Keg Foaming, 5k feet altitude gain...

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WenValley

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I live at about 800 elevation. I took a keg of properly carbed Centennial Blonde from the keezer to a mountain lodge for a work party.

It was foam city. Couldn't get the keg to dispense anything but thick, creamy foam. Finally decanted into a large teapot and waited for the foam to dissipate, then served the beer from the teapot.

I've been pondering this problem as I have to take another keg to the same location for another work party this weekend.

It dawned on my today that going from 800 feet, to 5500 feet probably has something to do with the foam problem.

But I'm stumped about how to fix this. :confused:

Any suggestions on a fix?

Thanks.
 
i'm guessing a lot has to do with it getting shaken during transport.
in which case you can release some pressure ever couple days without putting it on gas. The greater amount of air space, the less times you'll have to do it.

think of it this way...
you release the CO2 pressuring the beer. The CO2 in the beer takes a while do create a balance with the now lower pressure volume of space above it.
when it balances out, you'll have less CO2 in the beer.

I doubt it's an elevation issue otherwise bottles would foam like heck as well and brewers would issue special high altitude batches.

I've brought some from 5280 to 9600 quite often. never a keg yet...
 
I'm sure you're on the right track. The road to the lodge is mostly dirt. It's VERY rough. Like putting the keg on a paint shaker. The keg will only have about four hours to stabilize before being tapped.

The last keg that I took up was just a little over half full, this keg is almost full to the top. I hope it makes a difference.

Your point about commercial beers not over foaming was something that I thought about too.

Thanks.
 
The atmospheric pressure difference due to the elevation gain isn't enough to significantly affect the balance of the system.

It could also be that the length of your serving line it too short, the beer was warmer than when it was carbonated or you were serving at too high of a pressure.
 
When you say you tried everything, does that include using a serving pressure of about 3-5psi? I transport 2 3gal kegs all the time, and serve almost immediately. The lines are ketp cold and I server at 3 psi.
 
Silly question... But is it possible the lines were reversed? You'll get nothing but a monster foam ball that way..
 
I think the key here is to get the beer extremely cold when you arrive and let the beer settle down before serving. Also, make yourself an extra long serving line. I think the ambient pressure drop for 5000 higher elevation is close to 1.5 psi so it should theoretically affect the line balance.
 
The picnic tap was stored in the cooler with the keg. It's the same 3/16"x6' tap that I use at home. The keg was kept iced in a Coleman Extreme cooler but I just used the extra ice from the ice maker. My keezer's Ranco control is set at 38 degrees.

I didn't adjust the keg pressure from the keezer to the lodge, until it went total foam, then I started dumping pressure. That didn't work.

It was about freezing out, and was spitting snow so I didn't get a big temperature bump.

The kegs are pinlock, so no chance to get the lines reversed. I'm going to really ice down the next keg to see if I can get the temps down a little more. Also this next keg is almost full.

It's a sad thing when you roll out your homebrew and the quality goes into the crapper due to foam.

I've transported and served kegs before, and not had problems, but this road to the lodge is something from the Himalaya Mountains.

I'm going to try and give the keg a couple of more hours to settle down and play nice.

Thanks!
 
You definitely have an altitude issue. When I get growlers from brew pubs on the front range and bring them home I have to have them put plastic wrap over the opening....NO CAP. Your volume will rise. I can watch the liquid rise in the bottle as I drive.

If you put less volume of beer in the keg and keep the seal off of it, It should be fine. Add a co2 tank when you get there.

I am not sure of the physics involved but 850 to 5500 is huge. I buy beer at 5000 in denver and drive to 8150 in Vail;the plastic wrap route helps. I put the cap on when I get home.
 
I don't think its an altitude issue. In August, I brought 8 kegs from the CO front range to Winter Park, ~5000 to 8000 ft., and had no problem...but this was after getting them to proper serving temps, and after venting several times, and after lowering the serving pressure to 2 - 3 psi. Before this, they foamed like mad. Once dialed, they flowed perfectly. Several liquor store clerks, barkeeps, etc. have agreed that the altitude problem is largely a myth, for what its worth.
 
I don't think its an altitude issue. In August, I brought 8 kegs from the CO front range to Winter Park, ~5000 to 8000 ft., and had no problem...but this was after getting them to proper serving temps, and after venting several times, and after lowering the serving pressure to 2 - 3 psi. Before this, they foamed like mad. Once dialed, they flowed perfectly. Several liquor store clerks, barkeeps, etc. have agreed that the altitude problem is largely a myth, for what its worth.

Right. Like I said an altitude issue. You need to plan accordingly. Do the steps moti_mo used and you should be fine.

Altitude is not a myth. Why do you think baking instructions have a high altitude plan B. Altitude screw with everything. Take a bottle of beer from the front range to winter park and watch the levels. Take a bag of chips from the front range to vail and watch the pressure difference. If you plan right you should be able to deal with the pressure difference between the two locations.
 
This intruiges me...

When we are flying at 38,000 feet and the girls are opening bottles of beer for passengers, there is no foaming issue.

The ambient pressure will decrease .5 PSI per thousand feet, right? So you are in a sense gaining 2PSI with a 4,000' change. I dont know that 2PSI will result in copious foaming from a keg, I wouldnt think it would.
 
The cabin of an airplane is pressurized. That is why in the old days when You could take liquids on a plane you could never put a bottle of wine in the belly. Always take it with you in the pressurized cabin. My cousin made the mistake of putting bottles of wine in his checked luggage. What a mess that was.


As for the 2psi change of 4000 feet. I am not sure the physics involved. Pressure is a finicky beast. It will give you an issue if not dealt with.
 
The cabin of an airplane is pressurized. That is why in the old days when You could take liquids on a plane you could never put a bottle of wine in the belly. Always take it with you in the pressurized cabin. My cousin made the mistake of putting bottles of wine in his checked luggage. What a mess that was.


As for the 2psi change of 4000 feet. I am not sure the physics involved. Pressure is a finicky beast. It will give you an issue if not dealt with.

Ha... I am well aware of this, but that will not change anything at all. I am an airline CA... so I have a little knowlege of pressurization.

You can still take bottles of wine and other spirits on the plane in carry on luggage. Checked too if you like.

I mean if I carb a keg to 13PSI instead of say 11PSI... I wouldnt get copious foam at home. Now if I shake the heck out of it in transit, I will. Pressure is an interesting thing
 
It's not about how much carbonation is in the beer. It's about line balancing. You usually shoot to have 1psi of beer pressure left at the faucet after the line resistance and head pressure. If your ambient drops by 1.5-2psi by going up 5000 feet, that new serving pressure is 2.5.
 
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