Question on Ventilation for Indoor Electric Brewing

Hey Everybody,

I'm in the early stages of planning and designing a 30 amp, 240v eHERMS system that I'll operate in my basement. I've done a lot of searching about ventilation, but I've been unable to find much that would apply to the specific question I have given my particular environment. I've been making tentative plans for ventilation, but I'm wondering if I really need it given the following:

1. I live in Colorado so it's pretty dry here
2. My basement is one large unfinished space around 2400 sq ft with 10 ft ceilings
3. I expect to boil off about 1.5-2 gallons per batch (5 gallon batch size)
4. I brew about once a month

Assuming I brew with one or more windows open (it's a walkout basement, so the windows are large and there's also a sliding glass door I could open) and run a fan, does anyone think I'll really have any issues without an exhaust hood? Even if I did put in some sort of hood, I'd be leaving a window open anyway for replacement air, especially since I'd be in fairly close proximity to my water heater which has atmospheric venting (my furnace does not).

Anyway, I'm just trying to keep it simple if I can. The specific place I really want to locate my brewing area is not in a very convenient spot to put in any ventilation be it temporary or permanent.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Dan

I brew in my basement and just put the BK under a window with a box fan in it and I can watch the water vapor being pulled out by the fan. I think you should give it a try, if its not effective for you then I'd look for another more expensive solution.

if you plan on brewing away from a window, either move your bk toward the window or get some ventilation. even with dry air and a large space, there is an awful lot of moisture coming off that kettle. you could have issues with swelling/drying of building materials after brewing, especially above the kettle. and those standard box fans don't move as much air as you may think.

i personally wouldn't even consider brewing indoors without a forced ventilation system but that's me. i suppose you could try it without it and see what happens. you can always add ventilation later, even easier with an unfinished space.

I live in Colorado and brew in my basement as well. Only ventilation I use is opening a window to keep the room cool.

I keep my kettle by an opposite wall (15-20 feet away from the window). The kettle sits a foot or so away from the unfinished insulated wall (covered with plastic).

Only brewed a few batches down there but so far no issues. Plus my house smells amazing on brew day!

Funny i live here too appreciate the oasis tip. had the same question as i have tile ceiling you know the softer stuff my plan was same window fan. So ive been stressing about this..and ran into someone who i know would know and he said dont worry bout it....that and what is posted above im thinking hakuna matata....they sell a 6inch vent tube inline fan that i might rig up over the kettle and attached to window or suggested to me a painted box removable

Would this work? Im such a bad artist Seems overkill....maybe just mounted in window w wood no ducting

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Just have one fan blowing out the window and another fan blowing somewhere near where your pot is setup to keep it from immediately condensating on the roof or wall..and you'll be fine.

I live in NV so I get the dry part. I brew in my garage with no ventilation and it makes a very noticeable difference in humidity. In fact it surprised me how much it warms up my garage.

I think your fine but don't be afraid to open a window and use a fan, even a small fan blowing out a window with another window open somewhere can make a huge difference. I usually crack the garage door open about 3 inches and then alternate opening the man door depending on temp and how humid it feels.

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I think what I'll probably do is just monitor it closely once I have the system up and running and do some wet runs with just water and go from there. I'll definitely start off with a couple fans and some partially open windows and see if I can get by with that. If not, I can address it with whatever forced ventilation option seems appropriate.

The end game, once I finish this basement, will be for a dedicated area for brewing with ventilation. So, really I'm just trying to bridge that gap without doing more than I have to on a temporary solution. Hopefully that gap will only be a couple years.

Thanks again.

Dan

My climate is fairly dry, and in the winter is "very dry".
In the summer, I open the full length door, and set up a fan (I have a bug screen over the doorway. In the winter, I set up the fan and blow the moist warm air into my house.

It's ghetto, but I've been doing it for at least 7 years or so. No issues so far.

Yooper said:

My climate is fairly dry, and in the winter is "very dry".
In the summer, I open the full length door, and set up a fan (I have a bug screen over the doorway. In the winter, I set up the fan and blow the moist warm air into my house.

It's ghetto, but I've been doing it for at least 7 years or so. No issues so far.

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That's encouraging. Question: do you have the fan close to the door blowing out, or do you have the fan close to your boil kettle blowing towards the door? I guess it could be both if your boil kettle is near the door, mine will probably be 10-15 ft away from my sliding door.

Thanks!
Dan

Yooper said:

My climate is fairly dry, and in the winter is "very dry".
In the summer, I open the full length door, and set up a fan (I have a bug screen over the doorway. In the winter, I set up the fan and blow the moist warm air into my house.

It's ghetto, but I've been doing it for at least 7 years or so. No issues so far.

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what size batches do you run? i'm in a similar climate. we don't have a whole-house humidifier so it is pretty dry in winter but if it is really cold out, i would imagine condensation problems on the windows. or do you use those window insulation kits?

Yooper said:

My climate is fairly dry, and in the winter is "very dry".
In the summer, I open the full length door, and set up a fan (I have a bug screen over the doorway. In the winter, I set up the fan and blow the moist warm air into my house.

It's ghetto, but I've been doing it for at least 7 years or so. No issues so far.

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Not ghetto at all its cool.. you make a humidifier out of it

itsnotrequired said:

what size batches do you run? i'm in a similar climate. we don't have a whole-house humidifier so it is pretty dry in winter but if it is really cold out, i would imagine condensation problems on the windows. or do you use those window insulation kits?

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I boil off about 2 gallons in a batch, doing 10.5 sized finish batches. It gets REALLY steamy if I don't use a fan- like a steam bath- but with a fan blowing, it just goes through the house. Of course, I do have a big old house- so there is a lot of space to fill and there is some moisture on the windows in the kitchen, but not too bad.

FuzzeWuzze said:

Just have one fan blowing out the window and another fan blowing somewhere near where your pot is setup to keep it from immediately condensating on the roof or wall..and you'll be fine.

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Same here, two fans I already owned. I have found that without a good to capture the steam, all you need is exhausting some room air, and also some air movement in the room to keep a steam cloud from forming a foot below the ceiling. FWIW, I don't buy into the fear of building materials swelling and damage, the spike in humidity is so short it is meaningless IME. I usually continue ventilating for about 30 minutes post boil to clear any remaining humidity.

IME a cheap box fan move a tremendous amount of air, much more than a ducted fan.

If you decide to try without any sort of "real" ventilation, the one suggestion I'll make is that you absolutely need some sort of fan blowing across the ceiling directly above the boil kettle. Otherwise you'll get quite a bit of condensation right in that spot, dripping back down on to you.

Kal

kal said:

If you decide to try without any sort of "real" ventilation, the one suggestion I'll make is that you absolutely need some sort of fan blowing across the ceiling directly above the boil kettle. Otherwise you'll get quite a bit of condensation right in that spot, dripping back down on to you.

Kal

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Is it possible to half cover pot thus avoiding dms and limiting condensation?

Yes, you can half cover, but you're still going to get a lot of steam going straight up. A simple $10 fan blowing across the ceiling is the minimum you'll need to keep air moving to avoid condensation.

I'm not saying that it'll be enough to keep the basement in check (I wouldn't do it myself) but it's the absolutely minimum you should do.

Kal

Yooper said:

but with a fan blowing, it just goes through the house. Of course, I do have a big old house- so there is a lot of space to fill and there is some moisture on the windows in the kitchen, but not too bad.

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Not to mention, making the house smell wonderful!

My plan is this in window. Kal you mean on ground pointed at ceiling not mounted on ceiling right

View attachment 1448505389225.jpg

applescrap said:

Kal you mean on ground pointed at ceiling not mounted on ceiling right

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Correct. Something to keep the air moving above the kettle so that you don't have condensation forming on the ceiling directly above the kettle.

Kal

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448537716.709167.jpg

Kal is correct, you need some air movement in the room. I just point this little 8 or 10" desk fan up at the ceiling, while exhausting out a window behind the kettle, seems to work very well and I already had the fans.

The room air can't be stagnant, or the steam will just gather at the ceiling.

I also live in colorado and started out with a box fan in the window above my boil kettle. It worked well enough but was a pain hanging the fan each brew day. Ended up going the mixing bowl hood route. Picked up a vortex type fan off craigslist which tend to be fairly available for cheap from former indoor plant growing operations. Works well and can reuse the pieces when I actually finish my basement. The moveable elbows allow me to reposition the exhaust out the window.

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In the Northeast where the temperature ranges from 100F and humid in the summer to -5 and dry in the winter, brewing indoors year round is just plain awesome. My brewroom measures 20 feet by 20 feet and has 10 foot high ceilings. A 780 cfm exhaust fan and hood combination, hung directly over the center of the brew kettle, does a very good job of removing boil vapors and brewing aromas.

The calculation used to size my brew room fan were:
20L x 20W x 10H = 4000 cubic feet
4000 cf / 780 cfm = 5.12 minutes

The vapor laden air inside my brewroom is exchanged with fresh air just about once every 5 minutes. Condensation forming on the walls or ceilings is never an issue but the brewing aromas do tend to linger.

Thanks everyone, lots of great tips so far. I think I have enough things working in my favor in my particular environment to at least try a non-forced ventilation solution. If it doesn't work, I have other ideas. I think I'll start out with a fan blowing above the boil kettle to avoid condensation building up directly above, then supplement that with another fan blowing out a partially open window or door.

Dan

I brew in the basement and use Range hood.
I have about a 10ft run to exhaust.
The fan in the hood was a joke.
I added an inline duct fan, still not even close enough.
Then Gtmaus posted this fan
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005XNNYMU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
It works far, far better but still get a little moisture escaping.
Probably need some make up air

sonex said:

I brew in my basement and just put the BK under a window with a box fan in it and I can watch the water vapor being pulled out by the fan. I think you should give it a try, if its not effective for you then I'd look for another more expensive solution.

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Cutting a cardboard box and spray painting it to seal it from the moisture will work very well with a window fan. I made my cheap hood out of foam board almost 3 years ago... I have it mounted over the top of a bedroom window and it works well with a dual 12" fan unit.. Before that the steam resulted in condensation DRIPPING from my ceiling even with the top of my window above wide open.

applescrap said:

My plan is this in window. Kal you mean on ground pointed at ceiling not mounted on ceiling right

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This is what I use... Works great with a homemade hood.

Yup I just have storage shelves in my garage about 6 feet from my brew setup and keep a box fan on the top one blowing across the ceiling towards the garage door I crack open

If anyone's curious, I did write a comprehensive article on ventilation of an indoor electric brewery (including all the testing/research I did before I landed on what worked for me). See my ventilation article here.

Kal

augiedoggy said:

This is what I use... Works great with a homemade hood.

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Yeah I'm with you on that I still can't figure out how it should look can you give me a picture or an idea what kind of paint to

Nice article kal and beautiful set up! I just thought I'd brew some Electric in my laundry room seems like I should have thought it through a little more and considered going all in

Thanks! Good luck going electric!

Kal

Seems to me there are two issues you might worry about.

Humidity and condensation.

Is humidity really a problem? As a matter of course do you worry about how humid it is when you are not brewing? How humid does it get naturally and how does that compare to how high it might get when you are brewing? You can get digital humidity meters $20.00 on Amazon. Monitor humidity and compare that to the levels on a warm, humid summer day.

Condensation could be a potential problem. With condensation, things get wet that should be dry.

I have to think if you have some air circulation from inside to out, the humidity and thus potential condensation will not be an issue. Push your hot steamy air off the kettle outside and bring in fresh dry air and you will have the same humidity level as the ambient weather.

I am going to think any moderate to regular fan will keep ahead of your boil kettle.

I brew 5 gallon batches and a cheap range hood with 7" duct works well enough to control things. I get a bit of condensation along the back of the hood. Going to add a lip made out of 1/2 a PVC pipe to prevent it from dripping back into the kettle.

trussell said:

I brew 5 gallon batches and a cheap range hood with 7" duct works well enough to control things. I get a bit of condensation along the back of the hood. Going to add a lip made out of 1/2 a PVC pipe to prevent it from dripping back into the kettle.

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Would love to see a pic of the "lip" you're making for the condensation. I have a range with 7" duct, too, and had a lot of trouble with condensation on my first brew with it. Granted, my boil off rate was way too high but it was my first time brewing with my new electric system.

The CFM is rated 300 and my element is 5500 watt, so 312 was the goal. I'm considering removing the internal fan and installing an inline fan with a higher rating, but I'm not seeing any units for 7" duct. I'm also thinking about rigging up some sort of drip tray first to see if that takes care of it.

stmicbarr said:

Would love to see a pic of the "lip" you're making for the condensation. I have a range with 7" duct, too, and had a lot of trouble with condensation on my first brew with it. Granted, my boil off rate was way too high but it was my first time brewing with my new electric system.

The CFM is rated 300 and my element is 5500 watt, so 312 was the goal. I'm considering removing the internal fan and installing an inline fan with a higher rating, but I'm not seeing any units for 7" duct. I'm also thinking about rigging up some sort of drip tray first to see if that takes care of it.

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I'm only 3500 watt, I get a vigorous boil once going. My problem seems to be right along the rear of the unit. I have it hung from chains so I keep one end lower and the condensate goes to one side. Once I make the lip I'll post a picture. I am rebuilding things right now. Do love brewing with electric inside. I may replace the fan in my hood with a 6" inline unit down the road when I can get a proper vent hole. Right now I open the basement door and fit a old closet door in the opening with a vent hole for the hood. Only takes a couple of min to install and take down.