Wattage requirements

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A friend introduced me to brewing and I've been doing some research and looking at building what I need. The usual back and forth in terms of what I want. But.....

Will a 1500 watt 120 volt hot water element be adequate for for a 3.5 gallon boil? I am going back on forth with starting 'standard' with 5 gallon batches and maybe going smaller with 3 gallon batches to keep the process more manageable and may try more recipes that way.

I'm assuming 5000 watts would do a 6.5 boil OK?
 
3700 watts will boil 7 gallons

1500W would be close, if you had some decent insulation.
 
If you can manage it, a 2000w element is likely a start for smallish boils, you will need a 20 amp circuit. Problem with being watt challenged is that it will take near forever to boil, and then be a weak boil at best. Of course, a big 240v, 5500w element on a controller is preferred, but a simple 2000w element will do some work. 2 elements at 2000w each is even better. 1500w will be slow and require an insulated kettle w/ marginal results.

I also have an electric turkey fryer that is only 1650 watts. It will boil 6 gallons but it takes a looong time and needs to be partially covered to maintain a boil. I guess what I'm saying is that being on the low end of wattage is not fun and adds time to your session.

To your question, 5000w will boil 10 gallons.
 
There is a guy here that swears he boils 5 gallon batches with 2,000W so... apparently it can be done.
 
Like I say, I'm still in the planning stage. My buddy left me with 6 gallons sitting in my basement fermenting. He knows I'm a junkie for all kinds of DIY projects. Damned him anyhow..... I met him because we both build telescopes..... I'm really resisting the urge to have another LARGE project going..... That is why I was thinking of 3 gallon batch sizes. Easier to do, but you have to do them more often. A lot will come down to what I can scrounge and put together. I'm the kind of guy that prefers to build as much as I can before I let the moths out of the wallet. :D
 
There is a guy here with a killer 3 gallon indoor no sparge electric brew rig! You need to hook up with him.
 
There is a guy here that swears he boils 5 gallon batches with 2,000W so... apparently it can be done.

I haven't seen any 2K elements but that is barely outside the range of the
RANCO ETC-111000. If I go with 2 1.5K I could use both to get up to boil and see if one would maintain IF I went the 3 gallon route. Do you know of any comparable controllers that handle more current? This one claims a differential of 1 degree so I thought I could also use it to maintain mash temps.
 
yah the Ranco or A419s are only good to 1500W.

For 2000 and up youd probably need a PID and SSR combo.
 
There is a guy here that swears he boils 5 gallon batches with 2,000W so... apparently it can be done.

Probably can be.... but according to my math 7gal(pre-boil) would take about 40mins to bring to a boil with 2kW and 95% eff. No thanks.
To match my propane burner you need about 5.5kW... which is one of the very few reasons I have not gone electric yet. The biggest one being the place I'm renting now has no 240 hook-up available and well I'm renting so no mods.
 
This spreadsheet should answer most all your wattage sufficiency questions.

http://anthonyrants.com/ElectricHeat.xls

Except that it will not tell you when a certain wattage is too low to even reach a boil. According to the spreadsheet, if you have 500W you can boil 7 gallons in 4 hours. Which we all know is impossible.

It will give you accurate times to a degree, but it will not tell you when your wattage is too low to even reach a boil, it will still give you a time to heat, which is incorrect.
 
It does help some. I probably would gain some control using a 240 volt 5500 watt element and switching it to 120 volt after the boil is reached to try and gain some control of the boil. Hmmm.... Use an SRC to introduce a duty cycle?
 
I dont know how youd switch a 5500W element from 240VAC to 120VAC mid process.

Most guys are using PIDs and SSRs to do the controlling. It does allow for quick boil times and then the ability calm it down for a specified boil off rate.
 
OK. Thanks. I just did a search and see what you are talking about. The 'easy' I was hoping to do with 3 gallon batches is quickly disappearing though. This is exactly the reason I'm doing the research though.
 
I currently use a 2000w heatstick along with a banjo burner. I use both to get the boil going, then cut the burner. The stick holds the boil pretty good. This is for up to 10 gallons in my keggle.

Saturday, I had 10 gallons started, when I ran out of propane. The "boil" was to the point were the foam was solid on top.

I left it running on the stick and went to get more propane. This took a while, about 45 minutes.

When I got back, the boil was going very nicely, I had the pretty hot break circle and everything.

2000watts will boil 10 gallons. It just takes a while to get there.

I'm working on my second 2000w stick now. It will be connected to a seperate 20A circuit. That will just about eliminate my need for the banjo.

It will also allow me to stop using the kitchen stove for heating mash and sparge water. I will be picking up a second 10 gallon water cooler to make into an electric HLT.

:rockin:
 
I currently use a 2000w heatstick along with a banjo burner. I use both to get the boil going, then cut the burner. The stick holds the boil pretty good. This is for up to 10 gallons in my keggle.

Saturday, I had 10 gallons started, when I ran out of propane. The "boil" was to the point were the foam was solid on top.

I left it running on the stick and went to get more propane. This took a while, about 45 minutes.

When I got back, the boil was going very nicely, I had the pretty hot break circle and everything.

2000watts will boil 10 gallons. It just takes a while to get there.

I'm working on my second 2000w stick now. It will be connected to a seperate 20A circuit. That will just about eliminate my need for the banjo.

It will also allow me to stop using the kitchen stove for heating mash and sparge water. I will be picking up a second 10 gallon water cooler to make into an electric HLT.

:rockin:

If 2K holds 10 gallons at boil I may have to rethink yet again. :D
 
I dont know how youd switch a 5500W element from 240VAC to 120VAC mid process.

Most guys are using PIDs and SSRs to do the controlling. It does allow for quick boil times and then the ability calm it down for a specified boil off rate.

Simple, install a switch to cut one of the hots. Instant 1/4 power.... 1375W
 
Simple, install a switch to cut one of the hots. Instant 1/4 power.... 1375W

You woud have to switch one leg to neutral, cutting one hot would leave the element unpowered completely.
1375W is pretty weak though for boiling.
 
I'm just looking into heating elements from a UK company called Heatrod.

They recommend their 316 grade stainless element and say the recomended power per square inch of element for wort products is 30-40 w per sq inch, which seems much less than you guys seem to be running at.

3kW elements suit the UK power grid, so a 3kW element at 8mm dia needs to be 2.4 meteres long, or just under 8 ft! I was hoping for half that sort of length....:eek:

They do have straight elements that would go nicely in a long thin tube for rims heaters, as long as I want a rims heater 4ft long that is!
 
You woud have to switch one leg to neutral, cutting one hot would leave the element unpowered completely.
1375W is pretty weak though for boiling.

I'm sorry, yes you would have to do that... still not that hard, but I have no idea if that would maintain a boil.
 
PID then, nuff said

My EE buddy must have just looked at the temp probe and made an assumption and told me this wouldn't work for boil control. I see on page 9 of the manual it does list cycle time. My head is hurting. Time to stop reading for today....
 
My EE buddy must have just looked at the temp probe and made an assumption and told me this wouldn't work for boil control. I see on page 9 of the manual it does list cycle time. My head is hurting. Time to stop reading for today....

PIDs are excellent for boil control... Your EE buddy is insane :D

Use manual mode, set a 1 second cycle, and control cycle time. Perfect control.
 
Just thought I would add my $0.02. I use a boiler with 2 1500W/120V elements (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/another-electric-hlt-pics-146564/#post1673064) and find that this is plenty to get a good boil for 5 gallon batches (28 L / 7.4 USgallon pre boil). I would think that you should be able to boil a 3 gallon batch with one 1500W element, depending on how well your kettle is insulated (see the post linked above for an example heat loss calc). If you go 5 gallons, then you will definitely need a well insulated kettle to minimize heat loss and even then you will not get a very high boiloff with a single 1500 W element. In the above mentioned thread, I calculate the heat loss of my kettle to be 0.8 kW, which is roughly half of the total 1500 W you would be putting into your kettle and hence not much heat left for boiling off water. I Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Greg
 
How hard would it be to use one PID to control both the HLT and the boil?

Could it be switched back and forth easily, or is it not worth the effort?
 
HLT would not need a PID. You get get away with strictly running a 120V 1500W element turned on and off with a Ranco or something. They will handle the current up to a 1500W Element. PID is not needed. I'm sure you could use it but just letting you know it's not needed.
 

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