Witbier Blue Balls Belgian Wit (Blue Moon Clone)

Okay so I went to LHBS today with my brewbuddy. They had a bunch of brewers doing their thing, mostly extract style. Sampled quite a bit before picking out my recipe. I had a few recipes saved into the phone as well as my homebrew bible on hand. My buddy Marc picked up enough stuff to brew an abbey trappist. I on the other hand couldn't decide. I just brewed and am about to keg "blacklabs orange cascade" and samples have kicked ass. I thought about the same grain bill and using a belgian or hefe yeast. However this is what I will be brewing monday. Just pitched the yeast starter about 2 hrs ago with White Labs Hefeweizen IV. The LHBS had a sale on it!

Using this recipe as a base. What ya'll think...!?!??....

4.5 lbs Briess 2-row
4.5 lbs Flaked Wheat (Red)
1 oz. East Kent Goldings FWH
1 oz. Bitter Orange Peel (10 minutes)
1 oz. Homeground Coriander Seeds (10 minutes)
White Labs Hefeweizen IV Yeast

Still figuring what mash schedule I wanna follow. I use a Coleman Xtreme.. so its big.

"Edit: Just realized I have White Labs Cream Ale Yeast as well. Anyone ever work with this..maybe this might be an interesting choice for this brew? The brain is always working..."

So yesterday was brewday!

I ended up making a hefe. Utilized this recipe for 5 gallons:

4.5 lbs Pale Malt 2-row (briess)
4.5 lbs Red Flaked Wheat
1 oz FWH US East Kent Goldings
1 oz Ground Coriander @ 10 min left
1 oz Bitter Orange Peel @ 10 min left
1 vial WL Hefeweizen Yeast

Hit my first temp @ 122 perfect w/ 133 degree water
Second temp was short at 145 for about 40 minutes (didnt have enough hot water) w/ 200 degree water
Brought temp to 153 for 30 minutes w/ boiling water
Sparged at 168 w/ 200 degree water

I still hit the style with og of 1.045 so we will see what happens.

I woke up this am to the blowing off of the stopper. Started quick and lookin sexy. :rockin:

Hi.

I am working on the recipe, little bit changing BierMuncher´s, can you tell me if it is good or bad? I am quite a "green" home brewer.

Belgian Wit:
5g batch

2 lb Flaked Wheat
1/2 lb Belgian Aromatic
1/2 lb Crystal Wheat Malt
3 lb Pale Malt Extract
1.5 lb Wheat DME

1.5 oz Goldings 60m
0.5 oz Saaz 30m
0.25 oz Saaz 5m

0.75 oz Coriander 10m
0.75 oz Bitter Orange Peel 10m

Belgian Wit yeast WP400

Thank you.

I hope you don't mind my jumping in but I have been experimenting with spices including orange peel and vanilla bean, over the last several months. Lately I've come to the conclusion that different spices have to be added at different times.

Licorice root I've been adding at 10-15 minutes with good results.
Coriander I've been crushing in a baggie and adding right when I turn the heat off.

Spices like nutmeg or cumin should probably also be added at 5 or the end.

I have a Spiced Old Ale that has turned out beautifully twice now. It uses cinnamon sticks that I add around 10 - 15.

So I'm thinking that ground spices are too delicate to boil. The flavour will boil off. They should be added very late in the boil. Hard spices like licorice, cinnamon sticks or star anise (unless you grind it) should be boiled but only long enough to pull the flavour out.

I tried adding dried orange peel to several beers but don't like it as much as adding fresh zest. I live in an area where we have access to mandarins and tangerines throughout the year so I just zest those and add at 5 minutes or as I turn the heat off. My wife has suggested I grate the orange but I have been carefully cutting the zest off, leaving the bitter pith, and cutting that into small pieces.

In my last two beers I used the peel of two oranges and that turned out to be just the right amount with the flavour nicely married with the malt and hops.

I hope this is of some help.

brewman ! said:

I just got an activator pack of 3942 Belgian Wheat yeast.

I am going to brew this tomorrow with that yeast. The Wyeast brochure says "Estery, low phenol producing yeast from [a] small Belgian brewery. Apple, bubble gum and plum aromas with a dry but fruity finish."

I love fruity beers. I love wheat beers. This could be heaven.

Please tell me more about the coriander and the orange. How are they prepared ?

Thanks for sharing the recipe.

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just brewed the extract version on the first page and racked into secondary today. it tasted like its going to be a great brew. im drying hoping with a half ounce of kent goldings. quick question it looks very thick im wondering if i should throw some gelatin in there to fine the brew out?

forcabrew said:

just brewed the extract version on the first page and racked into secondary today. it tasted like its going to be a great brew. im drying hoping with a half ounce of kent goldings. quick question it looks very thick im wondering if i should throw some gelatin in there to fine the brew out?

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Don't add anything. This is a wheat beer and is supposed to have an unfiltered character. :rockin:

So, I am whipping up a 1L starter (I always do a starter due to the way yeast is shipped to me - sometimes takes 3 weeks to get here) in order to do the AG recipe on Page 1 this weekend. I have started to leave my brew in the primary for a month for the yeast to do its thing and make me a nice clear beer. How about with a wit? A month or?

Update: The beer came out great. Thanks for the recipe bier. The coriander comes through just a bit, but compliments the orange peel wonderfully. Everyone who tried this loved it. I liked it too cuz I could enjoy out of the bottle. The yeast added so much flavor. Some sips were bananaie lol, some almost bubble gum, and all while the coriander throws around your taste buds. I am gonna brew this again exact but also mess with a couple different yeasts. The color is spot on to hefe/ blue moon wheat style. Winner here all the way around. Thanks Again Bier, and everyone else for sharing tips and experiences.

ok say what would happen if you added a BrettB..for a second fermentation..would you need to add sugar..

Gear101 said:

ok say what would happen if you added a BrettB..for a second fermentation..would you need to add sugar..

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Brett can eat through some of the more complex sugars that regular sacc can not, this recipes usually cuts out at about 1.013 the past few times ive brewed it. My guess with the brett your gonna need some extra fermentation time and expect this to get pretty dry, my guess is around 1.00.

Maybe other might want to chime in but i dont really feel that this beer has a body that could support some brett character, i feel that this would make the beer really dry and thin and very one dimensional.

just my 2 cents, i like my brett beers to be a bit higher in abv

BierMuncher said:

This should be a good base:
3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

1.49 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)

0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast #3944 or White Labs WLP400) Definitely want a Belgian Wit yeast though.

Mash your flaked wheat at 155 degrees for 60-75 minutes (the longer will up the efficiency and ABV%)

Strain the wheat grains out and bring wort to boil, add extracts and you know the rest...

Click to expand...

May be a dumb question but this will be my 3 batch. How much water do i use for this receipe? I know i will mash the wheat 1.5 qt of water per pound. But how much water do i start with.

wcarter1227 said:

Brett can eat through some of the more complex sugars that regular sacc can not, this recipes usually cuts out at about 1.013 the past few times ive brewed it. My guess with the brett your gonna need some extra fermentation time and expect this to get pretty dry, my guess is around 1.00.

Maybe other might want to chime in but i dont really feel that this beer has a body that could support some brett character, i feel that this would make the beer really dry and thin and very one dimensional.

just my 2 cents, i like my brett beers to be a bit higher in abv

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thanks for the info.. last time i did a BWhite i used a true kit and left a gallon or so in the secondary and re-pitched it with a safe dry.. didn't turn out bad but i'm working on a white that uses brett??
but the info on the complex sugars is a big help.. thanks

and i agree ABV around 6-8 is all in target

I just brewed this today but my OG was 1.050. Pre-boil was 1.040. Maybe I missed it because I scaled it down to 5 gallons? Also, I think I should've crushed the coriander seeds, right? I just threw them in whole. Hopefully it will still turn out decent.

I do mine whole

drumming102 said:

I do mine whole

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Do you still get any of the coriander flavor? I guess I'm just starting to worry a bit. I really want this beer to turn out well.

BierMuncher said:

This should be a good base:
3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

1.49 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)

0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast #3944 or White Labs WLP400) Definitely want a Belgian Wit yeast though.

Mash your flaked wheat at 155 degrees for 60-75 minutes (the longer will up the efficiency and ABV%)

Strain the wheat grains out and bring wort to boil, add extracts and you know the rest...

Click to expand...

Just bottled this yesterday. My LHBS changed it up a bit it tasted pretty good before bottling. I'll let you know

I have a question for people on here in the know. I have some superior pale malt from canadian malting company:

CMC Superior Pale Ale (2-3.5°L)
A higher color, 2-Row malt. This malt is very well modified malt is aromatic and perfect for ales of all types.

To me this malt looks similar to Pale malt crisp (albeit an american version of the UK product). Does anyone agree/disagree with using the CMC superiorl pale ale in place of the crisp pale ale?

CidahMastah said:

I have a question for people on here in the know. I have some superior pale malt from canadian malting company:

CMC Superior Pale Ale (2-3.5°L)
A higher color, 2-Row malt. This malt is very well modified malt is aromatic and perfect for ales of all types.

To me this malt looks similar to Pale malt crisp (albeit an american version of the UK product). Does anyone agree/disagree with using the CMC superiorl pale ale in place of the crisp pale ale?

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I've used Canadian Pale for a lot of recipes. It'll be just fine.

BierMuncher said:

I've used Canadian Pale for a lot of recipes. It'll be just fine.

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Cool - i bought it but have never used it . Was hoping this would fall in line with the recipe. I saw some people using Maris Otter, which I also have. Would you recommend that over the pale? I guess I wasn't sure that the crisp was going for since I haven't used the crisp before.

Will be brewing this this weekend I think!

Thanks for the response biermuncher!

CidahMastah said:

Cool - i bought it but have never used it . Was hoping this would fall in line with the recipe. I saw some people using Maris Otter, which I also have. Would you recommend that over the pale? I guess I wasn't sure that the crisp was going for since I haven't used the crisp before.

Will be brewing this this weekend I think!

Thanks for the response biermuncher!

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I you have Maris Otter and you're brewing an ale that is the more appropriate choice.

The difference between Maritime barley (Maris Otter) and prairie barley (the Canadian) is that maritime barley is plumper and sweeter providing a maltier rounder taste in the finished beer. Perfect for ales.

I'm Canadian and use both. I use the Canadian malt for lagers and Belgians and use Maris Otter, Crisp etc. for my ales.

If you can't get maritime barley, lager malt is an ok substitute.

GordonT said:

I you have Maris Otter and you're brewing an ale that is the more appropriate choice.

The difference between Maritime barley (Maris Otter) and prairie barley (the Canadian) is that maritime barley is plumper and sweeter providing a maltier rounder taste in the finished beer. Perfect for ales.

I'm Canadian and use both. I use the Canadian malt for lagers and Belgians and use Maris Otter, Crisp etc. for my ales.

If you can't get maritime barley, lager malt is an ok substitute.

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Confused by this.

Isn't this recipe for an ale? Belgian Witbier is an "ale" styling. So you are saying for Belgian ale stylings you prefer the crisp or the superior pale malt I have? For other ale stylings you prefer MO?

CidahMastah said:

Confused by this.

Isn't this recipe for an ale? Belgian Witbier is an "ale" styling. So you are saying for Belgian ale stylings you prefer the crisp or the superior pale malt I have? For other ale stylings you prefer MO?

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For Belgian ales, lager malt is a better choice. For English and North American style ales Maritime malt is better. Sorry for the confusion.

GordonT said:

For Belgian ales, lager malt is a better choice. For English and North American style ales Maritime malt is better. Sorry for the confusion.

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Hey I appreciate your consideration in trying to explain it period !

I thought all of these were classified as pale malts. When you say lager malt, you are referring to the lighter less character filled malts I assume (basic light SRM 2rows).

You wouldn't happen to have any reference (website reading, etc.) that breaks down brands or qualities of malts and their best uses would you? I would be very interested in some malt reading material if you know of any. Still breaking the ice on the All Grain scene.

I had gotten my MO almost exclusively for remaking and fine tuning my UBU recipe. I can't match it with extract, and I think MO is the key due to its biscuity nuance.

Much appreciated!

CidahMastah said:

Hey I appreciate your consideration in trying to explain it period !

I thought all of these were classified as pale malts. When you say lager malt, you are referring to the lighter less character filled malts I assume (basic light SRM 2rows).

You wouldn't happen to have any reference (website reading, etc.) that breaks down brands or qualities of malts and their best uses would you? I would be very interested in some malt reading material if you know of any. Still breaking the ice on the All Grain scene.

I had gotten my MO almost exclusively for remaking and fine tuning my UBU recipe. I can't match it with extract, and I think MO is the key due to its biscuity nuance.

Much appreciated!

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This website has at least a fair breakdown on available malts, including the elusive Caramel that many people mistake for Crystal.

http://rahr.com/

Most of the information I have about different malts and their appropriateness in different beers has come about either by reading style specific books or in discussion with brewers.

For instance it was my view for a long time that Black patent malt was THE malt for a porter until a friendly brewer convinced me to try Chocolate. Similar thing happened with Crystal 120. I was convinced it could only be used in small quantities until a different friendly brewer told me his brewery used it in one of my favorite beers.

The Classic Beer Style Series is a very good series of style specific books. Probably available through Amazon.

GordonT thanks very much for the references and the site - much appreciated.

You comment about 120 reminds me of special B. Many people said only small quantities.... Ever heard of arrogant bastard?

Thanks again!

Wow, just pulled a sample from the fermenter and it tastes really nice. I don't know if it's finished yet as it's 1.012, but my OG was 1.050 which was much higher than what the recipe said. It's been fermenting for almost 2 weeks. I just wrapped a heat pad around to help it finish out, maybe it'll help.

I can taste the coriander spice, which is a relief since I forgot to crush it. Too bad it's not summer yet because this would make a great lawnmower beer. Can't wait to keg this one up.

Just as an aside - planning on getting to this one this weekend (unless an obstacle pops up).

Wanted to post:

(Crisp Pale Ale:
A premium ale malt of the best barley variety grown from each crop year (recent examples include Fanfare and Optic). This malt offers superior milling, run-off, and extract (typically higher than domestic varieties). Crisp Pale Ale is malted in Great Ryburgh using modern malting techniques to give consistent, high quality malt.)

i.e. the CM-PALE - Superior Pale Malt I have seems like a very similar substitution.

i.e. CM-PALE is the same type of Malt; just from North America (Canada).

I will likely use the CM-PALE or a blend of mosly CM-PALE and Maris Otter

I just finished brewing this and notice the color going into the fermentor was a nutish color (like a milky cream color.. tannish)... It smells extremly good, better then anything I ever smelled.

What gets me is the color going in... Did I do something wrong? I follow the all grain method on the first post the onyl differnence is i used 5 LB of each grain instead of 4.5.

It was not the boil that changed it but comming out of the mash was creamy. It sat for 1 hour at 152 (missed it by 2 degrees on the first page, but figure 2 degree wont matter). Batch sparge and the 2nd runnings were 2 degree miss as well (166).

Likwid said:

I just finished brewing this and notice the color going into the fermentor was a nutish color (like a milky cream color.. tannish)... It smells extremly good, better then anything I ever smelled.

What gets me is the color going in... Did I do something wrong? I follow the all grain method on the first post the onyl differnence is i used 5 LB of each grain instead of 4.5.

It was not the boil that changed it but comming out of the mash was creamy. It sat for 1 hour at 152 (missed it by 2 degrees on the first page, but figure 2 degree wont matter). Batch sparge and the 2nd runnings were 2 degree miss as well (166).

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THe color will be fine, its darker due to break material and proteins which will settle out during fermentation.

I get a strong clove flavor from the beer in this recipe. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks, Rich

BierMuncher said:

This should be a good base:
3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

1.49 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)

0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast #3944 or White Labs WLP400) Definitely want a Belgian Wit yeast though.

Mash your flaked wheat at 155 degrees for 60-75 minutes (the longer will up the efficiency and ABV%)

Strain the wheat grains out and bring wort to boil, add extracts and you know the rest...

Click to expand...

Made this twice now. It is awesome i will continue to make it until i find better.
Thanks

pascott6 said:

Made this twice now. It is awesome i will continue to make it until i find better.
Thanks

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If you find better, post the recipe.

I'm looking to make this in a few weeks, but my LHBS doesn't have flaked wheat for some reason. Can/How do I use torrified/unmalted wheat?

Just curious - has anyone compared AHS's Blue moon clone to biermuncher's? I have heard raves about both recipes, but haven't tried both against each other.

CidahMastah said:

Just curious - has anyone compared AHS's Blue moon clone to biermuncher's? I have heard raves about both recipes, but haven't tried both against each other.

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One of the glasses below is the real blue moon and one is AHS. Can you tell me which one is the real deal, lol

In all fairness to AHS, it was an extract batch and I'm convinced you can't clone this with an extract batch. Additionally, if I did attempt it again as an extract (which I never will), I would have done a late extract boil to keep it light.

Now, I just brewed biermuncher's and it is wonderful. I do get alot of cloves but it's easy to adjust and I really like it! As you can see from the pic below the color is pretty much spot on and i added 1lb DME for some kick. I've done several blind taste tests and several people have picked biermuncher's as Blue Moon. Good stuff!!!

Thanks scoundrel - you make a pretty convincing argument

That said I agree with you - extract versions of blue moon would be pretty tough to pull off - the color will be off big time. The taste of the AHS extract clone was off as well?

I probably will try the all grain clone at one point or another but man now I am nervous to do it!

The taste was off but I attribute that to the LME being in the boil so long and I don't think the boil was a vigorous as it could be. I brewed at a friends house so I was in an environment I wasn't used to.

Additionally, mashing the flaked wheat for 60 min is such a key step and if I remember correctly the AHS version just had me steep the wheat.

If you can't pull the AG version, I think BierMuncher's partial mash version is the way to go.

One other thing. If it seems like I'm bashing AHS, I'm not. I've bought several really good extract kits from them in the past. I just think this is a clear example of why people move to AG. Some AG recipes just don't work as an extract.

Ha - no I think that like you said, conditions being what they were there is a good chance the All Grain AHS is a different animal.

Totally agree with the extracts work for some recipes bit as well.

As for extract recipes - I am done with those! Cost pushed me into AG batches and I am not turning back My cost per brew is what i need it to be for me to rationalize to my wife brewing is cost effective too. ha (discount all the equip cost I have tacked on...)

Thanks for the information though - much appreciated

Ya with three small kids I'm in kinda a limbo state. I brew extract when I need to brew fast and AG when I have time and want to brew something special (like Blue Moon). One day when my kids are old enough to be indentured servants, I'll get my sweat shop in place and start rolling out many AG batches

Glad I could help and your cider pics are impressive!