IPA aging. Contradictory Information?

Hey All

I see some information that says that IPAs are 'best' after months of storage.

Other info says they are best enjoyed young when the flavor, bitterness and aroma havent subsided

I think I am leaning towards 'young' but I am wondering why so many books etc say they are "at there best" after 3,4 or 5 months?

American IPA = Drink Young (not aged to where they loose hop flavor and aroma)

English IPA = Age

I tend to agree. But why do I see in the books I read (most recently Brewing Classic Styles, Radical Brewing) they often say they are best aged for many months.

That is why I am asking.

Brew IPA. Drink some young. Drink some later. Decide what you like better.

I'm sure some prefer theres aged, so its a more rounded mild beer. I prefer the big aromas and flavors of a young IPA.

I prefer to keg age them a bit and then add the dry hops a few days before serving. Best of both worlds IMO>

Guys, thanks for all the answers.

However, none of them answered the question other than mezak.

I totally agree with the responses. To drink it how you like it.

However the question remains:

Why would you brew and Am. IPA with big hop flavor aroma and bitterness. Then age it so it all goes away? I do not understand the logic. Why not just brew a milder IPA and drink it?

American IPAs are supposed to have the bright hop aroma (young) and that fresh hop taste (young) and the bitterness (varying degrees - but not need to age to get your bitterness reduced - just brew it that way to start).

Am I making sense with my question?

I think that most beers are beter a mid age, about 2 month is great because some of young esters mellows and refines. And I think your right about the bitterness, it will reduce slowly but you have to plan it when you target IBU.

jalgayer said:

Guys, thanks for all the answers.

However, none of them answered the question other than mezak.

I totally agree with the responses. To drink it how you like it.

However the question remains:

Why would you brew and Am. IPA with big hop flavor aroma and bitterness. Then age it so it all goes away? I do not understand the logic. Why not just brew a milder IPA and drink it?

American IPAs are supposed to have the bright hop aroma (young) and that fresh hop taste (young) and the bitterness (varying degrees - but not need to age to get your bitterness reduced - just brew it that way to start).

Am I making sense with my question?

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I'm no expert, but while aging will reduce the hop aroma's and hop flavors and bring out the malts more, I also think that the aging process will help develop other flavors and increase the complexity of the beer. Now it may be possible to brew a milder ale and age it, but it might not age the same as it has less hop flavor to begin with, so with age I would expect a milder ale to be far maltier than an aged IPA. The milder ale may taste like an aged IPA, but somehow I doubt that one.

If you are really looking for an answer. Brew up an IPA, bottle it and let it age. While the IPA's aging, brew another beer, following the same recipe, only cut back the hops(use the same hops, just less of them) to the levels of a milder ale. Then crack open a bottle of the age IPA and the young mild and check it out. Without some sort of test like this, all you are going to continue to get is others opinion on the matter. Though maybe someone who has actually tested this could chime in too???

a younger milder beer won't be the same as an aged stronger beer, IMO

jalgayer said:

Why would you brew and Am. IPA with big hop flavor aroma and bitterness. Then age it so it all goes away? I do not understand the logic. Why not just brew a milder IPA and drink it?

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Obi Wan, young Skywalker has promise. If only we could get him to
stop thinking about p---y and concentrate on beer.

Young Skywalker, perceptive you are. Many brewers crappy
dry yeast they use or ferment at improper temperatures or both, therefore
their beer has off flavors many. Only aging makes this go away.
Properly brew your beer you must, then enjoy it young you can!

Soda

jalgayer said:

Why would you brew and Am. IPA with big hop flavor aroma and bitterness. Then age it so it all goes away? I do not understand the logic. Why not just brew a milder IPA and drink it?

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Your question makes a lot of sense, but it makes a slightly misguided assumption. Aging these big IPAs doesn't make all the hop character go away; rather, it just subsides. It takes quite a while for them to really get overwhealmed by the malt.

As an experiment, I once hid a bottle of my Outburst Imperial RyePA in a box of barley wine that I was going to age for many months. The experiment worked, because I totally forgot about it. I tasted it side-by-side with another, much younger bottle of the same recipe. The older beer had been in the bottle for, I think, about ten months, and it was indeed more complex, with more forward maltiness. But it certainly wasn't lacking in bitterness. It was definitely a hoppy IIPA, just not as hoppy as its younger sibbling.

My verdict? I liked the younger one. Still, the older one was damned tasty.

I think this is a little bit of a gray area; that is, when you ask why some information may lead you to believe that an IPA is best after many months of storage. Like others, I think it just boils down to your personal taste.

I tend to consume my beers fairly young. I typically ferment for 2-3 weeks, rack to the keg, carb and serve when they start to run clear... or as clear as they'll get.

I made a Red Ale last August and it never tasted... "quite right", yet everything that I've read about brewing has taught me to be patient and wait. Many months later, I've still got bottles in the fridge and it still sucks; it was never good/drinkable. On the flip side, I brewed a Pale Ale (similar to Ed Wort's) on 6/4, kegged it yesterday (6/21) and its fantastic; it just needs to carb/clear up and I can drink it without worrying if it will be better in a month.

My most recent beers have been great young, again, 2-3 weeks in primary 1 week in the keg (I know its not fully carbed, but it's not flat). That's an Oatmeal Stout, APA, Vienna/Hallertau SMASH, all of which were very much drinkable, and dare I say, fantastic after a ~1 month. The only exception was a Wheat beer that I made with WB-06, and I attribute that abortion to the yeast...

I've only made one true IPA and I was popping bottles as soon as there was just enough carbonation to not be flat, and I really enjoyed that beer...

The closest answer that I have to your question would be that the original IPA's spent months in storage as they traveled from England to India. To stay true to style, some may just suggest that your IPA could only be at its best if it too were stored for many months... I say drink it when you feel that it's ready.

Some good points, guys. Thanks

I went to a talk two week ago given by the head brewer at Harpoon, and a guy from Luganitas. They both said their big IPAs are meant to be drunk young.

The guy from Luganitas told a story of a brew fest he went to and noticed that some of the cases of IPA (Maximus I think) they had to serve were older then he wanted to serve. Before he had a chance to stop him, the helper had served a gentleman the old beer. The man loved it. The man from Lagunitas explained the old vs young, and offered the man the fresh stuff. He said he like the older version better. Just goes to show everyone's tastes are different.

Here's something else I haven't seen mentioned.

I've read that there's two basic bittering compounds in a beer: isomerized alpha acids and oxidized beta acids. They both bitter beers, but they give a different character of bitter taste. The isoalpha bitter is much sharper, harsher. The oxidized beta bitter is softer, more well rounded, but no less bitter. Obviously, isomerized alpha acids are created by the boil. Oxidized beta acids are primarily created by aging. Isomerized alpha acids diminish over time, where oxidized beta acids increase over time.

Various hops contain various amounts of alpha acids and beta acids. So, if you used hops that are high in alpha acids and incredibly low in beta acids, you'd want to drink the beer young. If you used hops that are low in alpha acids but high in beta acids you'd want to drink the beer after it has aged for awhile. Amounts beings rather equal, if you prefer the alpha acid bitterness to beta acid bitterness, you'd want to drink the beer young. If you prefer the beta acid bitterness to the alpha acid bitterness, you'd want to drink the beer after it has aged.

The answer to your questions is because you can. It for the guy who designs beers for himself open to all kinds of possibilities. I prefer the bit of oak aging(french, American, etc) to the bitterness of fresh ipa's. get sleepyemt's recipe for hop slam and now you add honey to the mix. My house ipa is 9.2% with 70 IBU made from 7 oz of kent goldings
as an experiment with honey I added it to my house IPA. I now have a new house IPA.
Why because I can. So follow some other advice and age your favorite HB Ipa and if you like the change but it is not bitter enough Add more hops or drink it young it is YOUR Choice which is why we all spent the time. Note I could care less about competition's but again that's my choice and there's no club in Toledo.,

mojotele said:

Various hops contain various amounts of alpha acids and beta acids. So, if you used hops that are high in alpha acids and incredibly low in beta acids, you'd want to drink the beer young. If you used hops that are low in alpha acids but high in beta acids you'd want to drink the beer after it has aged for awhile. Amounts beings rather equal, if you prefer the alpha acid bitterness to beta acid bitterness, you'd want to drink the beer young. If you prefer the beta acid bitterness to the alpha acid bitterness, you'd want to drink the beer after it has aged.

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Yeah, but there is more to hops than just those two substances.
There are hundreds of others that contribute flavor and aroma,
and at the acidic pH of beer they hydrolyze and lose their flavor.
So if you want those fresh flavors, you have to drink the beer
young. The solution to excess bitterness is to use less of the
bittering hops in your recipe. In fact, most of these newer
recipes I've seen have too much of everything in them. Of
course if you put two pounds of roasted barley in your batch,
you'll have to age it a year to smooth it out! Just use less
of everything.
Ray

American IPA=1 month,, 2 weeks primary 2 weeks in the keg and drink
I use gelatin so its clear when going ion the keg,, even the 2nd 0r 3rd keg doesn't taste much different after a couple of more weeks.

we go threw about a corny a week at my house

You'd brew a hoppy beer and then age it because hop flavors turn from grassy, piney, citrus to delicious resiny notes that I've heard described as "marmalade." It's really just all about what you like.

When I started brewing I made a gallon of extract beer that had like 4 oz crystal hops in it (hey! I was experimenting). It was so grassy that it was like chewing on a big wad of grass clippings. A couple months later the grassy flavor was gone and it turned into a delicious, rich resiny flavor and mouthfeel.

Sometimes you just want those aged hop flavors, hop flavors don't go away with aging, they just change. So much that I think some people don't recognize them as hops anymore

Here's a thought.
Why not age the beer however long you feel is necessary, let's say two months or so, THEN dry hop as normal and keg or bottle. It seems to me that hop aroma and flavor dissipate with age much more quickly than bitterness anyway. So this way you could still get great aroma and flavor from the dry hopping and keep most of your bitterness, but still get a nice aged and conditioned beer.

What does everyone think about this?

Brew your IPA
Age moderately (this is TOTALLY a matter of taste and includes many factors including, malts used and OG , ABV etc)
Near the end of aging - dry hop for the best "young hop" flavor.

IMHO it's better fresh when the hop flavor is at it's peak. I drink my IPA's a soon as I can get them on tap and carbonated. I find that if you let them age, you loose a lot of that bright hop flavor. For me the hop flavor is what makes an IPA so dang tasty.


Nothing you get in the stores is as fresh as an IPA you can make at home. Having fresh IPA at home has changed my whole perception of what is a great IPA.

I've got some 3 year old IPA Brut that lasted about 8 months before it became a waste of space due to lack of flavor/aroma. A 90 IBU 9.3% ABV Bitter is tough to drink.

Beers that improve with age generally do so not because they're badly made in the first place but because they're the sort of beers that respond well to ageing. Not all beers taste great when they're fresh: generally the stronger, the more they need ageing, to allow harsher flavours to round down.

I just made an IPA and it sat in the fermentor for a month and then used table sugar to bottle with. For some reason all my beers carb up in a week, with too much head in my opinion. It smelled awesome and tasted good, but it will refine in about a month and I think it will be great.

IPA's normally have higher alcohol content, thus aging helps flavor profile!!!

I follow a 1,2,3,4 approach so far without fail. For all beers in the 4.5 - 7% abv.

1 week Primary
2 weeks secondary
3 weeks tertiary
4 weeks before sharing

I like someone else who posted dry hop ipa/apa in the keg so that all the hoppy goodness gets jammed into the beer at 12 psi for a week. By doing that I have gotten to taste them over the coarse of 7-10 days before bottling, and feel that all the flavors blend & balance after atleast a month aged.

a week is 7-10 days

I've done some testing on the age vs. freshness issue.

I have an American IPA "Asgard Ale", and my double IPA "Thor's Hop Hammer".

I see that you have a Pliny Clone going so that's a lot of help on the seeing where you're coming from, assuming you've had real and fresh pliny. Nationally speaking, I think both judges and folks on this forum aren't on the same page about big hop head IPAs. Pliny, "the West Coast" style, clean big , bright hops and low malt, doesn't ship to the east coast specifically because it doesn't age well, and as you'll see on the notes on the keg it says to not age the beer and drink it fresh. So, depending on what type of "big hop flavor" you mean, the answer you're looking for will vary. As a note about my palate, I think dogfish and pliny are completely different types of hoppy beers, though they are often compared. I'm a Pliny fan so read this accordingly...

I was at first able to make a good, dry hopped, 8.1% double IPA with bright, floral aromas and big hop flavor, but flavors and aromas peaked at about 4 weeks. I've even timed my brew and dry hop dates so that judges in competition would drink it at peak flavors. At 6 weeks it started to noticeably loose hop characteristics. After getting pretty happy with my recipe of my double IPA, my next my goal was to create a big hop beer with a longer shelf life.

IMO it's the dry hop that really drops out, and some of the flavor hops drop when you age it. My dry hopped Thor's Hammer which is mash hopped, has 2.5 oz 1min hops, and 6oz of dry hop is best at 4 weeks. For my next beer, one with more shelf life, my idea was to not bother with dry hopping (which can get to be a pain), and instead try just dumping the massive hops into the 1 minute. It's worked for me. It's a different kind of beer but it does have a long shelf life and it's good.

My A IPA is best, rather, only good after it ages about 2 months. It has 4 oz Centennial 10AA of 1min hops. It's pretty bad tasting when it's young. After it mellows it's a good hop oriented beer, but more balanced with the malts, unlike the hop-centric double IPA. It's not a bright, citrusy hoppy beer, but a good A IPA. More of a subtle Racer 5 / Lagunitas.

And to second the sentiment, taste is subjective! Asgard Ale bottle conditioned at 4 or 5 months old, took 1st in A IPAs, and 3rd in IPAs overall at the World Cup of Beer 2010. My Thor's Hop Hammer actually scored higher, but the competition was tougher in the double IPA category and it didn't place. Judges' notes really show how palates differ. Some national judges just didn't like the big hop flavor, while locals loved it. One scored it as a 41. Another said it was too hoppy and not balanced. For me the "off balance" of the big hops and low malts is exactly what I'm going for in a Pliny type double IPA.

Cheer's to having fun brewing gallons and gallons of beer, finding the recipe that you like.

SKOL!

p.s. SAYNOMORE, I haven't tried it yet, but I've had the same thought about aging beer first and dry hopping later. Let me know if you try it.

saynomore10 said:

Here's a thought.
Why not age the beer however long you feel is necessary, let's say two months or so, THEN dry hop as normal and keg or bottle. It seems to me that hop aroma and flavor dissipate with age much more quickly than bitterness anyway. So this way you could still get great aroma and flavor from the dry hopping and keep most of your bitterness, but still get a nice aged and conditioned beer.

What does everyone think about this?

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saynomore10 said:

Here's a thought.
Why not age the beer however long you feel is necessary, let's say two months or so, THEN dry hop as normal and keg or bottle. It seems to me that hop aroma and flavor dissipate with age much more quickly than bitterness anyway. So this way you could still get great aroma and flavor from the dry hopping and keep most of your bitterness, but still get a nice aged and conditioned beer.

What does everyone think about this?

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I often thought of this. Hell, how cool would it be to bottle an IPA with one hop blossom sitting at the bottom of the bottle? I may reserve one clear bottle to add this touch one day, just for kicks when giving a bottle to a friend as a gift...

I think the answer you are looking for is tradition. Traditional IPAs were transported by ship from England to India and that travel time took weeks. The addition of a lot of hops was in part to help with preventing the beer from spoiling during the trip. The book you cite is giving you the traditional aging process for an IPA.

I'll add my 2cents...

IMO IPA's are better fresh as a standard rule. The less malty, fresher hopped IPA's (Lagunitas IPA, Torpedo, DFH 60min) are definitely better fresh because the majority of the flavor and character comes from their use of hops late in the boil and dry hopping. These beers are really well balanced and delicious, and I would not age one for 6months hoping to improve it because I think it would just kill the hop goodness and muddle the flavor.

An imperial IPA (or maltier IPA-DFH 90min, The maharaja, lots of others - DFH 120min is in a whole other category...barleywiipa) can go either way. The Maharaja (IMO one of the best IIPA's out there) is absolutely delicious fresh. I had a couple of bottles right at release and they were just bursting with fresh hop flavor and aroma...amazingly good. I had a couple more bottles at the end of may/early june (a few months after release) and it was still an amazing beer, still well balanced, but the malt was more pronounced giving a sweeter overall mouthfeel, etc... I still thought it was an amazing IIPA, just different. I think its about what style you prefer, and just what you are in the mood for. Sometimes a fresh, hoppy, aromatic IPA hits the spot, while at other times a good IPA with some more malty balance is just what I need.

Just some thoughts I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, its all in the ingredients, and the balance and time-frame of the particular beer

There are a growing number of voices in the craft beer community who feel the relentless race towards the top of the gravity and bitterness scale among commercial and home brewers is not a good trend. (Witness the patter of a 400 Lb Monkey brewer: http://beernews.org/2010/02/left-hand-400-pound-monkey-a-game-changing-ipa) Giving negative reviews for young beers toting three digit IBU's would be one way to act as a counterbalance.

I enjoy many of the commercial beers made with with massive amounts of fresh hops and clearly they are best when young and cheers to anyone who brew using fresh hops at home. Hell, invite me over!

But frozen hop pellets ain't the same thing as fresh hops and while I can tolerate a beer with a grassy finish, I don't prefer them; And I'm sure most people think it tastes nasty, even though they might not be able to admit that to their homebrewing buddy. So, I favor aging a big hop beer, especially before sharing it with friends and family.

dude! Most of those great commercial IPA's that you love to drink are also made with pellets. Some are even made with hop extracts. Truth is that there is nothing wrong with pellets. Pellets are more stable and stay fresher longer then whole hops. I trust the flavor from pellet hops much more then what you get from whole hops.

Whole hops may absorb your beer as well when you dry hop ...is this true?

maida7 said:

dude! Most of those great commercial IPA's that you love to drink are also made with pellets. Some are even made with hop extracts. Truth is that there is nothing wrong with pellets. Pellets are more stable and stay fresher longer then whole hops. I trust the flavor from pellet hops much more then what you get from whole hops.

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I believe you have misconstrued my argument.

There is a big flavor difference between whole/pellet hops that are frozen then stored for weeks or months before being used and FRESH hops added to the boil within 24 hours of being picked. Is there not?

In responding to the author of this topic, who is trying to sort out conflicting opinions regarding the aging of highly hopped beers, I contend that while even in a massively FRESH hopped young beer can have a very accessible hop flavor, most people do not find young beers which have been highly hopped using conventional methods very appealing.

shamrockdoc said:

Whole hops may absorb your beer as well when you dry hop ...is this true?

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yes they suck it up like a sponge. If your using large amounts you should make a bigger batch to account for the lost liquid.

MuddyMo said:

I believe you have misconstrued my argument.

There is a big flavor difference between whole/pellet hops that are frozen then stored for weeks or months before being used and FRESH hops added to the boil within 24 hours of being picked. Is there not?

In responding to the author of this topic, who is trying to sort out conflicting opinions regarding the aging of highly hopped beers, I contend that while even in a massively FRESH hopped young beer can have a very accessible hop flavor, most people do not find young beers which have been highly hopped using conventional methods very appealing.

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Yeah and I'm still not sure what you mean.

I love young beers that have been highly hopped with conventional methods. If you age these beers you will loose a good deal on the hop flavor.

Fresh hops straight off the vine do not have the same effect as those that were properly dried. These fresh picked hops are also called "wet" hops. You'd need to use several times the amount of wet hops to get the level of bitterness. Some of the wet hop beers use several pounds of hops. All that hop matter makes a grassy vegetable flavor. That's my limited experience. I'm not sure what age would do to a "wet" hop beer.

Wet hops are simply that - wet, not dried. Wet hops can range from 60-80% water content vs maybe 10-20% for dry, so you have to use more (by weight) to get the same bitterness. Now if one wanted to take the time and measure it it by the hop cone, the number for wet vs dry to get the same bitterness would be the same.

Both whole and pellet hops will absorb a bunch of beer. Whole might "absorb" a bit more, but probably in reality it is the same as pellets, BUT because of the size of the whole hops, you get some beer simply trapped among the cones when transferring. The best would be to use wet hops, as they will absorb less wort since they are already wet - if you care about it.

We had a big outdoor party this weekend and I brought a few folks down to my bar to sample the extra beers I had on tap down there. This included an IPA I had brewed to be at it's peak (in my opinion) around the 1st of May. I think it is still OK, but has lost some of it's character. Well several of the folks where self-admittedly not fans of hoppy beers (I'm not talking BMC drinkers here either). These people all loved the IPA, while the regular IPA drinker, were, yeah, it's OK.

If you want the best of both worlds, then I think you've gotta age the beer for a few months (or age it warmer for a shorter time, like breweries do), then add more hops. A bigger beer like an IPA is not going to be ready in 4 weeks....sorry . You're talking about a beer with 1.060 OG or higher...it's gonna need some time to clean up. There's nothing wrong with dropping a hop ball in later once you're "in zone".

How do I do it? My process is to bulk age longer, like 4-6weeks...I may even dry hop in primary...then as you rack to the keg you add a hop ball. After having it sit for another 2weeks, you're looking at a beer that's aged 2 months or so. Crash cool it and carb it for another week, and you're getting really close to a drinkable age. Technically, this is still pretty young, but definitely not as short as 4 weeks. Keeping it at room temp longer really helps the process. I used to put it in the keezer after 2 weeks, and it took a lot longer to get drinkable.

ScubaSteve said:

A bigger beer like an IPA is not going to be ready in 4 weeks....sorry .

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I disagree. I just made a double IPA and it tasted great 2 weeks out of the fermenter. SG was 1.075 FG was 1.012 ABV was over 8% No hot alcohol flavors.

If you pitch the right amount of healthy yeast and have great control of the fermentation temps you won't need to age the beer. That's been my experience.