Big beer and bottle conditioning

I brewed a 1.125 barleywine 3 weeks ago. I have yet to check the sg but it appears fermentation has ceased. I was planning on putting this beer in secondary for ~ a month then crash cooling it for a week and bottling it. Do i need to add yeast to this beer at bottling time? I am hoping it finished around 1.028 so it will be around 13% alcohol. I used pacman yeast in the primary ferment.

You shouldn't need extra yeast if you're only putting it in secondary for a month. If you're worried, you can mix up a teaspoon of dry yeast in a little water and add it at bottling time when you add your sugar. I've done this for bigger beers and it works nicely.

You could try yeast washing off the primary cake and then adding a jar of washed yeast into the bottling bucket before bottling.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

You could try yeast washing off the primary cake and then adding a jar of washed yeast into the bottling bucket before bottling.

Click to expand...

my main reason for adding yeast would be to get new fresh yeast in there that isn't worn out from the long hard fermentation

chemman14 said:

my main reason for adding yeast would be to get new fresh yeast in there that isn't worn out from the long hard fermentation

Click to expand...

Just keep in mind that whatever yeast you use at bottling time will more than likely not be a noticable flavor addition. So, if you decided to used washed yeast (lots of work in my opinion), even if they are stressed to the point of creating off flavors (highly unlikely), you won't taste it.

Dump most yeast into a 13% alcohol bath and they will go into a coma.

I have taken a good hearty yeast and added to my cooled priming solution. Waited until it got a little frothy, and added it to the bottling bucket.

This worked for a monster stout that was 16% ABV or so, kind of a bastardized krausening.

cheezydemon3 said:

Dump most yeast into a 13% alcohol bath and they will go into a coma.

I have taken a good hearty yeast and added to my cooled priming solution. Waited until it got a little frothy, and added it to the bottling bucket.

This worked for a monster stout that was 16% ABV or so, kind of a bastardized krausening.

Click to expand...

what yeast would be good and hearty? I would prefer not to have to buy another smack pack as I already had to buy 2 to begin with

I'm a little worried about a Barley Wine I bottled about a month ago. My hydrometer readings suggest that this one is about 11.5% My first mistake was that I didn't leave it in a warm area to carbonate. So I've moved some bottles to a warmer area and will be opening one soon in the hopes that it has actually carbonated. If not, I guess I'll be opening each bottle and adding in some champagne yeast or something along those lines.

Pitch new yeast when bottling that barleywine. I used a half pack of dry yeast right into the bottling bucket (5 gal). I had a totally uncarbonated barleywine (fermented 5 weeks) without repitching.

If you have a bottled beer that did not carbonate after a couple of months in 70+ temps, it probably is never going to carbonate without help. Just dump them back into the bottling bucket, add yeast, then re-bottle. Be as careful as you can not to splash and oxidize the beer. When I did this, I put the beer right back into the same bottles they just came out of. So far, it has worked very well.

so what kind of yeast should I pitch?

I think I pitched a S-05. Doesn't really matter. Probably want to choose something that flocculates well. I wouldn't recommend Brett

I would recommend WL Irish Ale yeast or similar that can handle 11%+, but I would still add it to the priming solution and let it start to ferment before adding that to the alcohol bath.

I've used S-05 with a 12+ barleywine and I can assure you it will carbonate your beer. I can also tell you, from experience, that if you sprinkle it directly into the bottling bucket it will work. I would recommend you re-hydrate the yeast first (I didn't do that, but why not).

What I wouldn't do is leave your beer sitting in that bucket any longer than necessary.

To each their own, but why risk it.

cheezydemon3 said:

To each their own, but why risk it.

Click to expand...

risk not pitching?

chemman14 said:

so what kind of yeast should I pitch?

Click to expand...

Something that can take the alcohol.

A nice neutral flavored champagne yeast can go to 18%.

Do you have a keg?

What about force carbonating in keg, then bottling from there?

Photopilot said:

Do you have a keg?

What about force carbonating in keg, then bottling from there?

Click to expand...

I dont have a keg at this time. The beer ended up at 1.032 for an alcohol% of 12.8. It is currently in secondary where I plan to let it sit for ~ 3 weeks. Should I still pitch more yeast?

chemman14 said:

I dont have a keg at this time. The beer ended up at 1.032 for an alcohol% of 12.8. It is currently in secondary where I plan to let it sit for ~ 3 weeks. Should I still pitch more yeast?

Click to expand...

Maybe but it is a questionable technique based on all the varied responses. I always hope for a consensus when I ask a question here. There was a thread a while ago about a guy force carbonating a long aged big BW. His logic made sense to me.

However I just bottled a 10+% ABV BW with priming sugar. I had used a BW yeast so I figured it was ready for high attenuation and able to handle high alcohol. After 1 month in primary in and 2 in secondary it was still showing pressure on the airlock so i assumed active yeast still. I have had luck with a big RIS and Mead bottle carbonating in the past. I will let you know in about 3 weeks as I sample before going to long term storage.

Another thought, stir it up by agitating the carboy, and see if the yeast is still active (bubbles).

I sent an email off to rogue, we will see what they have to say.

My experience is as follows: Last fall I brewed a barleywine that clocked in at 10%. It spent 8 weeks combined in primary and secondary. At bottling time I did not add anymore yeast and when I tasted it 8 weeks later, it was nice and carbed. The yeast I used was nothing special, just Wyeast 1332 - NW Ale. So, I would either: (a) do nothing and just bottle, giving the yeast ample time to work on the priming sugar (like 6-8 weeks before even checking the carbonation) or (b) add a bit of fresh yeast at bottling time. Good luck!

Adding a bit of fresh beer yeast at bottling time won't hurt anything. I'd not do the champagne yeast though. I don't know if it would consume some sugars your previous yeast did not, but I wouldn't want to chance that.

I think normal yeast may die when pitched into the high alcohol BW, and Champagne yeast might start eating the some of the sugar not touched.

I could not find the info but what yeast did you use initially? Why are you contacting Rogue, did you use Pachman (sp)?

Did you try the agitating to see if the yeast is still alive?

Photopilot said:

I think normal yeast may die when pitched into the high alcohol BW, and Champagne yeast might start eating the some of the sugar not touched.

I could not find the info but what yeast did you use initially? Why are you contacting Rogue, did you use Pachman (sp)?

Did you try the agitating to see if the yeast is still alive?

Click to expand...

pacman, and I dont see how agitating will tell me if the yeast are still alive?

chemman14 said:

pacman, and I dont see how agitating will tell me if the yeast are still alive?

Click to expand...

Whenever i move a carboy whether just across the floor or to another location to rack it usually starts the airlock bubbling somewhat. I am assuming it is yeast going back to work. At least you'll know some are still alive.

If you find out after 8 weeks thats its not carbed could you just pop each bottle and add a few specs of High ABV dry yeast to each bottle?

Photopilot said:

Whenever i move a carboy whether just across the floor or to another location to rack it usually starts the airlock bubbling somewhat. I am assuming it is yeast going back to work. At least you'll know some are still alive.

Click to expand...

I feel like thats just the CO2 escaping from the beer from the shaking when you move your carboy. Not so much the yeast going back to work.

joey11bball said:

I feel like thats just the CO2 escaping from the beer from the shaking when you move your carboy. Not so much the yeast going back to work.

Click to expand...

what he said

Agitating the carboy to try to reactivate the yeast is often a suggested way to attempt to revive a stuck fermentation. You may be right about CO2 with a large move of a carboy. However, if I slide my carboy across a carpet to store in the corner of the room trying to not stir it up at all, with barely any surface ripples, I will still see a renewal of airlock activity.

This is just anecdotal observations on my part. Not sure how it would apply to a large beer with long storage or flocculated yeast.

joey11bball said:

If you find out after 8 weeks thats its not carbed could you just pop each bottle and add a few specs of High ABV dry yeast to each bottle?

Click to expand...

Why not just pitch some fresh yeast at bottling time? It's cheap insurance against a flat batch.

Here's a good article on Bottle Conditioning on BYO:

Yeast for bottle conditioning is your next concern, says Randy Thiel, the head brewer at Ommegang. Thiel explains that the yeast used during primary fermentation of strong Belgian brews —above 15° Plato or 1.060 original gravity — gets beat up during fermentation and will be of little value during bottle conditioning. If you condition your beer at least two weeks before bottling, most of this old yeast will drop out of suspension. Then you can add new yeast.

Click to expand...

I can crash cool this for at least 2 weeks. How much yeast should I add? I would prefer a rogue yeast but anything else high flocculating would be fine

chemman14 said:

I can crash cool this for at least 2 weeks. How much yeast should I add? I would prefer a rogue yeast but anything else high flocculating would be fine

Click to expand...

If you saved the yeast from the primary, you can make a small starter and pitch a portion of it. Lately I've been making a 600 mL starter, decanting half of it and pitching 100 mL of the remaining slurry into the bottling bucket. If you choose dry yeast, 1/2 of a packet will suffice. Nottingham, S-05 or T-58 are all good choices.

EvilGnome6 said:

If you saved the yeast from the primary, you can make a small starter and pitch a portion of it. Lately I've been making a 600 mL starter, decanting half of it and pitching 100 mL of the remaining slurry into the bottling bucket. If you choose dry yeast, 1/2 of a packet will suffice. Nottingham, S-05 or T-58 are all good choices.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of culturing from the dregs of a bottle

chemman14 said:

I was thinking of culturing from the dregs of a bottle

Click to expand...

That would work just fine. Step it up to 500-600 mL. Pitch a bit of it into the bottling bucket and store the rest in a sanitized mason jar to make a starter in a future batch. Win-win.

EvilGnome6 said:

That would work just fine. Step it up to 500-600 mL. Pitch a bit of it into the bottling bucket and store the rest in a sanitized mason jar to make a starter in a future batch. Win-win.

Click to expand...

what would you suggest I start with?

chemman14 said:

what would you suggest I start with?

Click to expand...

I've never tried it before. Here's an article from BYO on Culturing Yeast from Bottles with very detailed instructions. I think I've seen threads around here where they started with a much bigger volume. I'll leave it to others to chime in on that.

Photopilot said:

Agitating the carboy to try to reactivate the yeast is often a suggested way to attempt to revive a stuck fermentation. You may be right about CO2 with a large move of a carboy. However, if I slide my carboy across a carpet to store in the corner of the room trying to not stir it up at all, with barely any surface ripples, I will still see a renewal of airlock activity.

This is just anecdotal observations on my part. Not sure how it would apply to a large beer with long storage or flocculated yeast.

Click to expand...

That is definitely just CO2 coming out of solution. Airlock activity has only a passing relationship to yeast activity.

so its nearing time for bottling and we still done have a consensus

There is no concensus.

Why risk it for such a special brew?

Go safe and add yeast to the priming sugar after cooling.

Or do whatever you want, but decide.

cheezydemon3 said:

There is no concensus.

Why risk it for such a special brew?

Go safe and add yeast to the priming sugar after cooling.

Or do whatever you want, but decide.

Click to expand...

I plan on adding yeast, but how much and what kind is the question