Lager Ferm Temp

I have a larger that's a little over a week old in the primary and my books (Joy of Homebrewing) said that it should be at a temp of 50 degrees in the primary. My carboy is in the basement and in Colorado it's been warmer than normal so my temp in the basement has been in the low 60's. What effect will this have, it seems to be fermenting fine, I have a nice layer of foam on the top and you can see activity, (not in the airlock though) but I’m am getting some crust around the inside of the carboy which I haven’t had happen before on my darker beers. It also looks a lot more cloudy than I would have thought. I might do my first primary to secondary to see if that helps out. I’m sure everything is fine but thought I would check. I’ll try and post pics tonight.

What type of yeast are you using?

I beleive it was an American Type Y yeast not sure on the Type Y but American for sure.

Was it white labs #WLP840 American Lager ? If so it needs to ferment in the 50-55f range. I would do the old carboy in cold water trick to get temps down.

I'm almost positive that's what it was. I'll look tonight and confirm. So what is all that activity i've been seeing?

krc333 said:

I'm almost positive that's what it was. I'll look tonight and confirm. So what is all that activity i've been seeing?

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It's fermenting. Having the temperature too high won't stop fermentation. Just that having the high temperature (lager yeast like 48-55 or so) will lead to off-flavors. Just like fermenting an ale at 80 degrees- the yeast actually go crazy at higher temperatures, but there are some esters and sulfury flavors that develop from having the temperatures out of the desired range for the specific yeast you're using.

I ferment almost all my ales at 62-65 degrees, and almost all my lagers at 50 degrees.

ok, that makes sense, so should i try and lower the temp at this point? I was going to rack it to the secondary this weekend and then let it sit for another week. Should i lower it once in the secondary or is all the up and down of the temp going to cause some really crazy off-flavors?

krc333 said:

ok, that makes sense, so should i try and lower the temp at this point? I was going to rack it to the secondary this weekend and then let it sit for another week. Should i lower it once in the secondary or is all the up and down of the temp going to cause some really crazy off-flavors?

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If you could put it in a tub of water and get it to 50 degrees, that would benefit your beer, even though most of fermentation is done.

When I make lagers, it's usually 2-3 weeks in the primary, then the diacetyl rest, then rack to secondary and gradually lower the temperature by 5 degrees per day until I'm at lagering temps (I like 34 degrees) for 8 weeks or so, then bottle or keg.

Where you only planning to secondary for a week or so and skip the lagering? What exactly are you making?

It was a recipe out of the joy of homebrew but I had to change it up a bit because my local store didn’t have the exact ingredients.

¾ lb’s of crystal malt 40
7.5 of pale ale LME (the lightest they had)
1 oz of cascade hops
2 oz of perle hops

Steeped the grains for about 20 minutes until boil started, then added the LME and cascade hops for 1 hour of boil time, added the 2 oz of perle hops for the last ten. (I might have done the hops in reverse perle for an hour and the cascade for 10 minutes) Then I pitched the White Labs American yeast in the carboy (5 gallon) which has been fermenting in the basement for 10 days at probably an average temp of 58-60 degrees. My plan was to do 2 weeks in the primary and then rack it to a secondary for at least a week and then bottle it and let it sent for another 7-10 before opening.

Well, I think you're going to need a diacetyl rest, even if you skip the lagering.

I don't recognize the recipe- what was the name of the recipe? Or the style you're attempting?

You're actually making a steam beer at this point- an ale fermented with lager yeast at ale temperatures. Anchor steam is the commercial example of a style like that.

Ah, ok, I see the recipe in TJOH. You're making a steam beer anyway, so you're right on track. Sorry for the confusion!

His instructions tell you to ferment as normal, but THEN put it at 50 degrees for two weeks in secondary. I think his instructions weren't very clear- he says "If two-stage fermentation is used, the beer will improved if matured for 2-3 weeks at a temperature of about 50 degrees before bottling". So, he's saying to ferment at regular ale temperatures, then secondary for 2-3 weeks at 50 degrees.

That's a typical steam beer, not a lager. Lagers are done a bit differently.

I noticed that Papazian doesn't really give instructions on lagers in that recipe section. I would consider using other techniques for making lagers, even though I think Papazian rocks.

I’ll look up the name of the recipe tonight but I think I remember the write up mentioning something about steam type. I think I’ll probably go ahead with that on this batch and then on my next lager do it correctly from the start. Plus as it get colder here in Colorado I should be able to get the temp down a lot easier without having to submerge my beer in a tub of ice or water. I guess I didn’t realize and the recepie didn’t stress the largering process or it could have been meant to be done as a steam from the start which is why I’m just now catching onto this process.

That’s exactly the recipe because I remember reading that last part and not understanding what he was talking about. So I’ll go ahead and rack it this weekend, pull the temp down to 50 and let it sit for another 2 weeks. Thanks for the help because I was getting totally lost. I feel like I’m back in college working on a group math problem.

krc333 said:

That’s exactly the recipe because I remember reading that last part and not understanding what he was talking about. So I’ll go ahead and rack it this weekend, pull the temp down to 50 and let it sit for another 2 weeks. Thanks for the help because I was getting totally lost. I feel like I’m back in college working on a group math problem.

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Well, Charlie's instructions aren't clear, and he goes from a steam beer recipe to a lager recipe next without varying the instructions at all!

There is nothing wrong with a good steam beer! I make a California Common that is really enjoyable. You might notice some sulfur notes from the lager yeast at a high temperature, and that secondary might help clean that up.

One other thing- before you rack to secondary, taste the beer. If it's oily feeling on your tongue, "slick" feeling, or buttery tasting, or like butterscotch, DON'T rack it yet. Some lager yeast strains are notable diacetyl producers, and you don't want to remove it from the yeast cake before the diacetyl is cleaned up. The yeast will do that, and they'll do it in the 60s, so it'll clear up but it's better to wait until after the diacetyl is gone before you rack it.

So what would happen if I just left it in the primary for a total of 4 weeks at the 60 average temp and then went straight to bottle or put it in the secondary at the same type for another week or two?

krc333 said:

So what would happen if I just left it in the primary for a total of 4 weeks at the 60 average temp and then went straight to bottle or put it in the secondary at the same type for another week or two?

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It would be ok. You may want to drop the temperature a bit, though, after letting it finish up. You probably want to do the diacetyl rest, and then lower the temperature a bit. That will give you a cleaner taste.