Coupling Guide for HERMS Brewtroller System

Hey all,

I'm a new brewer in Philadelphia, currently looking to put together a HERMS system using the brewtroller for automation. First off, this is an unbelievable site. The DIY crowd here is outstanding.

I've been reading build threads for the past few days, and have come across a huge range of options for setups. The one thing I haven't been able to find is a comprehensive list of fittings that one might need in a HLT, MLT and BK. (I'm looking to make a fitting order for all parts in the next couple of days, and want to be prepared to take a look at my budget and plan accordingly.)

Here's what I have so far, based on what I've been looking at. I would love some guidance, especially input on any fittings I might be missing. I'd like to get a list for a no-holds-barred, unlimited price brewery, so I can scale down from there.

HLT:

• HERMS coil in
• HERMS coil out
• Ball valve
• Temperature gauge
• Thermowell for Brewtroller probe
• Sight glass

MLT:

• Sparge in, from HERMS coil (or does this go into a twirling sparge arm manifold mounted above?)
• Ball valve for mash out
• Temperature gauge
• Thermowell for Brewtroller probe
• Sight glass

BK:

• Ball valve for wort out
• Sight glass
• thermowell for brewtroller probe
• Temperature gauge
• internal immersion chiller in
• internal immersion chiller out

Am I missing anything? Of these, what would you all recommend cutting out, for a Brewtroller automated HERMS build (starting with the immersion chiller mounted in the boil kettle)?

Thanks, all, really looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Check out the brewtroller site for the schematic for automated EHERMS system. If you're not familiar with terms for electronics better start brushing up. I'm basing my system off of this drawing for starters. It has all of the plumbing and wiring laid out pretty well and should give you an idea what to look for as far as fittings goes. One thing I'm doing instead of a sight glass is doing the pressure sensors, more info can be found on the brewtroller forums for this as well.

Good Luck!

That's awesome! I'm an engineer, so I've got the electronics part down... I'm a bit worried that I'm going overboard in this direction, and not putting enough time into learning how to craft a fantastic recipe. I suppose that once this project is done, there will be quite a bit of time to sample away.

Thanks so much!

Welcome to the board!

Since you are an engineer you'll appreciate the fine control a system like this will give you.

Your beers will likely be more consistent, and predictable. There are other variables related to fermentation, hops and grain, but in general a system that you are considering will reduce the variables in wort production.

Your skills in brewing will actually improve faster, since you will not be spending as much time and effort on attending to temperature monitoring or moving fluids.

Of course the same results can happen with a Gott cooler and turkey fryer, but the folks doing that has gone through many iterations to perfect their methods.

You in essence will be fast forwarding your skills and be able to focus on recipe formulation.

EuBrew said:

Check out the brewtroller site for the schematic for automated EHERMS system. If you're not familiar with terms for electronics better start brushing up. I'm basing my system off of this drawing for starters. It has all of the plumbing and wiring laid out pretty well and should give you an idea what to look for as far as fittings goes. One thing I'm doing instead of a sight glass is doing the pressure sensors, more info can be found on the brewtroller forums for this as well.

Good Luck!

Click to expand...

I designed that HERMS and drew it up in AutoCAD for the Brewtroller site.

Do you need a physical thermometer in addition to brewtroller probes? I assume you can get real time temperature readouts on the BT display.

Sight glass in the MLT is not necessary unless you like to fill it with strike water directly from the hose.

I would never mount an IC in my kettle. Way too much surface area to clean.

Is this going to be an electrically heated system? If so, I highly suggest bottom drains.

Bobby_M said:

Do you need a physical thermometer in addition to brewtroller probes? I assume you can get real time temperature readouts on the BT display.

Sight glass in the MLT is not necessary unless you like to fill it with strike water directly from the hose.

I would never mount an IC in my kettle. Way too much surface area to clean.

I agree with this big time!

Is this going to be an electrically heated system? If so, I highly suggest bottom drains.

Click to expand...

Do you need a physical thermometer in addition to brewtroller probes? I assume you can get real time temperature readouts on the BT display.

You are correct. No additional thermometers are needed. The display is updated every 300 mS.

Sight glass in the MLT is not necessary unless you like to fill it with strike water directly from the hose.

If he uses a Brewtroller he can read volume on the Brewtroller using Motorola Pressure Sensors.

I would never mount an IC in my kettle. Way too much surface area to clean.

I couldn't agree with this more.

Is this going to be an electrically heated system? If so, I highly suggest bottom drains.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for me, I have to use gas as I have not had my service increased yet and I wish I could use bottom drains. It's a big advantage.

Sawdustguy said:

Is this going to be an electrically heated system? If so, I highly suggest bottom drains.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for me, I have to use gas as I have not had my service increased yet and I wish I could use bottom drains. It's a big advantage.

Click to expand...

Do you recommend bottom drains in all 3 kettles, or just HLT and MLT?
As you know I'm getting close on my electrical design, but I haven't started on the keggles yet.

Okay, this makes sense. Interesting about the bottom drains. I'm in a Philly apartment as of now, and don't have the amperage for an electric system, so have to go with propane, at least for now. (sawdustguy, thanks for your schematic on this. My hurricane burner finally arrived, so I'll be setting up temperature control with the brewtroller this coming week.

About the pressure sensors, do you guys use these to track volume throughout the boil, or just at the initial transfer? It seems that the fluctuating temperatures would throw the system off, without a controlled volume. (and now, off to do some research.)

Thanks again for your help, all!

With the pressure sensor level measurement you need two correction factors. temperature/density, and specific gravity start/finish for mashing and boiling. If you can recalculate these factors as the process runs then the level sensors will be reasonably accurate.

EuBrew said:

Do you recommend bottom drains in all 3 kettles, or just HLT and MLT?
As you know I'm getting close on my electrical design, but I haven't started on the keggles yet.

Click to expand...

Absolutely for an Electric System.

sritchie09 said:

About the pressure sensors, do you guys use these to track volume throughout the boil, or just at the initial transfer? It seems that the fluctuating temperatures would throw the system off, without a controlled volume. (and now, off to do some research.)

Thanks again for your help, all!

Click to expand...

Kevin (Kladue) is correct, he is the expert on this stuff. Luckily he is a member here because I and a lot of others here go to him for help all the time. If you go with a Brewtroller those calculations are built into the software. The Brewtroller is a nice simple automation platform for process control rookies like me. The brewtroller is looking at a ARM9 based board with touch screen for the next Brewtroller generation. Development and support will continue for the Sanguino Platform based Brewtroller though. I believe Kevin has one of these little ARM9 SBC's. My nephew teaches mobile platform software development at Sacred Heart University in Connecticut and he has based the course around the ARM9 and ARM11. Maybe he can teach his uncle Guy.

FWIW here is the temperature compensation formula
in Java.
double bkIn = DataObject.boilKettleTemp;
double bkReset = 1000 / (1000.1325 * (1 - (bkIn + 288.9414) / (508929.2 * (bkIn + 68.12963)) * Math.pow((bkIn - 3.9863), 2)));
I/O line
DataObject.boilKettleLevel = ((int) ((((Integer.parseInt(analogIn.substring(4, 8), 16) - 4096) * (SettingsObject.boilKettleLevelScaleFactor) + SettingsObject.boilKettleLevelOffsetValue) * bkReset) * 100.00)) / 100.00;
And in C#
double bkIn = DataObject.boilKettleTemp;
double bkReset = 1000 / (1000.1325 * (1 - (bkIn + 288.9414) / (508929.2 * (bkIn + 68.12963)) * System.Math.Pow((bkIn - 3.9863), 2)));
I/O line
DataObject.boilKettleLevel = ((int) ((((System.Convert.ToInt32(analogIn.ToString(4, 8), 16) - 4096) * (SettingsObject.boilKettleLevelScaleFactor) + SettingsObject.boilKettleLevelOffsetValue) * bkReset) * 100.00)) / 100.00;
The I/O is built for Opto 22 hardware and 4-20Ma interface.