Aeration question

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mikeysab

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I've been doing a lot of reading, and have read of the importance of a well aerated wort. Then, in the supermarket today, while picking up spring water, to substitute for my chlorinated city water, something caught my attention. Now remember, I'm a beginner, and a cheater, having only brewed two coopers kits, so don't laugh too hard at my suggestion. I'm wondering if anybody has ever used seltzer water, or part seltzer water to aerate their wort. Actually, now that I think of it, only extract brewing would even apply here, unless there is some way to introduce seltzer water to an all grain wort. Maybe I'm on to something, or maybe I had too many Harpoon IPA's
 
I've been doing a lot of reading, and have read of the importance of a well aerated wort. Then, in the supermarket today, while picking up spring water, to substitute for my chlorinated city water, something caught my attention. Now remember, I'm a beginner, and a cheater, having only brewed two coopers kits, so don't laugh too hard at my suggestion. I'm wondering if anybody has ever used seltzer water, or part seltzer water to aerate their wort. Actually, now that I think of it, only extract brewing would even apply here, unless there is some way to introduce seltzer water to an all grain wort. Maybe I'm on to something, or maybe I had too many Harpoon IPA's

Well, I think seltzer water is carbonated, right? And it's carbonated by co2? I don't think that you'd get o2 out of that.

You can splash/shake your wort and that will be fine. If you strain the wort, you can pour it through a sanitized strainer and that will also aerate the wort. You want to get some oxygen into the wort, to help the yeast grow and reproduce.
 
Ok, so it doesn't apply. While we're on the subject of aeration, would a yeast starter need to be aerated? I'm going to attempt a William's brewing Belgian Quad, and I want to do it right.
 
Let's be clear. You need to OXYGENATE your wort not aerate your wort. Air has only 30% oxygen and 70% nitrogen. So aerating adds nitrogen and who know what else into the wort.
 
Let's be clear. You need to OXYGENATE your wort not aerate your wort. Air has only 30% oxygen and 70% nitrogen. So aerating adds nitrogen and who know what else into the wort.

But........if you aerate long enough, you can get to 8 ppm of oxygen in the wort. It's faster with 100% O2 (seconds, instead of minutes), but regular room air will do the trick, too. The method isn't really all that critical.

I don't have a stir plate, so I shake my starter whenever I walk by it. Also, put sanitized foil on the starter, not an airlock. For a starter, you want yeast reproduction- after all, that's the point.
 
Let's be clear. You need to OXYGENATE your wort not aerate your wort. Air has only 30% oxygen and 70% nitrogen. So aerating adds nitrogen and who know what else into the wort.

very true. but not everyone goes far enough get pure oxygen into their system. many just violently stir, shake or pour the wort to get it aerated, and thus get enough oxygen into the wort.
 
I didn't mean to sound critical of the fish tank pump or the shake the crap out of it methods. I was a shaker untill I had a barley wine get stuck due to lack of O2.
 
I've been thinking about this lately. I've been having to wait quite awhile to get the wort down to pitching temp. So am I better off aerating right after the wort has cooled to say 80 degrees or waiting until the wort is cooled to pitching temp that may be several hours later like the next morning.In other words how long does the wort stay aerated for before pitching?
 
I've been thinking about this lately. I've been having to wait quite awhile to get the wort down to pitching temp. So am I better off aerating right after the wort has cooled to say 80 degrees or waiting until the wort is cooled to pitching temp that may be several hours later like the next morning.In other words how long does the wort stay aerated for before pitching?

I can't really answer your question. I do know that oxygen is considered to be insoluble in water so it is difficult to get much O2 dissolved in water in any way. In the past i have been churning the wort and it has worked fine but i'm soon going to get an oxygen bottle and stone.
 
I currently have an aquarium pump setup I use but kind of wish I would have gone with the bottled oxygen method as it would cut more time off my brew day. In any event my gut feeling says it's probably best to aerate right before you pitch.
 
I would have to agree with you..the longer you wait the less oxygen there will be remaining in solution. I don't know how much you brew, but I got a big plastic tub for cheap from the dollar store or something and fill it with water and bagged ice. I just set my turkey fry'n kettle down in to the ice water and slowly stir. I can get my wort down to 70 in about 20-25 minutes. Also if you end up having to top off with bottled water it helps greatly if you have it refridgerated.
 
If you aerate with AIR, (an aquarium pump), you will hit a max DO (dissolved oxygen level) of 8 mg/L at around 20C. Your wort will STAY at 8 mg/L DO forever, since that is where it is equilibrium with the air that you were pumping through it. You will not lose oxygen if you let it sit for one hour or one year.

IF, however, you aerate with pure oxygen, you will get a max DO of something around 30 mg/L. Since the wort is exposed to air, however, this DO level will drop back down to 8 mg/L, (following first order decay), over a period of time. You still probably have a good couple of hours before it drops down too much, however, (I don't feel like calculating out mass transfer coefficients, etc....it's a lot of guesswork on my part anyway if I did).

IF you aerate with oxygen, and hit your max DO of 30 mg/L, then CAP the carboy, (so there is a blanket of pure O2 sitting on top of the wort), then it will stay at 30 mg/L forever....(as long as you cap it airtight). Realistically, however, you'll have leakage, and once N2 starts leaking back in from the atmosphere, your partial pressure of O2 in the headspace will drop, and O2 will start to diffuse back out of the wort.

Hope that's clear.

Edit: Note that the reason your wort is at less than 8 mg/L DO to begin with is because you boiled it. Oxygen isn't as soluble in hot water, (down to a solubility of 0 mg/L at 100 C), so your hot wort loses all it's oxygen. It's worth noting, however, that if you left cooled wort at room temperature and exposed to air, over a period of time, it would come back to 8 mg/L DO on it's own as it returned to equilibrium with the air around it. Of course this would take a while, and expose your wort to infection from wild crap in the air. The aquarium pump speeds up the process by greatly increasing contact area between air and wort, but it does not force "extra" oxygen into the wort, (you can never go above equilibrium dissolved oxygen concentration in the wort using air under standard atmospheric pressure).
 
Let's be clear. You need to OXYGENATE your wort not aerate your wort. Air has only 30% oxygen and 70% nitrogen. So aerating adds nitrogen and who know what else into the wort.

Just cause I was a science geek - air in the atmosphere is @ 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen, a little bit of argon & carbon dioxide, and some trace amounts of everything from neon, helium, water vapor, and hydrogen making up the balance.

None of those hurt your beer if you aerate, but yeah, it's the oxygen that your yeast need.
 
If you aerate with AIR, (an aquarium pump), you will hit a max DO (dissolved oxygen level) of 8 mg/L at around 20C. Your wort will STAY at 8 mg/L DO forever, since that is where it is equilibrium with the air that you were pumping through it. You will not lose oxygen if you let it sit for one hour or one year.

IF, however, you aerate with pure oxygen, you will get a max DO of something around 30 mg/L. Since the wort is exposed to air, however, this DO level will drop back down to 8 mg/L, (following first order decay), over a period of time. You still probably have a good couple of hours before it drops down too much, however, (I don't feel like calculating out mass transfer coefficients, etc....it's a lot of guesswork on my part anyway if I did).

IF you aerate with oxygen, and hit your max DO of 30 mg/L, then CAP the carboy, (so there is a blanket of pure O2 sitting on top of the wort), then it will stay at 30 mg/L forever....(as long as you cap it airtight). Realistically, however, you'll have leakage, and once N2 starts leaking back in from the atmosphere, your partial pressure of O2 in the headspace will drop, and O2 will start to diffuse back out of the wort.

Hope that's clear.

Edit: Note that the reason your wort is at less than 8 mg/L DO to begin with is because you boiled it. Oxygen isn't as soluble in hot water, (down to a solubility of 0 mg/L at 100 C), so your hot wort loses all it's oxygen. It's worth noting, however, that if you left cooled wort at room temperature and exposed to air, over a period of time, it would come back to 8 mg/L DO on it's own as it returned to equilibrium with the air around it. Of course this would take a while, and expose your wort to infection from wild crap in the air. The aquarium pump speeds up the process by greatly increasing contact area between air and wort, but it does not force "extra" oxygen into the wort, (you can never go above equilibrium dissolved oxygen concentration in the wort using air under standard atmospheric pressure).

I know this is a really old post, but I am doing a lab experiment for school regarding the effects of DO on the fermentation of yeast. I am planning on oxygenating small amounts of DME wort with with pure O2 and a stone prior to fermentation. I have a DO meter to measure oxygen as well.

However, I need to know the rate of DO dissipation from the liquid back into the atmosphere (what you called first order decay?) to determine the amount of DO in the wort over a specific time period. How would I calculate this?
 
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