Talk me out of it. . .

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pava

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
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Location
Denver, PA
I have never hombrewed before in my life, never seen it done, and only ever had a handful of the fruits of others homebrewing labors. I finally decided this was the year to scratch that homebrewing itch that I have had for several years now and after much reading and research I have decided to skip the extract and pm options and dive head first into the world of AG. I am used to cooking and baking and while I am not a gourmet chef by any means, I can find my way around the kitchen pretty well. . .I am also an avid BBQ'er so I understand how to work through a lengthy cooking process while keeping equipment and tools in safe sanitary condition.

That said, here is a list of equipment that I either have already bought or am planning on buying. . .

1. Northernbrewers Deluxe starter kit - http://www.northernbrewer.com/starterkits.html
2. A 25' immersion chiller
3. A 9 Gallon pot - for boiling
4. A 5 Gallon pot - for heating strike and mash water
5. Bayou Classic SP10 propane burner with the 20psi regulator
6. A mash paddle
7. Coleman extreme 52qt cooler to convert to a MLT (will this be ok for 5 gallon batches assuming I am batch sparging??)
8. Barley Crusher with 7# hopper - I figured if I am going to go all grain I might as well reap some of the benefits of buying bulk grain and crushing it myself.
9. Star San
10. A plethora ("jefe would you say I have a plethora?") of Bottles and Caps.

In addition to all the equipment, I have been lurking on HBT for over 6 months now and have read most of Palmers book several times over so I am trying to get as much research done before I take the plunge so there will be fewer surprises on brewday.

So the floor is yours. . .I value the opinions of those on this site and while it may be too late to really talk me out of this, I thought I should at least ask those here to try. . .also if there is anything in my list of equipment that is either missing or not needed please comment on that as well. Thanks all.
 
Sounds like you're well on your way! Looks like you're pretty well set-up, a LOT better than most of us were when we began! Congrats!

Ideally, you could find someone local to walk you through the process the first time, but if not - nothing wrong with jumping in feet-first. :D
 
I won't try to talk you out of it. If you want to start of all-grain, then I stand up and applaud. Go for it. It really is not that much harder than extract. If you do a single infusion mash and batch sparge, you do not add much time to your brew day, either.

When it comes to brewing day, I also would have a healthy supply of light DME around. You just do not know where your efficiency will come out on that first batch, so pack a little insurance.

It's not a bad idea to have a secondary, either. However, you can wait until after your brew day to decide on that.

I also recommend some good brewing software, so that you can easily make adjustments on the fly (i.e., see above). It certainly is not necessary, but hell, you're buying a mill before you've even brewed a batch.


TL
 
I think most of us who ultimately went AG wish we had done it sooner. It's not nearly as difficult to do as I had it built up in my head to be. With extract kits you have to worry more about the freshness of the extract or else deal with the typical "twang" associated with it. To date I have never had an issue with AG ingredients and haven't produced an undrinkable beer from the process. I say, go for it!
 
I would never dream of talking you out of brewing. I would encourage you to keep adding equipment to you system however. Misery loves company - if you don't believe me check out my garage!
 
DON'T DO IT....STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE!!!!
If I were you I'd find a local home brew club and tag along with someone on a brew day. There you will find out if you'll enjoy it, and also you'll see the equipment in use and likely learn what you need. If you're serious about going all grain you can expect to spend between $600-$1000 for a good, yet basic setup.

Don't be afraid...We brewers are a friendly type.
 
The only thing I would change on your list would be your kettle sizes--especially your HLT kettle. I would go with at least a 7 gallon or larger. I do 5-6 gallon batches, I have a 7 gallon and I wish I had a 10 (but then again I'm fly sparging). It takes a long time to get your mash out/sparging water hot and it *really* sucks to run out of hot water in the middle of sparging. Inevitably you'll want to do a 2 hour boil, a larger batch size, your evaporation rate will be higher than you think, etc. so always go a bit bigger than you think on your kettles.

Other than that good luck & have fun!
 
Noooo!! Run like buggery in the other direction!! Brewing sucks up incredible amounts of time and no small amount of money, so get out before you get hooked. Do something less destructive. Like maybe heroin. ;)

Or to put it another way, go for it. You sound very well prepared for a first batch, and going AG right from the start is certainly doable. The two bits of advice I found most helpful when starting are (i) everything tastes better with patience - the longer you're able to leave your beer, the better it'll be; and (ii) start your second batch soon after your first batch. Beer can take a couple of months to be ready for drinking, and five gallons doesn't last as long as you might think.

Welcome aboard! :mug:
 
enohcs said:
DON'T DO IT....STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE!!!!
If I were you I'd find a local home brew club and tag along with someone on a brew day. There you will find out if you'll enjoy it, and also you'll see the equipment in use and likely learn what you need. If you're serious about going all grain you can expect to spend between $600-$1000 for a good, yet basic setup.

Don't be afraid...We brewers are a friendly type.
DO IT DO IT DO IT !!!
Go for the gusto. I did I think 2 partials never a total extract and then went A/G. long story short. Bite the bullet if your anything like me you know if your going to like something WAY before you even start.
and besides you have us..... LOL
Welcome to the obsession!!!
Cheers
JJ
 
You are in the wrong place if you expect to be talked out of it. Go for it. AG is nowhere near as intimidating as it seems. I put it off for way too long, only to find that-in my opinion- it's easier than extract. Maybe it's due to all of the extra time I have to do things while waiting for the mash, but I'd take AG any day of the week. Have Fun, no matter how you do it, brewing is the shxt.
 
Wow. . .I love this place, thanks for all the quick replies and the support. . .it looks like I will be diving in. . .now I just gotta find a good time to start.

That is the one thing I am concerned about, time. I really do not have a lot of it these days, however, I think that problem is going to haunt me whether I do AG, PM, or extract, so AG it is!!

TL - Right on about the software, I actually left that off the list by mistake. . .I am trying to decide between promash and beersmith, so my plan is to download trials of both and use them side by side for a month and then buy whichever one I like the most.

MaltMonkey - Good advice on the size of the pots, however, this is equipment that I already have so I am going to have to make due with it for the time being. . .I can see this being an area of upgrade in the future though. . .of course I think the kegging setup will have to come first (hopefully)

As far as getting together with local brewers. . .I actually live within a couple of miles of Evets (I think we may practically be neighbors) I am going to try to make it to his group brew at the end of May, which would no doubt be a great learning experience.
 
Well, just for the sake of argument, I'll say DON'T DO IT.

or....DO IT... but not right away...

and here's why... I've been an extract brewer until just recently, and finally feel I'm getting ready to move to AG. I make very good and satisfying brews with ME, and only now feel I'm ready to run w/the big dawgs.

I'd really hate for you to ruin your first batch or two, just because there's too many things to do in the kitchen w/AG. If I were you, I'd do 1 or 2 batches w/ME, then taste the excellent fruits of your labor, then jump into AG knowing you've been successful & then seeing the increase in taste w/AG.

Oh, and I've just done my first batch of EdWorts apfelwein - that has to be the easiest thing to make ever. FWIW.
 
tranceamerica said:
Well, just for the sake of argument, I'll say DON'T DO IT.

or....DO IT... but not right away...

and here's why... I've been an extract brewer until just recently, and finally feel I'm getting ready to move to AG. I make very good and satisfying brews with ME, and only now feel I'm ready to run w/the big dawgs.

I'd really hate for you to ruin your first batch or two, just because there's too many things to do in the kitchen w/AG. If I were you, I'd do 1 or 2 batches w/ME, then taste the excellent fruits of your labor, then jump into AG knowing you've been successful & then seeing the increase in taste w/AG.

Oh, and I've just done my first batch of EdWorts apfelwein - that has to be the easiest thing to make ever. FWIW.
While I will agree with you that getting down the fundamentals is key, AG is really easier than most would imagine. I did extract for a long time thinking at AG was hard, it really isn't and I wish that I would have just started with it from the start. My beers have been far better and while it is more time consuming, as long as you can cook you can do AG. I say go for it take the plunge, oh and welcome to the club! :mug:
 
Read Ray Daniel's Designing Great Beers...an amazing book if you want to know the details in the evolution of a recipe. I must have for any homebrewers book shelf.

Also...You can expect your first all grain to take up about 8 hours from the very first item you prepare, until you put your fermenting vessel in its final resting spot. You can also expect to be running to check on it every 15 minutes or so. Sometimes when I can't sleep I go downstairs and look to see what sort of party is going on in my fermenter.
 
If you go to youtube.com and type in all grain brewing in the search box, their will be a list of helpful clips. If you need it. I go trow them all the time and learned alot.
 
farmbrewernw said:
While I will agree with you that getting down the fundamentals is key, AG is really easier than most would imagine. I did extract for a long time thinking at AG was hard, it really isn't and I wish that I would have just started with it from the start. My beers have been far better and while it is more time consuming, as long as you can cook you can do AG. I say go for it take the plunge, oh and welcome to the club! :mug:

I agree that it isn't very hard. But I do think it takes a bit of practice to do the "brew dance" & half of it is simply knowing what to expect or do at each point in the process. I think a bit of practice w/ME would make the first AG go smoother.

Of course, it's not impossible to start w/AG. Now that I've done it, I wouldn't go back, unless I simply wanted to be done faster.
 
Glad you're doing it! I started off with AG and never looked back, because there was nothing to look back to:cross:. Only advice I can add is to study the hell out of HowToBrew, et. al. so you understand more why you're doing what your doing as you go through the procedures, rather than just robotically doing the steps. You're bound to run into small troubles along the way and a better understanding can help you to know if it's a big deal or not and how to handle it without panicing (and causing more problems).
 
OK, so seeing as how we both live in Denver, Pa., there's no reason why I shouldn't invite you over for a brew session. How about first we get together for a beer and talk about it?
 
Thanks again guys for all the comments and advice . ..

enderwig - good question - several reasons really . .
1. I don't have all the equipment yet. . .I have been putting together the list I posted over the last couple of months and am getting ready to pull the trigger on the remaining stuff soon, so that is probably the biggest reason.
2. Part of the reason I have not been in a big hurry to get the remaining stuff is that my son was born just 2 weeks ago, so I know I won't have time to brew over the next couple of weeks/months anyway til things settle down here a bit
3. On top of all the craziness of #2 my cousin is coming in from Germany next week and will be here for the entire month of May and while I am anxious to get my first brew session underway, I would rather spend time with him and his family while they are here and then hopefully kick off the obsession in earnest hopefully in June or July at the latest . . .

It is killing me to have to wait as it is, if I had that entire list of equipment sitting in front of me right now and not have time to use it I think I would go insane. . .in the meantime I am just reading up on as much as I can and trying to absorb as much as I can so I am as prepared as possible when the brewday finally gets here.


Evets - I would love to get together for a brew and a brewsession. . . and thanks for extending the offer to help (as a noob it definitely helps knowing that there are knowledgeable folk out there willing to lend a hand). As mentioned above, things are really quite hectic here at the moment and I am just not sure when I might be able to see may way clear for either. I am definitely still keeping in mind your group brew at the end of May (although I think it is a long shot at best), if I don't make that then by June I think the revolving door (of out of town guests) at the house will have settled down and life will return more or less to normal - time should be more permitting at that point. In your group brew post you mentioned living only 1.5 miles from the turnpike. . .I am about that far as well (more toward adamstown then Denver. I live in Quail Hollow - so like I said we are practically neighbors. Anyway, thanks again for the offer, looking forward to getting together and talking about homebrewing (I think my friends and family are already sick of hearing about it :) )
 
pava said:
2. Part of the reason I have not been in a big hurry to get the remaining stuff is that my son was born just 2 weeks ago,

Congratulations!

I wish I had your patience. I brewed my first batch with a pot out of the cabinet and bucket and that was about it. Chances are you will become as ridiculously obsessed as the rest of us, so going all grain right up front is probably the best thing to do. Stop back here often, and don't be afraid to ask questions, the knowledge here is the best resource you will have at your disposal as a new brewer. :)
 
Thanks. . .

the knowledge here is the best resource you will have at your disposal

I found this place about 6 months ago and quickly realized that. . . of all the stuff I have read elsewhere I always weigh against what I have learned here. . .I am on here practically everyday just trying to soak up more knowledge through other brewers experiences (hoping that when I face the same thing bits and pieces of stuff I have read will come back to me.

As for the patience, well I just really don't have a choice right now, so I don't know how commendable that is. . . .the true test of patience will be when I have that first batch bottled. . .let's see what happens then :drunk:

Obsessed?!? Yea, I would say I am well on my way already and I haven't even brewed drop 1 yet. . .another reason why I figure I might as well just go big from the start .
 
I think I'll be one of the few people that discourage it. No matter how much reading and studying you do, nothing substitutes for actual hands on experience. I did my fair share of reading prior to getting into extract brewing. Now I have 5 batches under my belt and feel I am finally getting the process down where I can repeat it exactly every time. So, now I will be ordering my all grain equipment. I still ask relatively stupid questions on this forum even after batch #5.

There are so many unexpected things that do pop up and you will encounter things you haven't read about or saw on here. Thats why you should start simple.

Extracts aren't all that bad. My first brew was an ESB, a recipe I created myself. I did everything to ruin that batch and it still matched up pretty well with an equivalent beer produced by a major brewery around my neck of the woods.

If it weren't for cost, I'd stick to extract or PM for my batches. However, cost is a concern with DME going for $6 a pound at my LHBS.
 
Having just completed my second AG, my only advice to you would be to upgrade your brewpot after a bit to something bigger. I also have a 9 gallon, and wish I'd gone for something larger.

Welcome to the insanity and good luck! :ban:
 
pava said:
Thanks. . .



I found this place about 6 months ago and quickly realized that. . . of all the stuff I have read elsewhere I always weigh against what I have learned here. . .I am on here practically everyday just trying to soak up more knowledge through other brewers experiences (hoping that when I face the same thing bits and pieces of stuff I have read will come back to me.

As for the patience, well I just really don't have a choice right now, so I don't know how commendable that is. . . .the true test of patience will be when I have that first batch bottled. . .let's see what happens then :drunk:

Obsessed?!? Yea, I would say I am well on my way already and I haven't even brewed drop 1 yet. . .another reason why I figure I might as well just go big from the start .
Pava,

Your cousin will be here from Germany. Maybe he would like to come along and help with your 1st brew? I'm sure being german we'll have some nice beers he would enjoy drinking. If you do come what would you like to brew? I could bring my keg system and we could split a 10 gallon batch of beer. I have all thhe ingredients to make most any beer, let me know
 
All I'll add to what's already been said is to keep your first recipe a simple one without a lot of different grains, hops and extra steps. A basic stout or pale ale would be ideal. You want to get the process down first.

Normally, I'd advise you to try an extract or PM first, but if you will be witnessing an all-grain session before you ever brew yourself, then you'll probably be fine starting out AG. Seeing it done in person really opens your eyes to how easy it is to do. I didn't have that advantage with my 1st AG. I used this as a guide, read "How To Brew" and, of course asked a lot of questions here at HBT! I had been doing PMs for nearly eight years before getting my first AG under my belt. After that first AG session, I wondered why I waited so damn long.
 
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