What were southern beers like before refrigeration?

I am pretty new to brewing Ales and I had fun making a Pilsner. I read about California Common beers, and how it is made with lager yeasts, but at warmer temperatures as it simply didn't get cold in California before the advent of refrigeration.

Question is - where Pilsners also made in other southern states? Did they brew something like a California Common beer as well? Or did they stick with Ales? If you were in the Southern States in the late 1800's, early 1900's - what kind of beer would be available?

Cellaring below ground level. They would have been to able to keep temps in the 40's and 50's.

My guess would be ales. The Germans brought the lagers over to the Midwest, it might not have made it that far south.

Then again everyone probably just drank whiskey.

You know, that makes sense. A lot of this region was settled by people from England and Scotland. I'm not sure about German immigration to the South. I'd guess since there was a large Scottish influence, that Ales would be the major drink. (we'll not talk about that other stuff, lol).

It was Kentucky Common in this area prior to prohibition

More info and my recipe here (still working on the site):

O'Daniel's Kentucky Common 1902

oh, and also the "Cream Common"

O'Daniel's Cream Common

IrregularPulse said:

Cellaring below ground level. They would have been to able to keep temps in the 40's and 50's.

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No. At least not in Florida. Maybe in the northern "southern" states.

passedpawn said:

No. At least not in Florida. Maybe in the northern "southern" states.

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In the more northern parts of Florida you might have had a basement/cellar, but forget about the lower 1/2-2/3 of the state... Average elevation of FL is below sea level.

They probably would have brewed in the cooler months, and done what they had to for storage in the warmer/hot months. So, beer could have been more seasonal, while whiskey was all year round...

i was watching this show on netflicks the other day that was saying alot of people drank cider when the country was first developing. because apples were available and cider was cleaner than water and all that.( they didnt really talk about beer, so im not sure) but other than that i think the wiskey idea seems pretty likely too.

Golddiggie said:

Average elevation of FL is below sea level.

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Not true. Where did you come up with that?

i dont really know how long they've been around, but i know muscadine wines are pretty traditional around here too. if you find out anything post it up here, its pretty interesting to me too, being from south carolina

passedpawn said:

Not true. Where did you come up with that?

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When I was in school down there... From about '86-97 I lived in that hell-hole... If I recall it was about 3' below sea level... Maybe it was just the county I was in, or they've since mapped more of the state... Still, it's average elevation is LOW when you think about it... I do know that there are plenty of areas in FL that are below sea level...

I plan to NEVER go back down to FL again... Too F'ing hot too much of the year for me to enjoy it... Especially if you're not on one of the barrier islands, or on the coast (east coast)...

Not sure about some of the hotter southern states and how cold the water gets there, but aside from a cellar I know a lot of people just put them in a river. It gives you something to do while you fish

Golddiggie said:

When I was in school down there... From about '86-97 I lived in that hell-hole... If I recall it was about 3' below sea level... Maybe it was just the county I was in, or they've since mapped more of the state... Still, it's average elevation is LOW when you think about it... I do know that there are plenty of areas in FL that are below sea level...

I plan to NEVER go back down to FL again... Too F'ing hot too much of the year for me to enjoy it... Especially if you're not on one of the barrier islands, or on the coast (east coast)...

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Nice. Classy. I live in a hell hole. And your geography knowledge is lacking.

passedpawn said:

Nice. Classy. I live in a hell hole. And your geography knowledge is lacking.

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Hoss, take a couple of valium...

I'm sure you'd think that the north east is a frozen wasteland most of the year... Or Canada is, when compared with FL...

I do find it very amusing when people from FL come up here during the summer months, and are wearing jackets when the rest of us are in shorts...

Also, I'm talking about when I was in high school down there, so the mid to late 1980's... Do YOU remember everything 100% from 25 years ago? I don't have a photographic memory (more pornographic)...

Besides, FL geography (or in general) is about as important to me as what the people five streets over are doing...

There are a lot of German immigrants in Texas and other parts of the south. My guess is there was a lot of cellaring and brewing during cold months.

Golddiggie said:

Hoss, take a couple of valium...

I'm sure you'd think that the north east is a frozen wasteland most of the year... Or Canada is, when compared with FL...

I do find it very amusing when people from FL come up here during the summer months, and are wearing jackets when the rest of us are in shorts...

Also, I'm talking about when I was in high school down there, so the mid to late 1980's... Do YOU remember everything 100% from 25 years ago? I don't have a photographic memory (more pornographic)...

Besides, FL geography (or in general) is about as important to me as what the people five streets over are doing...

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I think both places are hell holes, how about that!

Let's get back on topic here.

IrregularPulse said:

Cellaring below ground level. They would have been to able to keep temps in the 40's and 50's.

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That and ice houses in the mid to late 1800's supplied ice. Making the beer wasn't the problem. It was transporting and distribution.

Midwest gets hot in the summer too. Many breweries had their own ice houses. In the late 1800's there were thousands of breweries across the country. Local beer for everyone!

passedpawn said:

Nice. Classy. I live in a hell hole. And your geography knowledge is lacking.

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Golddiggie, again, you seem to have a lot of brewing knowledge, and we appreciate your contributions to that respect, but it's becoming apparent (to me at least) that you are incapable of not pissing people off! This is the 3rd thread in as many days...
link
link

Perhaps some people have thinner skin, but still, calling someone's home a hell hole?!...perhaps you should read your posts before clicking 'submit,' and consider how they might come across... Here's an example: I wrote this reply...I rinsed a few bottles...I read the reply and edited a few things...I washed some pints...re-read things to be as sure as possible my meaning and intent was clear... I realize we're bound by text, and we lose all the non-verbal cues that normally accompany human conversation...I just again want you to try and realize how you come across to others with some of your posts...

Sorry to hijack the thread...living in NC, and being fortunate enough to have a basement (but not yet having a dedicated fridge for temp control), I just try to brew as much as possible in the fall, winter and spring, and save the summer for saisons and other Belgian brews...

I don't know much about the history of beer in the south, but wine and moonshine have been here forever.

Oh, and not to be argumentative :cross: the lowest point in Fl IS sea level.
Google FTW
http://www.netstate.com/states/tables/state_elevation_mean.htm

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. And I kinda like Florida, too (not to jump into the middle of that one - but Appalachicola, Port St. Joe Peninsula state park and St George's Island state park are some great places). Anyway, back to the main point. I appreciate the info and will look at the links to Kentucky Common and Cream Common.

I should have come back to this thread earlier. I'm bottling some Pale Ale today and will start up a batch of California Common. I'm thinking it would be fun to do a batch of Kentucky Common or Cream Common. I'll check the recipes and look for similarities and differences between California Common.

Thanks! (and oh yeah - I was a kid in Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey and upstate New York. While I would love to go back up in the summer time - except for midgie season in Maine - I'd prefer to go down to Appalachicola and warm up a little. You kinda get a permanent chill walking to school in Houlton Maine winters!)

My place is 75 above MSL, but I am towards the center of the state. I know of no one around here who has a basement.

Pick said:

My place is 75 above MSL, but I am towards the center of the state. I know of no one around here who has a basement.

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Well, that is as close to a mountain you'll find in Florida. If anyone asks, them them you're from the Florida mountains. I'm chuckling to myself as I type that.

I like to say that my basement is behind my house, full of water.