Let's talk global warming...

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zbeeblebrox said:
bio fuels are a good idea but i think it would require quite a lot of research and genetical engineering to get a plant that can produce enough fuel for everyone without taking up all of our farmland, because i would like to be able to eat in the future.
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I don't think that there is one solution to our energy problem. I think it will involve everything that we can get our hands on: solar, nuclear, bio, coal, and figuring out how we can use it with minimal impact to our environment. Nobody is going to accept living as a caveman. I sure as hell won't. But I would recycle and buy a fuel efficient or electric car. Most likely that is what is going to happen some day.

If god forbid, the water rises, I guess we'll have to build dykes around some of our costal cities. Amsterdam has had them for years. It would suck, but what can you do?

My point is that humanity can't operate on fear. We need to think about solutions and trying to do better as a society.
 
zbeeblebrox said:
. bio fuels are a good idea but i think it would require quite a lot of research and genetical engineering to get a plant that can produce enough fuel for everyone without taking up all of our farmland, because i would like to be able to eat in the future.
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Algae. It apparently has a higher bio-deisel yield than hemp. http://www.oilgae.com/

You can grow it in big tanks in the desert and reserve farmland for crops. There seems to be some potential here.
 
cheezydemon said:
"Global Warning" on the history channel last night was the most comprehensive thing I have seen on global warming. I suggest you catch it if it comes on again.

Global warmings and Ice ages have happened before, and they all coincided with co2 and methane levels(and other greenhouse gasses). Heat creates co2? to an extent perhaps. Heat is releasing the co2 and methane in the permafrost it is melting, adding to the vicious cycle.

China has 500 new coal burning power plants either in the works or on the slate for the very near future.
They are expected to overtake the USA in pollution and co2 emissions by 2010. All of the third world countries are scrambling to follow suit which will create even more demand for energy and even more pollution.

And excuse me DUDE, droughts and elevated storms are effects that can be related to global warming.

We have had 2 fairly serious droughts here in the last 3 years and never had one before. So yes, while nothing is proven, I see these droughts that are popping up more and more frequently as signs of changes to come. I'm happy you had fun at the conference, but I am entitled to my opinion, and for all that you know, I am right....dude.
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I am assuming by your sarcastic nature of being "right", that you are just here for the sake of debate. Debate however, should include some factual data. I am waiting for you to post something relevent about this before I even waste any more time. Just because your town has had less rain in the past 3 years means it is global warming? You couldn't be more wrong. Have you heard of El Nino and La Nina? Those are the two climatological "systems" that meteorologists have conlcuded are affecting flow systems and weather systems. It is proven fact. Droughts due to global warming trends over a period of 3 years is complete bunk.

I do this for a living--and I'll be glad to school you for as long as you want. How technical it gets is up to you.
 
My sarcastic nature of being right? That is funny, maybe you are the pot and I am the kettle. Whatever.

You are convinced that you are right, that doesn't make it so. If every meteorologist knew exactly what was going on we wouldn't have a problem(or whatever you are) But are you going to say that there are no meterologists that believe that we are causing global warming? Why should I believe you and not them.
You think that this is your field and that you can't be wrong. I'll bet that there were structural engineers in New Orleans saying "She'll Hold". Get off of your high horse.
 
I just they would put a show on that tells the whole story. It is very interesting how data is not divulged because It might hurt the agenda. They also rely on people being too lazy to read. Another problem is that when most people want to research global warming that is exactly what they search for and the results match what the mainstream media keep saying. You need to do a search for "global warming scam". The information in that search is more scientific and less emotional.
 
cheezydemon said:
My sarcastic nature of being right? That is funny, maybe you are the pot and I am the kettle. Whatever.

You are convinced that you are right, that doesn't make it so. If every meteorologist knew exactly what was going on we wouldn't have a problem(or whatever you are) But are you going to say that there are no meterologists that believe that we are causing global warming? Why should I believe you and not them.
You think that this is your field and that you can't be wrong. I'll bet that there were structural engineers in New Orleans saying "She'll Hold". Get off of your high horse.
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High horse? because I actually have some meteorological background (16 years, Air Force Weather) vs. your stab in the dark conspiracy theory on a drought?

I never once said all meteos agree on global warming, but I GUARANTEE that a 3 year trend of drought, not one of them is crying global warming. You are claiming it as fact with no basis.

FWIW, that "drought" is a local effect due to ENSO (El Nino Southern Oscillation), nothing else. I suggest you do some reading before you come in here and spout untruthful bunk. Let me get you started.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/elnino/el-nino-story.html
 
it should all be done scientifically. the burden of proof is on the scientists and people who believe that we are causing global warming. it is up to them to provide a repeatable expariment that rules out all ,or at least most, variables other than human beings.
 
First of all I will state that I do believe that the Earth is warming. I also believe that man has made in an impact on the effects of this warming period. I also believe that regardless of what version of global warming you subscribe to, we should be conscious of how we treat our planet, its resources and the wildlife that inhabit this planet.
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I agree here.

I don't think we'll kill off the planet, just make it a horrible place for humans to live and destroy millions of animals and their habitats.

Will the earth be alive long after we're gone? yes, i think it will take a helluva long time before we have the ability to blow it up and it will sustain life long after we've deserted it or it kills us off.

Do I think I will have to worry about global warming in my lifetime? No...but...didn't someone mention posterity??

basically...i think everyone should do their part to treat their planet, their country, their neighborhood, their friends, their family, their environment, their fellow creatures with respect and care.

The big Global Warming scare just takes away from the fact that we DO have an adverse effect on the planet we live on.

SOME people i've met that "don't beleive in it" really piss me off because they use it as an excuse. they think no matter what they do, it won't affect anything. they throw their trash everywhere, don't reuse or recycle anything, buy crap furniture that they throw away and buy again and again and again.

i've seen things change in my short life so far. i've seen pig farms turn rivers from crystal clear blue to **** brown. I've seen forests that i played in as a child that were full of deer and turkeys and coyotes laid to waste and replaced with condos and walmarts. and with the population continously on the rise, space is always getting more crowded, water becoming less plentiful, waste becoming harder to take care of, etc...

just don't be wasteful and stupid. reuse, reduce, recycle. stop frickin breeding so much. try the best to leave the world the way you came into it...hopefully a littler better off if you can.

all of this has nothing to do with global warming, of course. i guess i just don't care about global warming...i find taking care of our planet much more important for other reasons than a little (mostly) natural heat.
 
DeathBrewer said:
stop frickin breeding so much.
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Regardless of what someone's views on Global warming may be, I think if the world only had a fraction of the population it does now, everyone would be better off. Yeah, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but c'mon it's easier to support 3 billion people than 6+. I don't believe the Constitution included the right to procreate at will.

Personally, I don't think we have enough solid data to claim 'Global Warming'.

On a lighter note, I thought global warming was directly linked to the disappearance of pirates? LOL :)

250px-FSM_Pirates.jpg
 
I've been avoiding this thread for a while but with Dudes comments up there i think i am going to need some popcorn and a beer next time i read through this thread. It's fantastic.

I like you DeathBrewer, you look at it the way i do. I think the scientific community made a big mistake by declaring global warming this scary end-all idea. I like to view the world kinda like how i view camping, leave it the same or better than when you arrived.

I won't voice an opinion either side on global warming. I find it difficult to think that we could cause such a drastic problem, and at the same time have a lot of respect for the scientific community who's backing it. I just dont have the resources or time to say yay or nay, but i will say, Hell--let's keep this place healthy eh guys? I'm young, i want my kids to be able to go hunt elk and birds like i have so let's not only keep Oregon green, let's keep this planet green and happy.
 
What would it take for you to believe in man made Global Warming? What evidence would you need or event to happen.
 
TxBrew said:
What would it take for you to believe in man made Global Warming? What evidence would you need or event to happen.
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Man-made global warming? I'll never buy it. The Earth's temperature has gone up and down like a yo-yo for eons, and will continue to do so. It is only mankind's arrogance that assumes that he is the cause of it.
 
who the hell dug this up from the dead? I remember adding to it last year, but I thought we put the nail in the coffin.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Man-made global warming? I'll never buy it. The Earth's temperature has gone up and down like a yo-yo for eons, and will continue to do so. It is only mankind's arrogance that assumes that he is the cause of it.
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Here, here! We can do our part to be better stewards, but politicians would rather use it to find ways to tax us and control the way we live.

It's like the politicians who think we don't pay enough in taxes. You don't see those rich ba$tard$ writing checks to the goverment for more taxes. Ohh, those more fortunate people (who already pay the lions share of taxes) should pay more cause they have more. They make it sound like it was luck that made people successful instead of hard work, education, & individual responsiblity. No good deed goes unpunished.
 
I am not saying that Global Warming IS ABSOLUTELY HAPPENING AND IS MAN MADE.

I am saying that if you don't have the sense to even look at it to make sure it isn't happening, and that there isn't something we can do about it, then you are like the people in New Orleans who refused to believe that a storm could put 15 feet of water into down town.

Do you want to be the stubborn old fool sitting on Mt St Helens when people were saying it was gonna blow?

Not me. And I care more about the facts than any politics.
 
Three indisputable facts:

1. Climate cycles have been around for a long time:

IceCores1.gif


2. CO2 is a "greenhouse" gas, not the most important one (water is), but the one that varies the most.

3. The current CO2 spike is unique historically:

IceCores2.gif


Three relatively solid positions:

A. #1 is due to external conditions, either orbital forcing or variations in solar output AND we are near the end of an inter-glacial period.
B. #2 CO2 changes have always lagged temperature changes, it's not the driver historically.
C. #3 reflects human industrialization.

A few opinions:

Fuel instead of food is a bad choice. The corn used to produce 25 gallons of ethanol would feed a person over a year.

Cutting down and burning the rainforests to grow fuel is a bad choice. The CO2 released exceeds any potential offset of biofuels.

And, most important,

Anything politicians do will make things worst.
 
You mean that the current spike is uniqe I guess?

If it was just the co2 level, I would be more skeptical. But with 10,000 yr old glaciers and permafrost melting and thawing at the same time, it concerns me.
 
cheezydemon said:
If it was just the co2 level, I would be more skeptical. But with 10,000 yr old glaciers and permafrost melting and thawing at the same time, it concerns me.
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You won't have to worry about a drought then. You'd have all the water you could ever imagine!
 
cheezydemon said:
If it was just the co2 level, I would be more skeptical. But with 10,000 yr old glaciers and permafrost melting and thawing at the same time, it concerns me.
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that must mean global warming hit hard when the ice age ended and all of the thousands of years old glaciers melted.
i think global warming "jumped the shark" as it were when i heard it mentioned on a show about dinosaurs. and there is no way humans caused it then.
 
zbeeblebrox said:
that must mean global warming hit hard when the ice age ended and all of the thousands of years old glaciers melted.
i think global warming "jumped the shark" as it were when i heard it mentioned on a show about dinosaurs. and there is no way humans caused it then.
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Dino farts create methane you know.
 
Years BP? Is that Before Porter? If so, that explains it. CO2 being released from all those lucious Porters. I'll think I'll pop an Anchor Porter right now. Psst, oops there goes some more CO2. :D
 

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