Fermented Cactus Juice?

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HenryHill

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The movie 'Hombre', Paul Newman-1967.

In it, some pendehos were harassing some Indians quietly drinking their mescal in a bar. The pendehos were questioning them about their beverage and one said it isn't acceptable for Indians being in bar drinking, they must have got their courage from drinking a 'cactus juice'; something that sounded like 'tiswah'.

Google don't know no 'tiswah'. :(

WTF is this stuff and how is it spelled?
 
pulque is amazing when you get it fresh. it's sweet and refreshing, almost like a honey flavored water. problem is, it doesn't take long for it to go sour. so, after more than about 24 hrs or so, it just takes like sour orange juice. so obvious it doesn't travel well, and alot of times people blend it with fruit juice (pineapple, orange, etc) to take that edge off, but imo by then it just tastes rank. but the fresh stuff, oh man is that gooood. and since it's like drinking water, it sneaks up on ya like crazy!
 
I know of pulque, but they called this 'tiswah', and it was old west Indians-not Mexico or Central America.

And they disitinctly called it 'cactus juice'.

I figured some of you desert members would have heard of it.

Hard to google it when I can't literally spell it, only phonetically spell it. :p
 
How about Agave which I just learned is not a cactus although it's commonly mis-construed to be one? Maybe that's what they were alluding to.

I've seen beer and mead recipes with agave.

Agave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nevermind, apparently Agave is used for Pulque.
 
[snip]...'tiswah'.....[/snip]
Hard to google it when I can't literally spell it, only phonetically spell it. :p

I had read about "tiswin" in some books about Cochise and Geronimo and asked some of my Apache friends about it, they called it "corn beer."

Wiki says it's also the Tohono-O'odham make it with saguaro fruit

Tiswin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Interesting. I lived in Tucson (Sonoran Desert) for two years and never heard of it. Prickly pear wine, yes. Maybe they don't share, since it's sacred.
 
I had read about "tiswin" in some books about Cochise and Geronimo and asked some of my Apache friends about it, they called it "corn beer."

Wiki says it's also the Tohono-O'odham make it with saguaro fruit

Tiswin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds awfully close-I think you are on to something, there.:)

Seems to have two meanings-a corn drink by pueblos,and a saguaro drink from the Apaches.
 
RESIST PROHIBITION! - Exotic Homebrew Recipes

Tiswin

"Tiswin" is a fermented beverage made by the Papago Indians of northern Mexico and southern Arizona from the pulp of saguaro cactus fruit. A syrup is made from the fruit pulp by slowly cooking one part water to two parts pulp for 1 to 2 hours. The resulting syrup is then used to make the tiswin. If you can not obtain saguaro cactus fruit pulp syrup (and who can?), prickly pear cactus fruit can be used as an alternative (if you can even get that).

Ingredients:

* 8 quarts saguaro cactus fruit pulp (or prickly pear cactus fruit pulp)
* 4 quarts water
* yeast

Instructions:

1. Mix the fruit pulp and water and bring it to a boil.

2. Reduce the heat and slowly cook the mixture for 1-2 hours.

3. Allow the mixture to cool enough to strain it then return it to a slow boil for another hour.

4. Cool the mixture to 70ºF then strain it into a fermenter and pitch the yeast.
5. Allow the beer to ferment completely then bottle and condition before drinking.
 
Tiswin (Traditional Pueblo Corn Drink)

Tiswin (Traditional Pueblo Corn Drink)


Title: Tiswin (Traditional Pueblo Corn Drink)
Categories: Native, Pixel


5 lbs dried white corn
2 gallons water
1 1/2 c brown sugar
2 dried orange peels
3 cinnamon sticks
1 t ground cloves


Oven-roast corn at 300 degrees until light brown, stirring frequently. Grind
coarsely in food chopper or in small quantities in blender. Wash (using several
rinses, clean water each time), and discard hulls.
Put in crock and stir in water and other ingredients. Cover and let sit in a barely
warm place for five or six days or until fermented. Strain through cheesecloth
and serve.
 
Tiswin encyclopedia topics | Reference.com

Tiswin is a North American Indian alcoholic beverage brewed from corn.

Tiswin is the sacred saguaro beer/wine of the Papagos.

The saguaro, the largest cactus in the world, is in many respects the sacred tree of the Papago, and from its fruits they make a sacred fermentation called tiswin or sometimes nawai.
Trivia
An inability to obtain tiswin was one of the reasons Geronimo and others left their reservation and attempted to return to the land of their ancestors.
 
glad that I could help get the ball rolling on your research! I had found some recipes for the corn beer, but never had heard of the saguaro fruit recipe.

This "trivia" statement is pretty funny though:

An inability to obtain tiswin was one of the reasons Geronimo and others left their reservation and attempted to return to the land of their ancestors.

I think Geromino made a break for it because the white people were killing, raping, and pillaging their people....

I've read many sources that the Apache made Tiswin in Arizona, and heck, I know some guys that still try (they say it results in a very mild drunk, with a very massive hangover!)
 
Where did pueblos get cloves, oranges, brown sugar and cinnamon?
:confused:

Tiswin (Traditional Pueblo Corn Drink)


5 lbs dried white corn
2 gallons water
1 1/2 c brown sugar
2 dried orange peels
3 cinnamon sticks
1 t ground cloves

Oven-roast corn at 300 degrees until light brown, stirring frequently. Grind
coarsely in food chopper or in small quantities in blender. Wash (using several
rinses, clean water each time), and discard hulls.
Put in crock and stir in water and other ingredients. Cover and let sit in a barely
warm place for five or six days or until fermented. Strain through cheesecloth
and serve.
 
Probably not the most useful thing I could have learned today, but it's number one for the coolest.

I Love learning random crap at HBT.
 
Where did pueblos get cloves, oranges, brown sugar and cinnamon?
:confused:

Tiswin (Traditional Pueblo Corn Drink)


5 lbs dried white corn
2 gallons water
1 1/2 c brown sugar
2 dried orange peels
3 cinnamon sticks
1 t ground cloves

Oven-roast corn at 300 degrees until light brown, stirring frequently. Grind
coarsely in food chopper or in small quantities in blender. Wash (using several
rinses, clean water each time), and discard hulls.
Put in crock and stir in water and other ingredients. Cover and let sit in a barely
warm place for five or six days or until fermented. Strain through cheesecloth
and serve.

Of course the whitey's bastardized the recipe along with nearly exterminating the Apache's.

here's what my Apache sources have given me - basically ground corn and mescal root/stalk
 
Probably not the most useful thing I could have learned today, but it's number one for the coolest.

I Love learning random crap at HBT.

how cool is this:

"First, they soaked the corn overnight in water. They dug a long trench and lined it with grass, placed the soaked corn in the trench, and covered it with another layer of grass. Sometimes they covered the whole with earth or a blanket. After sprinkling the corn with water morning and evening for ten days, during which it sprouted, they took it out, ground it with their grinding stones (mano and metate), and the boiled it for five hours. Finally, they strained off the liquid and set it aside. After about twenty-four hours, when it stopped bubbling, it was ready to drink." (From Geronimo by Angie Debo, p. 22)
 
Had to bump this one,as a buddy & I on here are researching the drink of our ancestors called tizwin,pronounced tizween. Kiowa,Apache,& Commanche are all of the athabascan people who crossed the bearing straight land bridge into North America some 35,000 years ago. tiswin is the mexican native counterpart of the drink that used corn & cactus,or North American aloe bulb sliced,roasted,& boiled.
The corn beer our ancestors new was dried on the stalk,then soaked till sprouted,& dried in the sun. Then ground (I think cracking it in a mill would be interesting) Boiled till reduced about 50%. Then cold water added to that. It was then dumped in a barrel,& the process repeated till the barrel was full.
We're wondering what sort of lambic yeast to use to ferment it in the modern context??? Still waiting for answers from Midwest,but we've def got their interest. We just wanna pit bbq some food,drink Tizwin,& speak of the old ones. Kinda our way of honoring our ancestors with something unknown to the white side of our family.
 
anahtaho wahtassa may! (It doesn't get any better than this!)....what he said! We have the urge to produce the old drink. Anybody have any input to aid us in our search for information? It'll be appreciated and acted upon.
 
how cool is this:

"First, they soaked the corn overnight in water. They dug a long trench and lined it with grass, placed the soaked corn in the trench, and covered it with another layer of grass. Sometimes they covered the whole with earth or a blanket. After sprinkling the corn with water morning and evening for ten days, during which it sprouted, they took it out, ground it with their grinding stones (mano and metate), and the boiled it for five hours. Finally, they strained off the liquid and set it aside. After about twenty-four hours, when it stopped bubbling, it was ready to drink." (From Geronimo by Angie Debo, p. 22)

That's how I remember my Granpa doing it, when I was about 8. Yes, it is a mild drunk with a hell of a hangover. Gramma was PO'd! But, Granpa showed me an "Old Way" thru this process...
 
I was wondering also,that another link described a similar drink to Tizwin that had spices added to it that was said to resemble an English beer. Columbus' log,I think...Gotta look at my e-mail again. It was a few page exerpt from another book.
 
Great Morning...This is my first post, ever. While watching Geronimo there was a blurb about tiswan, and that it was a fermented cactus fruit beverage. This was the first wine I had ever made, and this was the first time I had known there was a name for it. The only reason I made it, was because we had so much jelly already, and I didn't want to see these beautiful 'cactus figs' go to waste. Didn't know what I was doing, but the wine was such a success, it ended up prompting my addiction to winemaking. I still don't know what I am doing, but I learn a little more, every day. Especially my daily reads on this site. The fruit is bountiful in the south, just make sure that you get those awful spines off. I roast them off over an open flame, then put them through the juicer. The color is the most beautiful magenta I have ever seen. Then I pulled a basic wine recipe out of 'Back to Basics' and strained and strained, and backsweetend (didn't know there was a name for that either) and strained some more. Then we drank it til it was gone. I can hardly wait til September and I am scoping out more cactus sites as we speak!!! Thank you for this forum.
 
RESIST PROHIBITION! - Exotic Homebrew Recipes

Tiswin

"Tiswin" is a fermented beverage made by the Papago Indians of northern Mexico and southern Arizona from the pulp of saguaro cactus fruit. A syrup is made from the fruit pulp by slowly cooking one part water to two parts pulp for 1 to 2 hours. The resulting syrup is then used to make the tiswin. If you can not obtain saguaro cactus fruit pulp syrup (and who can?), prickly pear cactus fruit can be used as an alternative (if you can even get that).

Ingredients:

* 8 quarts saguaro cactus fruit pulp (or prickly pear cactus fruit pulp)
* 4 quarts water
* yeast

Instructions:

1. Mix the fruit pulp and water and bring it to a boil.

2. Reduce the heat and slowly cook the mixture for 1-2 hours.

3. Allow the mixture to cool enough to strain it then return it to a slow boil for another hour.

4. Cool the mixture to 70ºF then strain it into a fermenter and pitch the yeast.
5. Allow the beer to ferment completely then bottle and condition before drinking.

Hi Henry - I have a question about your Tiswin recipe using prickly pears. What type of yeast do you use? How much for this recipe - a whole packet? Can I use my regular primary fermenter that I use for 6 gallon batches of wine? Or should I use a smaller one since your recipe is for only 3 gallons? Would it benefit by a primary and secondary fermentation? Do you ever add sugar or honey? If so,how much? Any other helpful tips?

I have prickly pears coming out of my ears this year - getting tired of making jelly and sorbet - what a great recipe to come across - thanks for posting!

Deb
 
Hi Henry - I have a question about your Tiswin recipe using prickly pears. What type of yeast do you use? How much for this recipe - a whole packet? Can I use my regular primary fermenter that I use for 6 gallon batches of wine? Or should I use a smaller one since your recipe is for only 3 gallons? Would it benefit by a primary and secondary fermentation? Do you ever add sugar or honey? If so,how much? Any other helpful tips?

I have prickly pears coming out of my ears this year - getting tired of making jelly and sorbet - what a great recipe to come across - thanks for posting!

Deb
 
Sumo, I used Red Star Champagne yeast for mine, this year I will try Premier Cuvee. I added sugar to mine (two cups at first, in syrup form [2 cups sugar to 1/2 pint water]} and backsweetened it with two more cups after two weeks, but I prefer a sweet wine to a dry one) and racked it every week for a month and a half. I didn't clear as much as I wanted it too, but I was too impatient, I wanted a glass so bad. Drank it all! So glad, that I too, have a gazillion of those wonderful fruits this year!!! Good Luck! -Annie
 
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