This batch ended up a bit bigger than usual (1.062 OG). I added one Wyeast Pacman activator pack. I activated the pack and let it sit for about 6 hours before pitching. Is that going to be enough yeast?
1.062 OG + 1 Pacman Activator Pack - Enough Yeast?
- Thread starter gannawdm
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el_bandito
Active Member
Yes ... RDWHAHB
RyanPDX
Well-Known Member
Everything I have heard or read says no, a starter is pretty much required for any beer. MrMalty.com says at least 1.5L of starter for a 1.062. 1 pack of yeast will work, but it would be better with more.
Your fine, put it to work.
EricCSU
Well-Known Member
It will probably turn out fine. Don't stress about it.
Next time though, use the yeast pitching calculator and either pitch enough smack packs or use a starter. Then you will never have to worry about under attenuation or a slow lag.
Eric
Next time though, use the yeast pitching calculator and either pitch enough smack packs or use a starter. Then you will never have to worry about under attenuation or a slow lag.
Eric
springer
Well-Known Member
you underpitched but don't stress out about it. The beer will be beer may not be the optimum beer but it will be fine. As said please use the Mr. Malty calculator in the future
SRSLY...screw Mr. Malty. Using his suggested requirements are not necessary.
For anything above 1.060, yes it's probably best to use a starter, but your beer will make it through without it.
Shake that sucker up the first few days and keep the yeast riled up. That fresh new Pacman yeast will take care of business.
For anything above 1.060, yes it's probably best to use a starter, but your beer will make it through without it.
Shake that sucker up the first few days and keep the yeast riled up. That fresh new Pacman yeast will take care of business.
I agree, MrMalty states that the Activator pack is only good for an OG up to 1.025. Anything over that and you need a starter. That's BS
There are so many other factors. Type of yeast, beer style, oxygen, temperature, etc.
I think making a "1.5 L starter" is completely unneccessary. Making my usual 800mL starter with this beer and an activator would be more than enough to get it flying. The activator by itself will do just fine.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to use a starter, but I have never needed anwhere close to what Mr. Malty states is required for any beer.
I think making a "1.5 L starter" is completely unneccessary. Making my usual 800mL starter with this beer and an activator would be more than enough to get it flying. The activator by itself will do just fine.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to use a starter, but I have never needed anwhere close to what Mr. Malty states is required for any beer.
springer
Well-Known Member
true DB but at least it will give a good baseline to the new brewer . On a Hefe I would rather underpitch than go with the recommended rate . But for a newer brewer its best to er on the side of caution.. Like I said the beer will most likely turn out well but a little more yeast and it may have turned out better
I understand...but one could argue that new brewers might get discouraged if they alwasy think it has to be perfect or that they always have to make a huge starter.
I'll make a baseline (that still isn't necessarily true):
1.000 to 1.050 - No starter required
1.050 to 1.070 - 1 L starter required
1.070 to 1.100 - 2 L starter (stepped up) required with well oxygenated wort
I also disagree in regards to the beer being "better"...it may have some trouble finishing fermenting, but part of that could be helped by eliminating the fear of aerating the beer after fermentation has begun (i.e. rousing yeast to ensure good attenuation)
Proper aeration, a decent pitching rate, active yeast, etc. is much more important than simply using the rate mr. malty suggests. I plan to make a thread getting more into this soon.
I'll make a baseline (that still isn't necessarily true):
1.000 to 1.050 - No starter required
1.050 to 1.070 - 1 L starter required
1.070 to 1.100 - 2 L starter (stepped up) required with well oxygenated wort
I also disagree in regards to the beer being "better"...it may have some trouble finishing fermenting, but part of that could be helped by eliminating the fear of aerating the beer after fermentation has begun (i.e. rousing yeast to ensure good attenuation)
Proper aeration, a decent pitching rate, active yeast, etc. is much more important than simply using the rate mr. malty suggests. I plan to make a thread getting more into this soon.
I would be very interested in that.
springer
Well-Known Member
DB I know this isnt the debate thread but the OP pitched into a 1.062 wort . And thats what I was responding to. You yourself state that a 1.050-1.070 beer should have a 1 liter starter. All the variables that you state do come into play. But for the Noob its better to be closer to the proper pitch than to drastically under pitch.
To the op your beer will turn out well.
other things happen when you under pitch like higher ester flavors while welcomed in some beers can be very detrimental to other .
To the op your beer will turn out well.
other things happen when you under pitch like higher ester flavors while welcomed in some beers can be very detrimental to other .
Yes, but this is also a done deal. He's not asking "what should I do when I brew this"...he asking "will this be ok since it came out high?" The pacman yeast shouldn't produce any crazy esters and in fact will do fine with a low pitch rate from everything I've heard and read (and limited experience with the yeast.)
Sorry, I just see the Mr. Malty thing far too often and this kicked me into "we can give better advice" mode. You're right, tho...it should read "recommended" pitch rates and we could even give details to what works best for different types of yeast. I know how many of my favorites work.
This is the type of debate that belongs here anyway, not the debate thread
We need discussions like this for full understanding. Sorry to the OP for dragging this out...let me reiterate: You'll be fine
As for the yeast thread...I'll include that in my brewing tutorials project, but don't expect them TOO soon. I am going to be busy until after a competition in March.
Cheers.
Sorry, I just see the Mr. Malty thing far too often and this kicked me into "we can give better advice" mode. You're right, tho...it should read "recommended" pitch rates and we could even give details to what works best for different types of yeast. I know how many of my favorites work.
This is the type of debate that belongs here anyway, not the debate thread
We need discussions like this for full understanding. Sorry to the OP for dragging this out...let me reiterate: You'll be fine As for the yeast thread...I'll include that in my brewing tutorials project, but don't expect them TOO soon. I am going to be busy until after a competition in March.
Cheers.
springer
Well-Known Member
looking forward to the yeast thread ... Good luck in the comp.
gannawdm
Well-Known Member
I'm not too worried about my beer. It just crossed my mind that maybe I should have used a starter after pitching. Given that I didn't do that, what can I do to make the most of the yeast I have?
Elaborate please. I was under the impression that disturbing the fermenter after fermentation has begun is a no-no.
Is the goal to just stir up the yeast or also to aerate? Would it be better to just gently stir up whatever has fallen to the bottom? Or should I just shake the whole fermenter like hell?
Given that I did under-pitch, should that affect what temperature that I keep it at? Based on what I've been reading, many ferment with Pacman in the lower 60s. My stick-on Fermometer is reading 62-64.
Elaborate please. I was under the impression that disturbing the fermenter after fermentation has begun is a no-no.
Is the goal to just stir up the yeast or also to aerate? Would it be better to just gently stir up whatever has fallen to the bottom? Or should I just shake the whole fermenter like hell?
Given that I did under-pitch, should that affect what temperature that I keep it at? Based on what I've been reading, many ferment with Pacman in the lower 60s. My stick-on Fermometer is reading 62-64.
I give it a nice swirl for a few minutes twice every day the first few days (and continue thereafter as long as there is still active fermenting.) This keeps the yeast active and happy and helps to ensure it doesn't fall out of suspension. As long as you have positive pressure on your airlock, you're fine.
The fermenter fills with co2 and, especially if it is bottle-necked like a carboy, it's not going to get any oxygen in there without one of the following:
1. Fermentation has ended, which means it's not giving out any more co2 (even then you have a cloud of co2 protecting your beer for a short time)
2. A drastic change in temperature, which would also stop fermentation AND possibly cause a "suck-back" from your airlock (which still is more of a concern for sanitation, less from oxygen)
3. An act of god, which means god came down and put oxygen in your wort (jealous roommates have also been known to do this with long straws)
Basically, you don't have to worry about oxygen getting in the beer until after fermentation is completely finished and the cloud of co2 that rests upon your beer is beginning to diminish. co2 is heavier than air, so this would be difficult unless it sits for some time.
You SHOULD be concerned about oxygen at the bottling or kegging stage, as this is when splashing and pouring beer can absorb oxygen and eventually cause off-flavors. Even this isn't a big deal as long as you rack and take the necessary precautions. Also, if you drink beer quickly, the oxygen won't give it terrible flavors for some time, even if you poured it into a keg through a funnel (NOTE: Don't ever do this), although it may taste different with the oxygen.
62-64°F is perfect for the pacman and most ale yeasts. I ferment many of my ales at 58°F during the winter, due to a cold basement and no heating temp control. All the yeasts I use can handle these temps.
Hope that helps.
The fermenter fills with co2 and, especially if it is bottle-necked like a carboy, it's not going to get any oxygen in there without one of the following:
1. Fermentation has ended, which means it's not giving out any more co2 (even then you have a cloud of co2 protecting your beer for a short time)
2. A drastic change in temperature, which would also stop fermentation AND possibly cause a "suck-back" from your airlock (which still is more of a concern for sanitation, less from oxygen)
3. An act of god, which means god came down and put oxygen in your wort (jealous roommates have also been known to do this with long straws)
Basically, you don't have to worry about oxygen getting in the beer until after fermentation is completely finished and the cloud of co2 that rests upon your beer is beginning to diminish. co2 is heavier than air, so this would be difficult unless it sits for some time.
You SHOULD be concerned about oxygen at the bottling or kegging stage, as this is when splashing and pouring beer can absorb oxygen and eventually cause off-flavors. Even this isn't a big deal as long as you rack and take the necessary precautions. Also, if you drink beer quickly, the oxygen won't give it terrible flavors for some time, even if you poured it into a keg through a funnel (NOTE: Don't ever do this), although it may taste different with the oxygen.
62-64°F is perfect for the pacman and most ale yeasts. I ferment many of my ales at 58°F during the winter, due to a cold basement and no heating temp control. All the yeasts I use can handle these temps.
Hope that helps.
artguy
Well-Known Member
I'd be curious which yeasts work well for you in that range, because that's about where my basement is too. I'm trying Pacman now, because I heard it does well at lower temps, but I recently used S-04 on a batch of ESB with an OG of 1.053 fermenting at about 58F in my basement, and apparently the yeast dropped out early, so the batch finished at 1.022 (after 25 days in primary).
gannawdm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for tip! I just gave her a good swirl. 10 minutes after putting the lid back on and my airlock was bubbling away, so clearly it has already filled up the 2+ gallons of head space with CO2. Pacman seems to be munching away.
Of the top of my head, I regularly use Nottingham, US-05, WLP300, WLP380, WLP550, WLP004, WLP080, WLP810 and WLP029. Granted, a few of these are made for low temps or are simply hardy yeasts.
I didn't like the S-04 the few times I used it, but people tell me I'm crazy. It is a big flocculator, so it could easily come out of suspension in cold temps. I'm sure the shaking would help.
Cool...no need to take the lid off after this point...at least until you are ready to bottle or possibly sample.
gannawdm
Well-Known Member
The OG was 1.062. After 1 week at about 62F, the gravity is down to 1.014. Not too shabby. I like this yeast so far. I've got another Pacman smack pack that I'm going to make my first starter with. Maybe I'll go a little bigger next weekend.
If you want to make a really big beer, you could just dump it on the yeast cake of this beer when you rack it
