onto some oak for 3+ months. Otherwise I'll just let it sit in primary until it goes to keg.

Antler · May 24, 2012

I know a lot of people don't secondary. I learned to brew with kits and have always used a secondary. I've never had an infection issue post-primary, so I guess I'm with the minority that choose to do it. Thanks for the replies!

Golddiggie · May 24, 2012

I use yeast that's rated at least 'high' for flocculation so it settles really nice in primary. I get a nice solid yeast cake in primary so it's no issue to rack right to keg. I've also modified my sanke fermenters with a gas ball lock post on them, and have TC caps fitted with either thermowells and liquid posts or just liquid posts (for fermenting and extracting the finished product). Using CO2 to push the brew from fermenter to keg means no lifting/moving of the fermenter. I also fill the keg via it's liquid post, so nothing else goes into the keg besides beer when filling it.

Just remember, you CHOOSE to rack to a brite tank for your brews.

For those that say they do it in order to free up a primary fermenter... Get more fermenters already...

Antler · May 24, 2012

I've been wanting to try a long primary to see how it goes, I don't have the means to cold crash if that makes a difference. I guess I just like to watch the beer clear in the carboy. I rarely have more than 2 batches going at once, maybe I should sell my buckets and carboys and get a couple V Vessels.

mewithstewpid · May 25, 2012

Olde burnside brewery here in CT makes "dirty penny ale" which is sold in growlers and is a blend of Their Scottish ale and stout. It's fantastic.

Therefore, I'd go with option 2, separate fermentations and then blend at bottling. I know olde burnside uses the same yeast for each brew if that helps.

mewithstewpid · May 25, 2012

mewithstewpid said:
Olde burnside brewery here in CT makes "dirty penny ale" which is sold in growlers and is a blend of Their Scottish ale and stout. It's fantastic.

Therefore, I'd go with option 2, separate fermentations and then blend at bottling. I know olde burnside uses the same yeast for each brew if that helps.

also, the website says it is 60% scottish ale, 40% stout

http://www.oldeburnsidebrewing.com/ourbrews.html

alexdagrate · May 25, 2012

I highly recommend using a Brutul Lagerhead Turtle Spoon for pouring Black & Tans and other layered drinks.

Hammy71 · May 25, 2012

I've mad black and tans in the past and just put half and half in kegs. Worked fine. Not as pretty as a draft poured one, but came out like Yinglings'. My friends loved the bottled ones.

Golddiggie · May 25, 2012

With what I have on tap, right now, I'd have a porter on the bottom with my MO SMaSH on top... Thinking about trying that out tonight in fact... I do have the pour 'spoon' already, so no worries there.

Making A Black & Tan

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