Munich/Vienna in an IPA?

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bigears

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Hi there,

I'm wondering if anyone has used more than a handful of Vienna or Munich in an IPA and what the results have been? I have some of both to use up and would like to get an idea of how they would contribute.

My recipe is going to be along these lines (measurments may look odd as I've converted from kilos & grams). This will yield somewhere around 10 US gallons after the boil based on 70% efficiency. I'm quite open to the beer having a malty backbone but I haven't used much Vienna or Munich so I'm curious to know if these additions will keep the beer roughly in style. I'd appreciate any feedback :)

Original Gravity: 1.064
Color: 11.1
Bitterness: 60

Ingredients:
20.94 lbs Maris Otter (74.2%)
4.4 lbs Munich Malt (15.6%)
2.2 lbs Vienna Malt (7.8%)
0.66 lbs Wheat Malt (2.3%)
1.76 oz Warrior (16.4%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.06 oz Columbus (13.7%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
0.88 oz Columbus (13.7%) - added during boil, boiled 0 min

Dry hop with Columbus

Yeast: US 05
 
Sounds good. Normally I would use some Crystal but I think using some Munich/Vienna might provide enough malty sweetness to drop the Crystal - is this something you would go along with?
 
The Munich gives maltiness without necessarily being sweet - which I think is perfect for an IPA. I'll still use a little crystal, but not very much.
 
I used Munich once in an IPA (10.5# Maris Otter, 1.5# Munich, 0.25# Crystal 55L with 5 oz Cascades for 5 US gallons). OG was 1.074, FG 1.013. Bitterness was good, hop flavor was (and still is) great. Hop aroma was great, but has since faded somewhat.
There were two major problems with this brew.
First, I screwed up on the priming sugar addition, resulting in an under carbonated brew (even by English standards).
Second, it has an overpoweringly malty flavor which I can only attribute to the Munich. Chilling to American temperatures helps to reduce this problem, but accentuates the under carbonation.
Ray Daniels in Designing Great Beers, recommends keeping the additions of Munich, Vienna, and other character malts to "up to 5% of the grist".
Next time I try a similar brew, I'll reduce the Munich to 0.5#, replace the 10.5# of Maris Otter with 11.5# Pearle, and pay more attention to the priming sugar.

-a.
 
I like my ipa's to have more hop flavour and aroma and would change to low alpha hops (cascade, goldings but prefer saaz D or saaz B being from New Zealand) and around 100-150 grams late in the boil.
 
Thanks for all the comments. I think I'll go ahead and do something along the lines of the recipe above. I've done a few IPAs with a pale/crystal grain bill and Cascade/Amarillo combinations recently so I'd like to experiment a little. I don't mind the beer being malty as the hops will balance that out. I may up the aroma addition though, I am looking a little light in that respect. I plan to split the brew in two for fermentation, using US 05 in one half and S 04 in the other, I'll probably dry hop half with an American aroma hop and the other half with an English hop.
 
Just a FWIW and to build off AFJ's point...I had a double IPA at a local brewpub last night that had a considerable amount of munich and crystal that was just awful...way too sweet with way too much body and an awful combo of cloying sweetness and hop bitterness in the finish that was just unpleasant. Be careful of crossing that line.
 
I use just a bit under 14% Vienna in my IPA along with about 7% Crystal 20. I find that the combination of the two leave some maltiness that lets the beer finish nice and dry without being sweet or cloying.
 
Just a FWIW and to build off AFJ's point...I had a double IPA at a local brewpub last night that had a considerable amount of munich and crystal that was just awful...way too sweet with way too much body and an awful combo of cloying sweetness and hop bitterness in the finish that was just unpleasant. Be careful of crossing that line.

I think you'll find that that was much more the fault of the crystal than the Munich. I'm not a fan of sweet beers, especially sweet IPAs, but I love the (non-sweet) maltiness that the Munich brings to the table. My next IPA may well be just base malt, Munich, and NO crystal.
 
I think you'll find that that was much more the fault of the crystal than the Munich. I'm not a fan of sweet beers, especially sweet IPAs, but I love the (non-sweet) maltiness that the Munich brings to the table. My next IPA may well be just base malt, Munich, and NO crystal.

I think it is too much crystal combined w/ the munich then toss in a relatively high FG and you get an overly malty & sweet trainwreck.
 
Victory's HopDevil IPA uses Vienna Malt exclusively as its base malt, so it's definitely something that can be done (using lots of Vienna malt) with good results.
 
a friend of mine just made a belgian munich/mt. hood SMaSH and i've made a german munich/EKG SMaSH.

both had plenty of malty sweetness on their own...a little on the sweet side actually (but still very well balanced and tasty.) i would NOT add crystal to a beer with a munich base malt.

my vienna SMaSH brews, however, have had a nice maltiness without even a hint of cloying sweetness.
 
In the end I went with

80% Marris Otter,
10% Munich,
6% Crystal 60
4% Wheat

I brewed it on Saturday, initial sneaky samples don't taste too sweet but I'll let you know how it turns out :)
 
I love Munich malt in pale ales and IPAs, especially if it is in the English style where a malt profile is more pronounced. One thing to watch out for, however, is if you intend to brew these ales in the American style for a competition. Large additions of Munich or Vienna add a distinct malt flavour and aroma. In most American styles, these are fine up to the point where they start to compete with hop flavour and aroma, especially in the American IPA category. Some judges might actually ding you for too LOW hop aroma/flavour if they perceive enough maltiness (even if your recipe had large hop additions). If you are not brewing for competition, then add away!
 
I enjoy what I think of as 'Anglo American' IPAs with some malt character and American hops such as Goose Island and Snake Dog, so hopefully this will be a similar style.
 
I did an IPA with 2lbs of 8L munich only for color. It turned out absolutely fantastic. I had previously done several batches of PAs with carmel malts, so for my IPA, I wanted to try something different.

-Paul
 
I have an IPA planned with
50% Otter
30% Vienna
20% Munich

Now its odd but ive been requested to brew a beer with a distinct deep gold color.
Any advice? Ive not done a gold beer to be honest.


Just realised I was on a post from google. And didn't check the date. 2008! Balls.
 
Cazamodo, no worries about resurrecting an old thread.. I was about to do so myself.

How did things turn out? My last IPA was:

9lbs pale (~70%)
3lbs munich (~25%)
0.5lbs carared (~5%)

After brewing, I thought I had diacetyl or some other off flavor, but it turned out to be heavy toffee/malt aroma and flavor from my grain bill. It was interesting, but not what I was expecting in my IPA. I liked the rest of the recipe (the hop bill), and the color was amazing, but I think I'm going to decrease the Munich for the next batch down to about 15% or so.

The guys are MoreBeer actually really liked it. I brought a bottle in (they're local) and asked them to tell me what my off-flavor was. Turns out it wasn't "off" heh. I think it's psychological for me now. Because I wasn't expecting it, I don't care for it, and don't want to repeat that precise recipe.
 
There are a number of Munich Malts from various maltsters, each having their unique flavor contribution.
Looking at my recipes, 10% seems to be typical. If you used Gambrinous, it's one of the darkest versions and 25% would be a strong amount. The good news is you know what to do in the next batch.
 
Funny thing, I actually miss it now. It really got rave reviews from my friends too. Several said it was one of the best IPAs they'd ever tasted, and now I'm thinking of rebrewing it exactly as I did before.
 
My IPA is about 83% pale ale malt, 12% Vienna and 5% 30-37 Carastan. I feel like I could move those numbers around a bit one way or the other and still be totally happy with the product. I think Vienna goes great in IPA and Munich would as well, though I haven't used it in an IPA in many years
 
I like a 5:1 ratio of 2-row to Vienna. It has more body that just straight pale malt, adds a hint of color but the Vienna doesn't add too much sweetness.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Adding another vote in favor of Vienna - I use about 17% Vienna in my IPA mash; 3% C-20, 3% dextrine and the rest 2 row. I am very happy with it for IPAs.
 
I go even further than most, using approximately 2/3 2-row to 1/3 Munich 10 Lovibond for my IPA/APA grists with zero crystal malt. Good color, much more malt flavor than just using 2-row, and not at all sweet, which I detest in these styles. Vienna is nice too, but I prefer the bread character of Munich in this style as I feel the toastiness of Vienna malt is subtle and can more easily be lost when the hop character gets intense.
 
Earlier this year (on New Year's Day, actually), I brewed an all-Vienna, all-Simcoe SMaSH IPA that turned out to be one of the best IPAs I've ever made. I'm actually re-brewing it again this weekend, it turned out fantastic. I highly recommend you give the combination a try.
 
Every IPA I have ever made has had Vienna and Munich in it. I tried it on my first IPA and liked it so much that I have been hesitant to try anything else. It is wonderful. You get a small amount of malt complexity without the cloying sweetness that can be found in high crystal IPA's. I may fool around with wheat, choclate malt, Rye, honey malt, etc. But Crystal is for the birds as far as IPA's go, IMO.
 
Resurrecting this thread, but I am planning an IPA with Simcoe, Amarillo, and Chinook that will have half Maris Otter and half Munich 10l. I love malt flavor and I am not ashamed.
 
I think 100% Vienna would make a fine IPA. Maybe add a *tiny* bit of Midnight Wheat or Carafa III or roasted barley to adjust the color.

I did a 100% Vienna IPA w/ Azzaca hops this summer and it turned out quite good.
 
Sorry I'm bringing this back one more time.

I'm doing an AIPA and looking to use this malt bill:

2-Row: 12.7lbs (89%)
Munich 10L: 1.6lbs (11%)

I'm looking to make a very dry IPA, thats about 6 SRM. I'm looking to mash pretty low to make that happen. But will that much Munich make too pronounced of a malt flavor?
 
My opinion is that 11% Munich in an otherwise all 2-row will not give you much sweetness/malt flavor. It will be a subtle effect. If you want to get the 6 SRM without any residual malt, you can use an ounce or so of Roast Barley, and just 2 row and adjunct (e.g. wheat) to ensure you won't get any sweetness at all.
 
I add 8oz of Munich and 8oz of crystal/5 gal in all of my IPA recipe's. Kegs always go empty!
 

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