Did my First all grain but have some questions

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JeffBeck

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First all grain & my OSG is low.

I got a kit from Austin homebrew for Sierra Nevada Torpedo. 5 gal batch
I had some temp issues getting the Mash temp down to start with after I mixed in the grain. The worksheet I used told me with a 73F grain temp to mash in 164F to get a mash temp of 150F
Well it was hot about 160F after mixed in and I added ice to get it down to 150 but it took me about 10 min or more to get it down. Mash was 60 min.
Boil was 60 min

Really screwed up and forgot to take a OSG reading after chiller cool down and pitched my 2 vials of white labs calif ale yeast WLpoo1 at 79F ( i took yeast out of the fridg at 9am and it was now 9 pm when pitched).

This AM i remembered i had not taken a OSG so I took one and got 1.050
the work sheet that came with the kit said OSG should be 1.072
I don't see any yeast activity yet but the work sheet says it should start in 12 - 36 hrs.
Why would my osg be so far off and is there anything I should do at this point?
Thanks
 
Did you sparge at all? How many, and what where the temps there? Did you have to add any top off water? How about your mash tun design? How about the crush, do you think it was adequate? There's a lot of variables when looking at sugar extraction from grain.

I would doubt you were ever up around 1.072, the yeast probably didn't eat that much that quickly. I would leave it alone, only because I wouldn't know what to do. I guess you could always add some sugar to get you yeast to produce more alcohol, but I don't know what it would do to the flavor.

Sounds like you had a overall successful first AG experience though, got beer in the fermenter! Nice work. Chalk this one up to a learning experience, and try to improve your process for next time.
 
For a first all-grain, having a lower OG than the estimated or recommended OG is pretty common. It most likely means your efficiency wasn't that good. It's best to explain your technique thoroughly, so that those more experienced than me can help out. According to Austin Homebrew, your total grain bill was 14lb? I imagine you followed the recommended amount given for mash and sparge water needed. Did you mash in a cooler or on a stove? What was your sparging technique?

As far as mashing goes, there is no real way to tell that the recommended 60 minutes was enough to convert the sugars of your grains. A great way to tell if you have fully converted is to take a small drop of your mash (60 minutes in), make sure there are no grains in the sample, place it on a white plate and drop a single drop of iodine on the sample. If there is any black in it then the conversion is still underway. If it's a solid dark red then you are good.
 
I agree with whoneedsabeer. I would leave it as it is. Adding sugar can lead to off-flavors. If it turns out okay, then you should mark it as a success. I had to toss my very first all-grain for reasons I am still unclear on. Let me add that another reason for low efficiency can be the quality of the grains, but since we all love Austin Homebrew (they are listening) then I would assume that was not the case.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I will try and explain what I did.
My mash ton is a 45 qt cooler with the mesh toilet line as the filter.
My technique was heat my water to 164F 14 lb. grain so I mashed in with the 1.25 quarts per pound and I was supposed to get a 150F temp.
Grain was crushed at Austin Homebrew.

I added the water to the cooler and closed the lid for 3 min to heat up then stirred in grain and left thermometer in the mash and closed lid. Checked temp 8 min in and found it was about 160F so I added cool water and ice & stirred with spoon until I got it down to 150. Closed cooler and let it sit for 30 minutes.
Checked temp and it was down to 147F so I added a little hot water to get it up to 150, closed cooler and waited until full 60 minutes was up.

Temp was still 150F so I added 2.5 gallons of hot water and got the temp up to 165f and let it sit for 15 minutes.
I did a vorlauf of 2 qts and then drained mash into the boil pot. I slowly added vorlauf back into the mash. When empty, i measured what was in my boil pot and saw that I needed another gallon to be at 6.25 gallons in my boil pot.
I added another gallon of 165f water into the mash and let it sit for 10 min then drained into my boil pot.

Followed instruction and boiled for 60 min adding hops as per instructions.

I used wort chiller and got the wort to 80F in about 20 min.
I poured wort from pot to primary fermentation bucket threw a strainer. Then I poured it back and forth again to aerate.
Temp was 79 and I pitched the yeast in primary 9pm.
Am next morning took the OSG reading and got 1.050. It is supposed to be 1.072 No activity from yeast as of yet.

While i had a plan going in with this first brew I soon started running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I looked and saw 2 hours needed, mash and boil but it ended up taking me 4.5 hrs I would guess. Dooh!
Lessen learned.

Thanks again for the help.
 
Iodine test would tell you if mash was complete... my last mash took 90min but I hit 78% efficiency which isn't bad for me and my corona mill and my 5 gallon plastic bucket mash tun.

I stir every 20min or so... just to keep things well mixed... since I've added this step efficiency went up some. Did you stir your mash well in the begining break up all clumps and dough balls? Made that mistake on my first mash... came out lower than I expected. Glad that was a Partial mash... I added extra DME to make up difference.
 
Quick question, are you stirring your grains very well before taking the mash temps, making sure that the grain temp and surrounding water are the same?

When sparging it is best to have your grain bed temps as close to 170 as possible without going over. As for technique, I use fly-sparging so I don't know what recommended for your method.
 
I stirred really good in the beginning but was not sure how much I should stir after the initial stirring. I think i will stir more the next time to even temps out better when adding cold or hot water.
 
The reason I asked that is because I have had temperature pockets in my mashes. After adding cold or hot water, one side would be 165F while the other would be 152F. If you took multiple readings and your grains were at the same temp, then I would only stir it as often as Starrfish suggests.
 
I use an application called BeerSmith. It provides all sorts of helpful information on your all-grain and extract batches for a relatively cheap price. Well worth getting. I plugged your grain amount and it seems 1.070 was around a 75% efficiency. Your efficiency at 1.050 was around 55%. So, yeah. Needless to say it was a little low. It could be your technique or it could be your grains. The best thing to do now would be to check out some of the many forms on the best method for brewing all-grains. Also look into the double batch sparging method.
 
Yes, my efficiency is the problem. Grain should be fine from reputable brew supply.

When I look back I can see a very sloppy brew,

1. Temps were off
2. I did not stir mash enough to even out temps and mix.
3. I should have checked temp every 20 minutes & mixed.
4. I should have checked my sparg temp and gotten as close to 170F as possible without going over. I have no idea where this was.
5. Leave dbl the time to make beer as it calls for time to brew.

6. Don't cook dinner at the same time as brewing.....Dooh

Beersmith is pc only i think.
I have beertools but there is a learning curve.
 
When empty, i measured what was in my boil pot and saw that I needed another gallon to be at 6.25 gallons in my boil pot.
I added another gallon of 165f water into the mash and let it sit for 10 min then drained into my boil pot.

Did you stir the sparge water after you added it?
 
No i didn't. I should have right?

I was afraid up messing up the grain bed but I guess i should have been stirring allot more during the whole process.
 
Stirring during the sparge helps make sure you're releasing most of the sugars. Also with your sparge water you should've been up around 185. I wouldn't worry about the low OG though, live and learn, drink the evidence and nobody will know the difference if you don't mention it. Likely most of your friends who help consume it wouldn't know what they should've expected. ;)
 
To clarify my previous statement: It's as Billy says, you want your grain bed as close to 170 not your sparging water, so your sparging water should be well above the 170 depending on the temp of your grain bed. But if your grain bed is already at 170 (let's say that you did a mashout) then you wouldn't want to be much hotter with your sparge water. Anything above 170 will draw out tannins which cause haze and an astringent taste.
 
Thanks for all the help.
I have a much better understanding of procedure now so hopefully my next batch next week will have a much higher efficiency.
 
No i didn't. I should have right?

I was afraid up messing up the grain bed but I guess i should have been stirring allot more during the whole process.
I don't think you should have been stirring a lot more.
You need to stir to mix the strike water with the grains at dough in, but you already did that.
Once you have doughed in, I don't see any reason for stirring again until you add the sparge water.
Assuming that you are batch sparging, it is essential to stir really well after adding each batch as with a batch sparge, it is the stirring that dissolves the sugars. That is the only point at which an extra stir will help.

-a.
 
Did you drain your runnings before you added the 2.5 gallons of water? I'm not sure what you did, because it looks like you mashed, added 2.5 gallons of water, drained, and then sparged with only 1 gallon of water.
 
Boy, you are getting a lot of help here, hope its not overwhelming.

When I did my first all-grain, I followed the process/advice on Bobby M's webpage. Search for him here on HBT, look at one of his posts and the link is in his signature. Its both good process and simple enough.

At this point, I still pretty much follow that process, with tweaks and changes that work better for me/my process and equipment.

And to reiterate what was said above - don't compare it to what the kit makers intended or a commercial brew. It will be your beer, unique and probably very very good.

Cheers!
 
Did you drain your runnings before you added the 2.5 gallons of water? I'm not sure what you did, because it looks like you mashed, added 2.5 gallons of water, drained, and then sparged with only 1 gallon of water.

No I added the 2.5 gallons waited 15 minutes to raise the temp then drained,

(I didn't take a temp reading so i have no idea what the temp was i just knew i raised it, i now know I want to shoot for 170F here and not go over that)

Measured what I had in my boil pot which was a gallon short, then added a gallon to the mash and drained it after 15min to get my total of 6.25 gallons of wort to boil.

I feel with all the help I have a much better grasp of how to do things much more efficient, next time.
 
No I added the 2.5 gallons waited 15 minutes to raise the temp then drained,

(I didn't take a temp reading so i have no idea what the temp was i just knew i raised it, i now know I want to shoot for 170F here and not go over that)

Measured what I had in my boil pot which was a gallon short, then added a gallon to the mash and drained it after 15min to get my total of 6.25 gallons of wort to boil.

I feel with all the help I have a much better grasp of how to do things much more efficient, next time.

Ah. Ok. Next time, drain your wort first. Measure your runnings, but you should have absorbed about .1 gallon per pound of grain. Use the correct amount of water to get you to 6.25 gallons. So, if you get out 2.5 gallons for example, you'll need 3.75 gallons of sparge water. Add 1/2 of it to your grain, stir like a madman, vorlauf, drain and repeat.

What you did was sort of a no-sparge, but you used 1 gallon of sparge water. I think that could be the reason for very pour efficiency.
 
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