Aging beer in kegs - with or without yeast?

Typically I naturally carbonate as I'm usually pretty good at keeping my pipeline pretty full so I can afford the extra time. Recently, in order to have that 4th beer on tap for a party we threw, I force carbed a beer. It seems to me, that this beer (what's left) is aging more slowly than other beers I've made. So that got me thinking what is the impact of having the yeast in the keg for the aging process? +1 points if you correctly figured out that this is just a tweak/rewording of the "should I force or naturally carb" question. Do the yeast help the beer "mature" more quickly. Or conversely in a style like an IPA, do they contribute to the loss of aroma over time?

I just got a 20lb tank from a paintball fan buddy of mine, so now I have a complete bear family (papa, mama, baby) of CO2 tanks. Now I really can easily force carb my beers as I have the extra tank. The question is, is there an aging benefit to having the extra yeast in the keg typical of a natural carb. I'm about ready to keg my first lager of the season and I'm debating natural vs force carb. I don't have a preference for doing one procedure over the other in terms of work at kegging time, and I'm not in a rush to get the beers on tap.

This one might have to go in the debate forum; Personally, I think either way is the same (given same time to age). If you have the extra equipment, it might be cool to do a comparison and share your results

I've got two 2.5 gal. kegs. I might just try that.

I've never carbed my kegs naturally but it always seems after a couple of weeks when the keg is getting low, is when my beer tastes the best... Maybe it's the age or maybe it's psychological.

planenut said:

Maybe it's the age or maybe it's psychological.

Click to expand...

I think it's a little of both, planenut. I know that when I start thinking that the keg MUST be getting a little low, I start savoring the brew more, dreading the pull when it makes that gawd awful gurgling noise and runs out.
Beers y'all,
Ken

I'll take the +1 offered. Personally I will accept any extra time to reduce sediment in my keg. My kegs(force carb) normally don't start tasting great until they are half gone anyway. I think aging is just that, time.

Aging + cold conditioning in my experience... Not only do they taste better, but my beer is always INCREDIBLY clear when I get to 1/2 keg or less. It's not that I have sediment, it just is... Hence why my dark cherry stout is being hit more then my nut brown ale right now- Nut brown ale sooo good.... Also leaning towards being kicked anytime now

I have a bit of a strict view on this based on some experimentation I have done. I always bulk big condition beers that need to be aged in the secondary on the yeast cake (kegging from the primary would be similar). Removing the yeast does slow down the conditioning process because you need hungry yeasties to clean up a lot of the components that lead to off flavours in beers (like acetydehyde, higher esters and alcohols, etc.).

An exception to this is big, hoppy beers. Suspended yeast kills hop aroma quickly, especially if you dry hop. I have had best results dry hopping hoppy beers that spent enough time in both the primary and secondary (usually 2 + 2 weeks) to clear on their own before adding hops.

I have also learned that if you force carb a keg, rely only on head pressure. If you do the 'quick carb' method and shake the keg to get CO2 into solution, the CO2 can scrub out many of the flavour volatiles that we want to keep in our beer (like hop aroma and the wonderful spicey phenolics from a Belgian yeast or a German weizen yeast). Many people refute this claim, but my personal experience confirms it. It actually came up as a topic of discussion in my beer club, and a pro brewer and a senior homebrewer judge/PhD were both adamant that it was a substantive concern.

FlyGuy said:

...Suspended yeast kills hop aroma quickly, especially if you dry hop...

Click to expand...

I agree sort of.

I don't know that yeast "kills" hop aroma so much as it prevents it from occurring in the first place. I've read (and have witnessed) that my beers that are clear of yeast in a secondary pick up more fresh hop aroma that those beers that are still rich with suspended yeast.

Essentially...it's the same effect though.

BierMuncher said:

I agree sort of.

I don't know that yeast "kills" hop aroma so much as it prevents it from occurring in the first place. I've read (and have witnessed) that my beers that are clear of yeast in a secondary pick up more fresh hop aroma that those beers that are still rich with suspended yeast.

Essentially...it's the same effect though.

Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. Suspended yeast inhibits hop aroma, not removes it. I wasn't being very precise.

A lot of the hop oils and volatiles responsible for hop aroma actually adhere to the yeast. When the yeast fall out, so do those wonderful compounds, robbing you of hop aroma.

I learned this the hard way trying to skip the secondary on hoppy beers. The length of time the beer sat in the primary made a big difference. It made an even bigger difference when I hopped in the keg and/or used a secondary.

Flyguy and BM, thanks for the comments on hoppy beers. I was susupicious the yeast might negatively affect hop aroma, I'm brewing my house IPA this weekend. I think rather than adding my dry hops directly to the secondary when I transfer, I might week a week after transferring and then add the hops, wait a week and keg and then force carb.

The question still remains, what about for a beer like a German Pilsner with little or no hop aroma to begin with, but a possibly harsh bitterness? (when young) In this case, will the presence of more yeast help to smooth this out quicker? I'm thinking I might go ahead and naturally carb my lagers (2 weeks at 50F) and then take them to lager temps. Then after 3 weeks transfer the beer to a new keg, leaving the sediment behind. Actually I'll probably put a 3-way valve in the jumper hose so I can divert the first bit containing the sediment rather than modifying the dip tube any way.