Wiring Diagrams

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Rickochet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
106
Reaction score
3
Location
Marion
I have been searching through threads & posts for the vast amount of wiring diagrams. The majority of them are generated by P-J who provides a very clear picture for the entire panel and associated wire. Is there a way to search only for the wiring diagrams that are available with out looking though each post? Does anyone have all of the wiring diagrams readily available in one common location?

If not, I could see such a thread to be a huge time saver! Thanks
 
tell us what you're looking for and maybe we can find one to suit your needs.
 
Here's the plan:

240 volt 50 Amp GFI Spa Panel
6/3 with ground conductor
50 Amp main control power contactor with 120 volt coil
Main power switch
4 30 amp breakers
1 20 amp breaker
1 1 amp fuse for E-stop
1 12 pole terminal block
2 2362 PID's
2 Switches to control PID Power
2 40 Amp SSR
2 30 Amp contactors to control element power 240 volt coils
2 Switches to control Element contactors
2 5500 Watt Elements
2 Pumps
2 Switches to control pumps
1 E-stop Switch
6 LED's to indicate power for control switches
2 30 Amp 240 volt receptacles
2 20 Amp 120 volt receptacles
2 RTD thermocouples
 
I'd switch out the 2362's for 2352's. They are easier to put into manual mode. The only thing you're missing is a timer. Have you considered using an Auber SWA-2451? PID + Timer.
 
I'd switch out the 2362's for 2352's. They are easier to put into manual mode. The only thing you're missing is a timer. Have you considered using an Auber SWA-2451? PID + Timer.

I already have the 2362's and all of the other items listed. All I need is the wiring schematic and I will be rolling. Thanks!
 
Rick,

Got your PM. It'll take me some time and I'll work on it for you.

Based on your plan for 6 LED indicator lights, I'm thinking that the switches you chose to use are:
Auber Instruments - Selector Switch, 2-Position Maintained 2 NO - SW4 units.

Is that correct?

Also, what switch are you planning to use for the main power switch - The SW8 Key Switch or something else?

Edit: Your contactors have 240V coils. Correct? You already purchased them? Reason I'm asking is that might change your switch configuration and would possibly need additional modules for the control switches. Also do you have 2 or 3 total contactors? Please let me know.

P-J

Here's the plan:

240 volt 50 Amp GFI Spa Panel
6/3 with ground conductor
50 Amp main control power contactor with 120 volt coil
Main power switch
4 30 amp breakers
1 20 amp breaker
1 1 amp fuse for E-stop
1 12 pole terminal block
2 2362 PID's
2 Switches to control PID Power
2 40 Amp SSR
2 30 Amp contactors to control element power 240 volt coils
2 Switches to control Element contactors
2 5500 Watt Elements
2 Pumps
2 Switches to control pumps
1 E-stop Switch
6 LED's to indicate power for control switches
2 30 Amp 240 volt receptacles
2 20 Amp 120 volt receptacles
2 RTD thermocouples​
 
P-J,
Thanks for the fast reply with the questions for clarification. Some of the components may be a little different from the typical because I had most of them readily available from previous projects. The only items I had to buy were the PID's, RTD thermocouples & the GFI spa panel.

I noted the additional details in red text. If you need more info, please let me know. Thanks again!

240 volt 50 Amp GFI Spa Panel--Home Depot, Already installed w/ receptacle to accept plug from control panel
6/3 with ground conductor--Hard wired to control panel contactor; other end, 50 amp plug to connect to the spa receptacle
50 Amp main control power contactor with 120 volt coil
Main power switch--Simple SPST NO switch to control main contactor
4 30 amp breakers
1 20 amp breaker
1 1 amp fuse for E-stop
1 12 pole terminal block
2 2362 PID's
2 Switches to control PID Power--SPST NO switch
2 40 Amp SSR
2 30 Amp contactors to control element power 240 volt coils--240v coils because I already had these in my spare parts stash
2 Switches to control Element contactors--SPST NO switch
2 5500 Watt Elements--Connected to 30 amp receptacles
2 Pumps--Connected to 20 amp receptacles
2 Switches to control pumps--SPST NO switch
1 E-stop Switch--Momentary NO push button switch
6 LED's to indicate power for controlled devices--2 240v red for element on indication, 2 120v yellow for pump on indication, 1 120v green for panel on/in operation indication (main contactor closed), 1 120v blue for power indication available from Spa panel (main contactor open)
2 30 Amp 240 volt receptacles
2 20 Amp 120 volt receptacles
2 RTD thermocouples
 
2 Switches to control Element contactors--SPST NO switch
Can you add a module to that switch to make it a DPST? Reason I'm asking is it is being used to energize a 240V contactor coil. The switch needs to be a DPST unit so that both lines going to the contactor are interupted when switched off.

BTW: Do you have a link to the switch so that I can see it?

P-J
 
Rick,

I need to know about the switches that you will be using (Links would help a lot so that I can see them and provide the proper information in the diagram.) so that I can make the diagram for you. Without that info I'm at a dead stand still.

It's up to you.
 
P-J,
The switches are Cutler-Hammer stack type and I can easily change the contact blocks to make a DPST. I do not have an exact link to them as they are older New Old Stock switches, however they are similar to this switch. http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/eaton30mm2select.pdf
Rick,

Thank you. I appreciate that. I've been working for several hours today trying to piece together a good diagram for you. It is rather complex to piece together during the design phase but I'm getting there. It will be quite a while until I get to the finish line.

Please be patient.

P-J
 
P-J,
I certainly appreciate the time you take to help out so many fellow brewers! I am not in a huge rush--please take your time. And again--THANKS!
 
Rick,

Wow... I cannot believe the mind jumps I went through to come up with a diagram that I HOPE is what you are looking for. The contactors with the 240V coils threw me big time. The diagram is based on your planned mission and description. It's also based on my understand of the parts you have already to get the build done.

HD Spa Panel wiring:

power-panel-5.jpg



Then the diagram: As always - click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper. (11" x 17")



I hope this fits your needs. Please let me know.

I wish you great success in your build.

P-J
 
P-J....You hit the bulls-eye!!!! Precisely what I was looking for! Thank you so much!!!! Once again, you have helped keep electric brewing alive!
:mug:
 
P-J....You hit the bulls-eye!!!! Precisely what I was looking for! Thank you so much!!!! Once again, you have helped keep electric brewing alive!
:mug:
Welcome.

I think you now understand how very complex that plan was to understand and then draw. It was a woofer (Imagine a wolf howling at the moon) for me.

P-J
 
I have been searching through threads & posts for the vast amount of wiring diagrams. The majority of them are generated by P-J who provides a very clear picture for the entire panel and associated wire. Is there a way to search only for the wiring diagrams that are available with out looking though each post? Does anyone have all of the wiring diagrams readily available in one common location?

If not, I could see such a thread to be a huge time saver! Thanks

I am amazed that PJ is doing all this work. I second the notion that a Sticky thread with all the diagrams he's posted be created. I am in the (rough) planning stages of my build and I'm confident the diagram already exists in one form or another.

I might take a shot at web crawling all his posts to see what I can find to put in a thread.

BTW PJ should be getting commission from HBT and others.
 
This is great work P-J.

I am in the middle of building my rig and I'm just started considering dropping the gas route and focusing on an electrical route with two elements like you nicely drawn here.

Any one dared to do a rough price calculation of these components.

Secondly I know, by reading other threads, that P-J recommends using a spa panel. Any particular model ?

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...eyword=Spa+Panel&storeId=10051#specifications

Is the main reason the cost ? Breaker cost vs. Spa Panel cost ?

Bare with me here, hope is not way off topic.

My main question is how do I get 240V out of the main panel since I have no 240V outlet by the main panel. I see a thick wire going up from the panel but no outlet around the main panel.

I still think I need to put in a break in the main panel and add a 240 outlet and if I do that why would I need the spa panel. I plan to brew in the same room with the main panel, 5 feet away.

Thanks and keep up the good post!
Q
 
Spa panel houses the GFCI breaker. Usually cheaper than a GFCI breaker for your main service panel.

You need GFCI somewhere on the way to your control panel (even if just inline power cord, like Kal's setup).
 
Another work of art from P-J. I would happily blow that up to poster size and put it on the wall. :ban:

I know it was not in the design specs but my preference would be to use a 3-phase 240V contactor and use the 3rd switch as a latch for the coil with a momentary on switch setting the latch and E-stop cutting power to the coil.
 
Spa panel houses the GFCI breaker. Usually cheaper than a GFCI breaker for your main service panel.

You need GFCI somewhere on the way to your control panel (even if just inline power cord, like Kal's setup).

Right but regardless I'd need a breaker (non GFCI in the main panel) I am sure this was discusses somewhere in these long posts.
 
You absolutely need a breaker in the panel, and could choose to make that breaker your single GFCI for the whole system... for me, it was cheaper to buy a spa panel with 50A GFCI breaker, a regular 50A non-GFCI breaker for my panel, and 15 feet of 6/4 wire, than to buy a 30A GFCI breaker for the panel by itself and 15 feet of 10/4 wire. I still don't understand why the pricing works like that, but it ended up giving me future expansion flexibility for my 5500W system.

:mug:
 
So I wanted to throw this out there, and have a pro take a look at it.

My questions are:

A) With 2 5500w elements @ 240v - I'm looking at roughly 44 amps combined. With both chuggers, a total of 47. Call it 50 with the vent fan and some lights. The rule of thumb is add 25% to get breaker value, right? 62.5... Is a 60 amp spa panel going to cut it, or will I be spiking it and potentially be shut off?

2) If I have the spa panel - more breakers seems excessive. I get redundancy, but is is really necessary? Does this make it safer somehow? Everyone seems to suggest having breakers directly in the panel.

D) Is there any limit on distance from the spa panel? Like, if my main panel is in the basement and this is going in the garage, does it matter if the sub panel is in the basement or garage? Simplicity for reset suggests to put it in the garage, but do I have to have it a certain distance from the main panel instead?

Schematic JPG:
Brew-Panel-v5---WIRING.jpg


PDFs attached:

The panel I designed. I already own the panel and just about every component. I'm having the cover cut out with a waterjet so I don't have to drill and dremel 9 million holes.

The schematic. It's not the prettiest thing in the world. I used Microsoft Visio basically because it's all I have. Curious if there's any good freeware schematic software out there. I'm always doing diagrams for DC automotive applications. It'd be nice to have a better software. Thigs may look crammed but the schematic is loosely based on where components will physically sit - to make wiring day possibly a tad easier.

Thanks guys.

View attachment Brew Panel v5.pdf

View attachment Brew Panel v5 - WIRING.pdf
 
IANAE (I am not an electrician), but my understanding is that the 25% rule applies to continuous loads of 3 hours or more, and an SSR switching on and off does not qualify. I would think 60a would be plenty.
 
Back
Top