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PsiWulf7

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Hey. My buddy and I are looking into starting a homebrew store up in Chicago. I've got the homebrewing thing down, in terms of theory, at least, and I'm pretty sure I know what I should carry. I've got a pretty solid finance background, as well. What I'm not sure about are some of the performance metrics of average homebrew shops.

Have any of you had experience running a homebrew shop? I'd love any advice I could get! How long did it take you to turn a positive month? What kind of inventory do you carry? Did you add other things into the inventory?

Thanks in advance! :mug:
 
Brewing for four years, beer, cider, mead, wine. 2 years as a wine steward, six months of that spent at an 18,000 sq ft. liquor store with a massive beer selection (which I dealt with daily). I've got that down enough to run a store, and I have a partner who brews as well. What I'm curious about are start up concerns that I may not be anticipating.
 
It's been my observation that it is just about impossible to survive selling just homebrew gear & supplies. Most successful shops also sell wine equipment and supplies (winos will spend thousands of dollars on equipment to make mediocre wine, whereas homebrewers are cheap) or cater to the microbreweries and wineries.

Have a website from the very beginning.

Make certain you have a good crusher. Bulk LME extract is good, you only need two or three kinds.

Doesn't hurt to have some of your own on tap for sampling, if the local laws allow it.

Startups always cost 2-3 times what you think they will. Believe me, I'm there.
 
Downtown Chicago?

I think you're going to find that it's nearly, if not totally, impossible to compete with the internet HBS's with significantly lower overhead. And besides, is there much of a market in the city? Seems like all the Illinois everyone that frequents this board are from the burbs. I know it's a small sample size, but you might want to do some market research on it.
 
rdwj said:
Downtown Chicago?

Middle North, probably. Between Addison and Foster (that's a 14 block range). There are several fairly small locations within a few blocks of Wrigley that we've scoped. They're fairly inexpensive, when the area is considered, and they'd offer enough space.

I'm planning on vintnering supplies being a major portion of my sales, as well as beer and wine paraphernalia. If we're going to be within a few blocks of Wrigley, we'll have a great market for steins, mugs, decanters, and so on. The space we're looking into is a very small retail space, but the attached climate controlled basement is HUGE and I could hold probably two to three times floor inventory down there. The place is pretty nice, as well. Exposed brick, hardwood floors, lofted ceilings with custom track lighting, all put in by the lawyer who was there before. He's moved his practice to the loop, and just wants a little bit on the side from his old building.

Y'all have given me some great advice, thanks!
 
I was also going to say...

The two or three dozen home brewers I know all go almost exclusively to the tiny, fairly dirty, back alley little homebrew store nearer to downtown than we'd be. They have an extremely limited selection and little to no hardware, and they seem to be doing well enough. I'm pretty sure their rent is next to nothing. Most people I know have gotten one too many dead pitch tubes or broken boxes in the mail to get much from the Internet homebrew places, and they're also pretty tired of paying shipping fees. I think that the availability of a local homebrewing store would bring a lot of Chicagoland people in. I know there are dozens of homebrewers just in my circle, and that would suggest hundreds, maybe thousands more on the North Side. And with all of the :rockin: colleges:rockin: in the area, we will be carrying Mr. Beer!
 
olllllo said:
Try not to be cranky.

It's hard to communicate tone on the internet...:drunk: I was trying to be succinct as opposed to cranky. Sorry!
 
david_42 said:
Startups always cost 2-3 times what you think they will. Believe me, I'm there.
Do you have a homebrew shop down in Willimina (I thought it was WillAmina, or am i confused?) or something? (I know that seems like a stupid question from somebody in MT, but I'm hoping to move back to either PDX or EUG sometime soon-ish, and should that ever come to pass, there's nothing I enjoy more than road tripping and buying homebrew stuff....)
 
My two cents:
First, are the margins on the products you would sell decent enough that you don't REQUIRE big volumes to make any money.
Second, can you get by with minimal inventory, broad selection, with rapid replenishment from your suppliers. Do suppliers give you free freight on small orders, etc.
Third, being in/near city, is there a business model you can create that does (1) keep competitors from moving in nearby and taking your business (2) brings you business that competitors formerly had? As an example, one thing that comes to mind is a brew on premise concept, which may be particularly appealing to city dwellers that have limited apartment space. If you could offer classes, or couples classes, or perhaps "team building events" via group lessons for corporate folks that are in town for conventions, etc., you may be able to build something great for yourself!

Business is fun - it's a lot of work, and it can be very stressful, and there are no guarantees of success, but it's super rewarding and even if you fail you will learn a ton. Create a great business plan, and use resources like this board, like the SCORE group from the SBA, a banker/loan officer, chamber of commerce, etc. GOOD LUCK!
 
LouT said:
...As an example, one thing that comes to mind is a brew on premise concept, which may be particularly appealing to city dwellers that have limited apartment space.

That's a really great idea
 
LouT said:
My two cents:
First, are the margins on the products you would sell decent enough that you don't REQUIRE big volumes to make any money.
Second, can you get by with minimal inventory, broad selection, with rapid replenishment from your suppliers. Do suppliers give you free freight on small orders, etc.
Third, being in/near city, is there a business model you can create that does (1) keep competitors from moving in nearby and taking your business (2) brings you business that competitors formerly had? As an example, one thing that comes to mind is a brew on premise concept, which may be particularly appealing to city dwellers that have limited apartment space. If you could offer classes, or couples classes, or perhaps "team building events" via group lessons for corporate folks that are in town for conventions, etc., you may be able to build something great for yourself!

Business is fun - it's a lot of work, and it can be very stressful, and there are no guarantees of success, but it's super rewarding and even if you fail you will learn a ton. Create a great business plan, and use resources like this board, like the SCORE group from the SBA, a banker/loan officer, chamber of commerce, etc. GOOD LUCK!


That was slamming advice, thanks!

So far we've thought of doing a few things:

1 - We plan on going through local collges' chemistry departments and developing interest through Zymurgy clubs. Nothing says awesome like homebrewing on University dime - I know it sounds absurd, but I've actually talked to the student activities board where I work (I'm currently a casewriter for a Business Ethics Institute that is housed with a local University), and they've suggested that a club like that would be a good candidate for school funding.

2 - We've looked into places where we could sponsor brew ins, classes, and Brew'n'Learn events. I talked to the guys over at Goose Island about having someone come out and give a lecture on the finer parts of microbrewing and homebrewing - it would be expensive, but it could be chalked up to advertising. It could also be a great way to make a name for ourselves in the city.

3 - We've gathered some information on having those same guys come to our store to spend a few hours on a weekend day, once or twice a month, talking to people and offering advice. Imagine a sort of "Saturdays with the Brewmaster" kind of thing where people can come and get free advice from people who are successful in the industry. A lot of them are willing to do it for next to nothing. I love an industry where people really show their passion.

I don't think we'll have space for BoP, although the basement may actually be big enough for limited classes (extremely limited). I'm also interested in the bulk malt production that an earlier poster mentioned. I'm going to look into how much space it would demand.
 
There are several HBS's in Chicago and the surrounding area. I would visit all of them. See what they have going on. Note what you like and don't like at each one.

You might learn what NOT to do. This would be quite valuable.
 
Schlenkerla said:
There are several HBS's in Chicago and the surrounding area. I would visit all of them. See what they have going on. Note what you like and don't like at each one.

You might learn what NOT to do. This would be quite valuable.

So far the only one I've found in the city itself is Brew and Grow and another one waaay down south on Western.

If you know of any others within the city proper, would you mind posting them?
 
For bulk malt that was mentioned earlier you don't have to actually make the stuff, you just need room for 3 drums (55 gallon) of liquid malt extract. HBS I used to go to when I first brewed 14 years or so ago sold "bulk" extract, price was nicer than the cans, and I'm sure his margins were better, too.

I know that my company does these team building type things at pretty much every big meeting we have, and one time we were going to "make our own wine" as a team-building event. We didn't actually make wine, but we did go to this place that made wine from juice concentrates and we had wine tasting of about 10 types (all good), and then had a choice of maybe 6 of those 10 that we could personally bottle, cork, and label (with pro looking custom labels that had been pre-made for our group, with company name on them, etc.) It was actually pretty cool, and of course everyone liked the wine tasting part because it got us all buzzed before dinner and drinks at the restaurant/bar next door. We even went to a cigar shop next door (other side) and everyone got a ziplock of about 5 nice handrolled cigars with custom labels (for our group, same idea as the wine place did). You can see here how location was a big factor. If you get creative you can really take this thing to another level profit-wise. Yes, the bread and butter that will pay the bills will be your regular customers, but the gravy money, the icing on the cake, could possibly be these corporate folks with nice budgets to spend for 60-80 folks or whatever to come through over the course of a few consecutive nights...
By the way, the brew on premise idea is not my idea, there's actually a place like that within about 15 miles of where I live -- but I though it was an idea that made sense for a city environment like Chicago.

And I do like your ideas regarding the college crowd, but remember: (1) they are always on low low budget (2) they get drunk and tear stuff up (3) they are fad chasers so you could be swamped for 6 months and then never see them again (or you could be the next big thing for 10 + years!) (4) they are always on low low budget (5) they are going to be under age - if not then they are all in their senior year so you cut your market down to 1/4 of the student (undergrad) population, roughly (6) did I mention they are always on low low budget...
I like how your brain is working, this is how great businesses are built! Keep thinking!
 
PsiWulf7 said:
So far the only one I've found in the city itself is Brew and Grow and another one waaay down south on Western.

If you know of any others within the city proper, would you mind posting them?


Here you go. I just googled to get this.

http://www.beerinfo.com/vlib/homebrew.html

What ever you do, I think your goal should be to try and steal internet business. Make people want to come into the shop. Starting with a welcoming attitude. I like buying local and will pay slightly more for supplies. I like the idea that if Im missing something on brew day I can go get right away.

My local place is OK they have a lot of stuff but the attitude turns people off. Many HB'rs are cheap and will quibble over a few pennies. This guy is jaded by internet business. He claims he can't compete because his wholesaler is far and shipping eats into his profits. He says the best Internet HB Sites are located within miles of the distrubution hub. (JD Carlson)

Just 2 weeks ago. I ask him what he made last. He said "I don't do that crap any more." I drink Natural Light. I'm like what? He proceded to ask what I do for a living and then do I do that at home. My answer was no and goes see what I mean. Mind you he said this in front of 4-5 customers. So why would you shop or take advise from somebody like this?

My point being the attitude will sink the business.
 
This is a very interesting thread, and it looks like you are on your way to ironing out many of these details. I think the BoP idea is very interesting, and the ideas regarding in-store promotions, lessons, gatherings, etc. would be very attractive.

Two side things I've always thought would be very compelling in a brew supply store would be phone support and an 'emergency' delivery service. Both of these services would be geared towards real-time brew-day support. The former functioning exactly how parts of this forum function - fielding on-the-spot questions from customers. Billing for this would be tricky. Do you offer this as a monthy service? A by-the-batch, add $10 to the cost for unlimited calls regarding this brew only? To customers who reach a certain consistent plateau of purchasing?

The latter being a type of service where if one of your customers were brewing on a Saturday morning and realize they, say, forgot to buy their yeast, you could deliver it to them for a fee. This *might* work in a city setting where most of your customers are somewhat geographicaly accessible. Lots of us have had to stop the brewing operation to run back to the store for a grain bag or something. Making it work cost-wise I guess would be the trick, but it would be a kick-aZZ service.

Both of these things are totaly fringe-type ideas that would more make people loyal to the store as opposed to attract them to the store n the first place. And both are, admittedly, high time/expense ideas that might not make 'business' sense. I mention them from a non-businessman point of view (I'm not one!!!).....they are both things that I would have definitely taken advantage of had they been available to me.

Good luck with the whole experience - seems like you will do well!!!
 
LouT said:
As an example, one thing that comes to mind is a brew on premise concept, which may be particularly appealing to city dwellers that have limited apartment space. If you could offer classes, or couples classes, or perhaps "team building events" via group lessons for corporate folks that are in town for conventions, etc., you may be able to build something great for yourself!

FWIW, there's a vintner in downtown Libertyville, up here in the north burbs, that allows people to make their own wine on premises.

And my two cents, I think it will be very difficult to become profitable as a LHBS.

my LHBS shares space with an industrial type operation, and is hoping to expand to another location, but again, will be sharing space with another operation.

We're a very loyal sort, but we also don't want to pay more than we have to, which is why Austin Home Brew is such a formidable online shop. If you're looking for a business model, that's the one to look to.
 
Few problems I see:

1. Wrigleyville is a young, hip, expensive area. Most of the HBers here are 30+, which isn't the Wrigleyville crowd.
2. W-ville is FILLED with bars - good bars like Goose Island. Most people will spend their alcohol budget on going out.
3. Apts there are really small. Few will have the ability to brew in their apts.
4. People there don't drive. It's not exactly thrilling to carry 15 pounds of big bags of grains or DME in the winter time.
5. People go to W-ville to party, not to shop.

A successful LHBS needs two things: highly knowledgable staff and fresh ingredients. You need to turn stuff over pretty quickly or people will just order online. Second, as mentioned, it's typically a Business in a Business. Unless you have a great online presence, you're not going to get enough customers. So you need something else to bring people there - a bike shop, a grow shop - something that fits the homebrew lifestyle.

I think you're better off going to Joliet, Plainfield or some other burb about 20-30 miles out.
 
If anything you should try to get a liquor sales license and sell micro beer in the shop. Don't know if this is possible or not but it would be a one stop shop for brewers. Buy your supplies and craft beer in the same trip. Wow. Now if this idea is a success I expect one free six pack a month... :mug:

I know the Brewers Coop sells Two Bros beer there but they always only have 2 or 3 of the numerous types of beer they brew. And everytime I've been to the Brewers Coop most of the DME is hard as a rock.
 
Cheesefood said:
Few problems I see:

1. Wrigleyville is a young, hip, expensive area. Most of the HBers here are 30+, which isn't the Wrigleyville crowd.
2. W-ville is FILLED with bars - good bars like Goose Island. Most people will spend their alcohol budget on going out.
3. Apts there are really small. Few will have the ability to brew in their apts.
4. People there don't drive. It's not exactly thrilling to carry 15 pounds of big bags of grains or DME in the winter time.
5. People go to W-ville to party, not to shop.

A successful LHBS needs two things: highly knowledgable staff and fresh ingredients. You need to turn stuff over pretty quickly or people will just order online. Second, as mentioned, it's typically a Business in a Business. Unless you have a great online presence, you're not going to get enough customers. So you need something else to bring people there - a bike shop, a grow shop - something that fits the homebrew lifestyle.

I think you're better off going to Joliet, Plainfield or some other burb about 20-30 miles out.

I agree with everything posted here.

Was just too lazy to take the time to type it all.

I think any LHBS would be better off out in the burbs.

Not to mention, older folks like us LOL have more disposable LMAO income. :drunk:
 
ill.literate said:
I agree with everything posted here.

Was just too lazy to take the time to type it all.

I think any LHBS would be better off out in the burbs.

Not to mention, older folks like us LOL have more disposable LMAO income. :drunk:

Not to mention that none of the apts have central air, and no one leaves on a window AC unit when they're not home. It easily hits 80-90º in the summer.

It's a nice thought though, and it'd be fun to open a storefront there.
 
Cheesefood said:
It's a nice thought though, and it'd be fun to open a storefront there.

Which brings up a good point if you are sold on this location and it sounds like you are. (Bear with the gender stereotyping here.) You need to have a storefront that is approachable to men and women, so that men will go in and the women won't object to going in because they can shop for something too (glassware, I don't know.) Make the store window look more like Pottery Barn than some RPG Dungeons & Dragons hovel. In your area look for stores that cater to couples and emulate that.

The first time I took SWMBO to the LHBS she looked at the storefront and elected to stay in the car, needless to say, I didn't stay or spend as much time or money as I normally would.

And don't be cranky.

Answer some n00b questions here for a few hours and see if you're still smiling.
 
Well you never know until you try. I know a lot hangs in the balance, but if you have a good feel for your demographic, have a good location and the experience of running a business behind you that is a big portion of the battle. Keep your stock as simple as possible. The biggest fault I see is that HBS's that try to carry everything under the sun and they end up losing the quality. David makes some very sound advice on the LME.

I would also make it very clear you can special order anything under the sun and have good relationships with suppliers already so that there is the minimum lag time for such orders. Also another thing, consider adding some glassware as it doesn't go bad and from time to time folks search this stuff out. I for one have had one heck of a time finding good glassware in my area.

Another idea would be to look into organizing bulk buys for people and collect a percentage from that for setting it up. It would be a great way to get folks into the store and once they are there, knowing they are saving money on bulk grain purchases they will most likely be more apt to buy other stuff with the 'money they saved'. Perhaps investing in a cryovac and then repackaging grain is another good avenue. On average bulk grain can be had for .40 to .60 per lb, but when repackaged goes from around 1.10 to way up to close to 2.00.
 
I have a different experiance with my LHBS. They are cluttered and messy and located between strip clubs in a bad part of town. I have to drive a long ways because I am out of the way. If I have the time I do it because they save me on shipping and I can't get bottles anywhere else. Now a benefit is they are really nice and they have a small kids play area so I can bring my kids and they don't get into anything.

Bottom line is start the shop because you want to. If you make it it will be because you found a good market and you serve them well. A good business makes it because of the decisions you make not just because of the worth of your idea. Market well and do all the things good stores do. There are no secrets.

Now I do agree on the need of an online presence its a must the LHBS does not have it and I would order everthing from them just because they are local and I know the people. Also you should offer me free shipping. Just think about it :p

Offer monthly classes I think that helps get people excited. I think more people would love to brew and see how easy it is so if you can teach more people you can create a larger market. I think you could do well. Good luck!
 
I don't know man. HB supplies are a commodity. The trick to making it is VOLUME: move more so it's cheaper. You already know the max you can charge.

How many sales do you think a LHBS makes on average? Maybe one or two brews per day? So that's anywhere from $20-$45 on an average day.

Make money by selling equipment. Know how to weld? Start building keggles. I'd drive into the city to buy one - or some cornies - if it was cheaper then paying for shipping. Build some kettles. But that also brings up another W-ville disdvantage - no parking.

You know what WOULD be fun to own? A Grill N' Brew store that sells grills and grilling utensils (in the summer), seasonal winter items, and homebrew supplies.
 
Cheesefood said:
Few problems I see:

1. Wrigleyville is a young, hip, expensive area. Most of the HBers here are 30+, which isn't the Wrigleyville crowd.
2. W-ville is FILLED with bars - good bars like Goose Island. Most people will spend their alcohol budget on going out.
3. Apts there are really small. Few will have the ability to brew in their apts.
4. People there don't drive. It's not exactly thrilling to carry 15 pounds of big bags of grains or DME in the winter time.
5. People go to W-ville to party, not to shop.

A successful LHBS needs two things: highly knowledgable staff and fresh ingredients. You need to turn stuff over pretty quickly or people will just order online. Second, as mentioned, it's typically a Business in a Business. Unless you have a great online presence, you're not going to get enough customers. So you need something else to bring people there - a bike shop, a grow shop - something that fits the homebrew lifestyle.

I think you're better off going to Joliet, Plainfield or some other burb about 20-30 miles out.

All very valid points, and things that I've given at least some consideration to.

1. Having lived on the edge of Wrigleyville myself, I've found that only the newer condos on the east side are extremely expensive. You can find great apartments at reasonable prices all over the area. As for the young and hip, half of my brewing friends live in Wrigley/Lakeview and make a pretty good go of it.

2. It's definitely filled with bars. And cubs fans. A lot of those older fans are hombrewers, and they'd be walking by my storefront to and from games, bars, and Bacci's. In my experience the "alcohol budget" and the homebrewing budget are two different things. The guys that I know separate grabbing a pint at a bar from brewing. They're both beer related, but they're otherwise totally different categories of expense. You should also keep in mind that Wrigleyville is getting a bit older, and is brimming with late 20s/early 30s yuppies with a fair amount of disposable income, as well as college students who think Mr. Beer is the greatest thing since Guinness in a can.

3. My apt. near Wrigley was huge, and most of the apartments I've seen have had more than enough space to brew in. I've been brewing in apartments for almost two years now. You'd be surprised how little space it takes up when you are willing to be just a little industrious.

4. People in Wrigley definitely drive. Parking in Wrigley in the most off hours imaginable in hell. Even if they didn't drive, it wouldn't hurt all that much, because we'll be offering delivery service for a very nominal fee. We've even thought about offering rides to customers who purchase more than they can carry while in the store. There's some liability there, but it's worth the loyalty.

5. Thousands of people live and work in Wrigleyville, it's actually one of the most lucrative economic areas in the Northside - lake corridor. There are boutique clothing stores, wine shops, small delis and eateries. Outside of Friday and Saturday nights it's a very normal slice of near-north Chicago. Friday and Saturday nights make me want to go on yuppie killing sprees, but we'd be closed by 8 or 9 on those days, anyway, which would give us a solid hour buffer.

As for the other poster's comment on making the storefront appealing, I couldn't agree more! The locations we're looking at have exposed brick walls, hardwood floors, bay window fronts and beautiful natural lighting. We plan on putting some of our non-brewing stuff up front, and possibly carrying some glassware, pending a little more market research. I plan on buying wooden shelves with "wrought iron" frames (the cheap kind that are actually black powder coated aluminum) and we've talked about putting out a few hanging plants (we've seen a number of affordable places that have lofted ceilings). We're definitely looking at carrying a significant amount of winemaking supplies, as well, which has a higher price tag and less price-conscious consumers, to some extent.

Again, major thanks to everyone for some great advice, you've all given me a lot to think about. Keep on discussing! :mug:
 
Having lived in Wiggleyville in my younger days, I have to say I agree with Cheese. I think if you want a place in the city limits on or near the north side, Jefferson Park or Edison Park - someplace where people have homes and can actually drive from place to place - would be a better choice. And don't kid yourself - you will be competing with the better Internet Homebrew sites out there. Austin Homebrew Supply, Beer, Beer & More Beer, Northern Brewer and Freshops all rank high.

Locally, The Brewer's Coop in Warrenville, Brew & Grow in Schaumburg, The Homebrew Shop in St. Charles and Chicagoland Winemakers in Elmhurst are the best LHBS' in the area, IMHO. You should take a trip out to each. Chicagoland Winemakers has been in business for a very long time. I bought a kit from then with a buddy of mine back when I was in college - in 1978!



 
Cheesefood said:
I don't know man. HB supplies are a commodity. The trick to making it is VOLUME: move more so it's cheaper. You already know the max you can charge.

How many sales do you think a LHBS makes on average? Maybe one or two brews per day? So that's anywhere from $20-$45 on an average day.

Make money by selling equipment. Know how to weld? Start building keggles. I'd drive into the city to buy one - or some cornies - if it was cheaper then paying for shipping. Build some kettles. But that also brings up another W-ville disdvantage - no parking.

You know what WOULD be fun to own? A Grill N' Brew store that sells grills and grilling utensils (in the summer), seasonal winter items, and homebrew supplies.

That is an awesome idea. I'm going to look into that. I've actually had the idea for a grilling store before, but I don't know how viable it would be in Chicago. I HAVE thought about doing custom wine and beer racks.
 
Rhoobarb said:
Having lived in Wiggleyville in my younger days, I have to say I agree with Cheese. I think if you want a place in the city limits on or near the north side, Jefferson Park or Edison Park - someplace where people have homes and can actually drive from place to place - would be a better choice. And don't kid yourself - you will be competing with the better Internet Homebrew sites out there. Austin Homebrew Supply, Beer, Beer & More Beer, Northern Brewer and Freshops all rank high.

Locally, The Brewer's Coop in Warrenville, Brew & Grow in Schaumburg, The Homebrew Shop in St. Charles and Chicagoland Winemakers in Elmhurst are the best LHBS' in the area, IMHO. You should take a trip out to each. Chicagoland Winemakers has been in business for a very long time. I bought a kit from then with a buddy of mine back when I was in college - in 1978!





That's great! We've been talking about taking a trip to those stores for a while, and we've finally planned it for the coming two weekends.
 
Don't give the brew-on-premises too much thought. They take WAY too much initial investment and rarely pay for themselves. There's a reason why most go out of business fairly quickly.

You could host new brewer parties, lessons, seminars, discussion panels, etc. Don't overlook the power of education to make someone spend money. If you sell immersion wort chillers, for example, give a class on how a proper cold-break improves your beer (complete with samples given out from two batches of the same beer one using a chiller, the other using an ice-bath). Don't make it a sales pitch since people can see right through that, but if you educate them many will see the actual value of the product and purchase it.

Oh, BTW... GOOD LUCK. It will be hard work, but with the right planning and decisions you'll make it. :mug:
 
PsiWulf7 said:
It's hard to communicate tone on the internet...:drunk: I was trying to be succinct as opposed to cranky. Sorry!

Yeah I think it was a tone thing. There was another thread a while back about cranky HBS owners who looked down on their customers with scorn and contempt instead of being helpful and knowledgeable. I think he was making a joke that you shouldn't be one of those owners.:D
 
Orpheus said:
Yeah I think it was a tone thing. There was another thread a while back about cranky HBS owners who looked down on their customers with scorn and contempt instead of being helpful and knowledgeable. I think he was making a joke that you shouldn't be one of those owners.:D

Woops!
Whoa!

How'd I miss that. Orpheus is right. That's exactly how I meant it.

PsiWulf7, my apologies about that.

That's why I re-itereated about answering n00b Q's and still be smiling. IMO you have to be that type of person.

:mug:
 
Fish said:
I have a different experiance with my LHBS. They are cluttered and messy and located between strip clubs in a bad part of town.

Please tell me the city you live in. Average salary range. And directions to THAT homebrew store! And can I crash at your place till I can find a job?

My LHBS (well 2 of them) are either 15 miles up into the farm country with just country roads and cattle, or 45 minutes away on the other side of the beltway.

I'd KILL to have one of them near my favorite bar...
 

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