Fg getting too low ???

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bmunos

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I have been trying different variations of the same beer for a few weeks now and the beer is tasting great... However my fj seems to be dropping below the target of 1.02. I have been pitching new wort strait on top of the old yeast and having great results. My question is can you have to much yeast???
 
Agreed, also how often do you check your thermometer?

To directly answer the question, yes you can certainly overpitch. I recommend consulting mrmalty.com for the correct amount, every time.
 
Mr. Malty is fine for determining the number of cells you need, but the slurry estimator has been way off in my experience.

See here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/11/counting-cells.html

If you want, I'll do a cell count of your slurry for free. See here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/p/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html

Most harvested slurries seem to be about 1 billion cells per milliliter of thick slurry. The viability is a function of the ABV of the beer that it came from and the number of days that it was at that alcohol level.
 
I have found from washing and reusing yeast that they start to attenuate higher and higher as they get older. I usually stop at 4-5 generations and start fresh liquid yeast from Wyeast or dry to prevent this. Also, if you are doing partial mash or all-grain your mash temps play a big part of how low the FG gets. Mashing at lower temps (<150) will result in a more fermentable wort and lower FG. Mashing at higher temps leaves a higher FG.
 
I have found from washing and reusing yeast that they start to attenuate higher and higher as they get older.

That make sense. One of the traits that yeast commonly loose due to mutation is the ability to flocculate. Low flocculators are typically high attenuators. It's neat to see things I have read surface in others experience. Water washing yeast, by it's nature, will select the low floculators. I recommend that people don't wash their yeast.

Just store it like this:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html

It's easier and you aren't selecting low floculators and high attenuators. Rather, the cells will be selected based on the beer you like to make.
 
That make sense. One of the traits that yeast commonly loose due to mutation is the ability to flocculate.



WOW. You just confirmed what I suspected that older yeast do not flocculate as well. I didn't realize that. After the 4th reuse of the same yeast I could not get my beer to clear without cold crashing. On the first 2 versions with that yeast it was MUCH clearer without cold crashing.
 
WOW. You just confirmed what I suspected that older yeast do not flocculate as well. I didn't realize that. After the 4th reuse of the same yeast I could not get my beer to clear without cold crashing. On the first 2 versions with that yeast it was MUCH clearer without cold crashing.

Do you wash your yeast by mixing it with water, letting it settle for a period of time, then save the yeast that have not fallen to the bottom?
 
Do you wash your yeast by mixing it with water, letting it settle for a period of time, then save the yeast that have not fallen to the bottom?

Exactly. I let the heavy trub settle out of the wash water for 20 minutes so I only decant off the creamy white liquid into sanitized jars for yeast storage until ready for a starter. The batches that had problems clearing were 4-5 generation harvested yeast.
 
I let the heavy trub settle out of the wash water for 20 minutes so I only decant off the creamy white liquid into sanitized jars for yeast storage.

That's probably why your yeast doesn't flocculate. There's just as much, just as viabile, yeast in the "heavy trub" as there is in the "creamy white liquid". Water washing the yeast the way you have described saves the yeast that don't flocculate as well.


See here for details:

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html
 
That's probably why your yeast doesn't flocculate. There's just as much, just as viabile, yeast in the "heavy trub" as there is in the "creamy white liquid". Water washing the yeast the way you have described saves the yeast that don't flocculate as well.


See here for details:

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

Very, very interesting! So how do you recommend I harvest the yeast? Just dump in your sanitary water after racking the previous beer, swirl it up and pour into jars?

If I do this the only problem is I'm not sure how to estimate the number of viable yeast cells in say 1/2 cup of thick slurry. I figure that with my washed yeast I have roughly 50 billion cells in 1/2 cup of the white yeast layer that settles out in the washed yeast jars, so I use that number in yeastcalc.com to determine my starter size.

If you are telling me that the viability is MUCH higher in the heavy trub left after a fermentation what would you say is the number of viable cells in say 1/2 cup of heavy trub from a non-dry-hopped beer?

EDIT: Mr. Malty calculator appears to indicate that the heavy slurry harvested from the bottom of a recent fermentation may have around 300 billion yeast cells in 1/2 cup of thick slurry! If that's the case there is no need to make a starter to repitch yeast slurry so long as it's not that old. I'm sure a starter would be best though to wake them up and get them to high krausen before pitching for a short lag time.
 
Very, very interesting! So how do you recommend I harvest the yeast? Just dump in your sanitary water after racking the previous beer, swirl it up and pour into jars?
read this link: http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html
If I do this the only problem is I'm not sure how to estimate the number of viable yeast cells in say 1/2 cup of thick slurry. I figure that with my washed yeast I have roughly 50 billion cells in 1/2 cup of the white yeast layer that settles out in the washed yeast jars, so I use that number in yeastcalc.com to determine my starter size. ?
Typical harvested slurry is 1 billion per ml. The half cup you have is likely closer to 100-200 billion cells. However this can vary quite a bit. It is highly dependant on the strain. 250 million per ml to 2 billion per ml is common.
If you are telling me that the viability is MUCH higher in the heavy trub left after a fermentation what would you say is the number of viable cells in say 1/2 cup of heavy trub from a non-dry-hopped beer??
The viability is about the same in the heavy trub as the cells you have saved. Most of the non-yeast material is protein and not hop partials. Water washing seems to separate cellulose well from the yeast, but not protein. 95% of the viable cells go down the drain when you water wash yeast.
read here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html
EDIT: Mr. Malty calculator appears to indicate that the heavy slurry harvested from the bottom of a recent fermentation may have around 300 billion yeast cells in 1/2 cup of thick slurry! If that's the case there is no need to make a starter to repitch yeast slurry so long as it's not that old. I'm sure a starter would be best though to wake them up and get them to high krausen before pitching for a short lag time.
Yes, there is no need to create a starter. Just repich enough cells. Yes, a starter would be a good idea if you want to minimize the lag time.

Mr. Matly does a poor job of estimating cells in a slurry read here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/11/counting-cells.html
 
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