General -Dead space, mashing, sparging questions?

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SantaClaus

SantaClaus

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Hey all I have a couple questions regarding strike water and mashing volumes. I think I'm on the right path here, but missed my OG yesterday and am hoping the wise-folks here can help me out.

So here's the deal, I'm using a sanke keg with a PICO style false bottom for my MLT - http://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-PICO-style-keg-kettle-false-bottom_p_1010.html

With this I have 3gallons of space under the false bottom. I do, however, have a dip tube under the false bottom that sucks up all but a quart of water. To equate for this empty space I add 3 additional gallons of stike water to my mash, to bring the water level up to the false bottom.

For example if I'm mashing 15lbs of grain w/ 1.5quarts per lb
(15 x 1.5 = 22.5quarts or 5.6 gallons) I'll add a total of 8.6 gallons of strike water; 3 to fill the dead space and 5.6 to mash the grain.

At the conclusion of my mash, I'll fire up the burner (modest flame) and slowly recirculate from the bottom to the top of the grain bed until the mash bed has reached 168 - takes about 15mins.

From there I'll begin transferring wort into the brew kettle, while slowly fly-sparging the grain w/ 175degree water. I'll build up about 1.5 -2" of water on top of my grain bed, while draining wort off at the same rate water is being added. This takes about 45min - 1 hr to achieve the 6.5-7.0 gallons of wort for my boil.

Yesterday I brewed a Belgian dubbel which BeerSmith calculated having a 1.070 pre-boil gravity w/ 1.090 final. I was a bit shy of that 1.052 per-boil, 1.072 post.

Anyone have any ideas?

- is it that extra 3 gallons of water? - should I do away with that?

Could I batch sparge with this dead space, and if so how?

Thanks in advance for the help
 
SantaClaus said:
With this I have 3gallons of space under the false bottom. I do, however, have a dip tube under the false bottom that sucks up all but a quart of water. To equate for this empty space I add 3 additional gallons of stike water to my mash, to bring the water level up to the false bottom.

For example if I'm mashing 15lbs of grain w/ 1.5quarts per lb
(15 x 1.5 = 22.5quarts or 5.6 gallons) I'll add a total of 8.6 gallons of strike water; 3 to fill the dead space and 5.6 to mash the grain.


- is it that extra 3 gallons of water? - should I do away with that?

Could I batch sparge with this dead space, and if so how?

Thanks in advance for the help
Click to expand...

Yes, if you're mashing in with 1.5 quarts PLUS 3 gallons, that's a very thin mash. Have you been able to take any pH readings?

You could batch sparge, but I'm not sure how to recirculate the mash well enough to make sure the grain was in contact with the water underneath the false bottom. Well, even with fly sparging I think that would be the case.

I never heard of any body who had 3 gallons of deadspace before. That's a LOT! Have you considered a HERMS, which would recirculate the mash and then make the the deadspace less of a factor?
 
Yooper said:
Yes, if you're mashing in with 1.5 quarts PLUS 3 gallons, that's a very thin mash. Have you been able to take any pH readings?

You could batch sparge, but I'm not sure how to recirculate the mash well enough to make sure the grain was in contact with the water underneath the false bottom. Well, even with fly sparging I think that would be the case.

I never heard of any body who had 3 gallons of deadspace before. That's a LOT! Have you considered a HERMS, which would recirculate the mash and then make the the deadspace less of a factor?
Click to expand...

It dawned on me yesterday that the 3 gallons underneath might be culprit. I'm not sure if that's considered dead-space, because I can get almost all of that water out (minus 1 quart). Problem is, if I don't account for that extra 3 gallons, I'll have some incredibly thick mashes - too thick.

I haven't taken any PH readings - perhaps that's to blame.

The system is a single-tier direct fire RIMs system, so I could, but haven't recirculated the mash, other than during mash out.

I figured during the 15+min mash out, that water on the bottom has been taken from the bottom and replaced with denser mash-water within the grainbed. I also thought the 1.5-2" of sparge water on top of the grain is pushing the denser wort through. So those 3 gallons shouldn't be too big of a factor, but I'm starting to think it is.

This was my 3 batch brewed on this system, so i'm still working out the nuances.

Thanks for the reply
 
Whoa here! Back up some and let's take a closer look at this. First off, verify that there is actually 3 gallons of "dead space". I don't like the term dead space. I prefer foundation space. The water and wort in that space will get mixed during circulation. It will be fully in play. Three gallons is a lot. Most converted keg set ups with a full FB have a foundation space of about one gallon.

Here is what I would do. Run an experiment on your next batch. Dough in cold to hit about 100*F with the more or less standard 1.5 qts/lb strike water. Stir very well and let it rest for 10 minutes. Eyeball the grain bed. It should be saturated about like quicksand. The grain should be kind of loose and floating. If it's thick like oatmeal or worse, add more water until it's fully saturated. Fire up the burner and apply heat while circulating either manually or with a pump. The grain bed should consolidate some and there should be a layer liquid above the grain. The depth of this liquid will increase as the starches are dissolved into the water. Ramp up as fast as you can manage to your desired mash temp and do the rest as called for. Now then, shut off the burner and stop circulation. Stir the grain bed very well then resume heating and circulating to bring the grain bed up to 168-170*F for the mashout. Circulate and maintain the grain bed temperature at 170*F from 10-30 minutes depending on how patient you are or if you believe it will make any difference or not. Next, stop and stir once more and resume circulation SLOWLY for about 5 minutes or until the wort is running clear. Begin your slow sparge. Keep track of any water you added to the mash beyond the initial 1.5 qts/lb so you will know next time what ratio works best. You can go as low as 1 qt/lb which will give you more room for the foundation water. So, try it without adding any additional water until you are forced to and measure how much that extra is.

The multiple stirrings will boost your efficiency considerably. The last stirring immediately before the sparge is the most important one. Don't take my word for it, give it a try and see for yourself. My buddy is following this regimen and getting 89%+ every time and a few times through the roof. More often than not, he winds up having to dilute the wort to hit his target OG. You will probably see a lot of opinions counter to this advice, but all I can say is try it before you brush it off.
 
Catt22 said:
Whoa here! Back up some and let's take a closer look at this. First off, verify that there is actually 3 gallons of "dead space". I don't like the term dead space. I prefer foundation space. The water and wort in that space will get mixed during circulation. It will be fully in play. Three gallons is a lot. Most converted keg set ups with a full FB have a foundation space of about one gallon.

Here is what I would do. Run an experiment on your next batch. Dough in cold to hit about 100*F with the more or less standard 1.5 qts/lb strike water. Stir very well and let it rest for 10 minutes. Eyeball the grain bed. It should be saturated about like quicksand. The grain should be kind of loose and floating. If it's thick like oatmeal or worse, add more water until it's fully saturated. Fire up the burner and apply heat while circulating either manually or with a pump. The grain bed should consolidate some and there should be a layer liquid above the grain. The depth of this liquid will increase as the starches are dissolved into the water. Ramp up as fast as you can manage to your desired mash temp and do the rest as called for. Now then, shut off the burner and stop circulation. Stir the grain bed very well then resume heating and circulating to bring the grain bed up to 168-170*F for the mashout. Circulate and maintain the grain bed temperature at 170*F from 10-30 minutes depending on how patient you are or if you believe it will make any difference or not. Next, stop and stir once more and resume circulation SLOWLY for about 5 minutes or until the wort is running clear. Begin your slow sparge. Keep track of any water you added to the mash beyond the initial 1.5 qts/lb so you will know next time what ratio works best. You can go as low as 1 qt/lb which will give you more room for the foundation water. So, try it without adding any additional water until you are forced to and measure how much that extra is.

The multiple stirrings will boost your efficiency considerably. The last stirring immediately before the sparge is the most important one. Don't take my word for it, give it a try and see for yourself. My buddy is following this regimen and getting 89%+ every time and a few times through the roof. More often than not, he winds up having to dilute the wort to hit his target OG. You will probably see a lot of opinions counter to this advice, but all I can say is try it before you brush it off.
Click to expand...

Dynomite! - thanks for the suggestions. I will certainly give that a try.

You're right, I don't think the term dead-space is in accurate description for what is going on here. That wort/water, while under the grain bed, will be in play. The last batch I brewed, which had the added 3 gallons of water, left me with a very soupy mash, too thin.

I'll give it a crack this weekend and see how we do.

Just to clarify:

~dough in at 1.5quart/lb, or enough to fully saturate grain, at 100 +/- (document added water for future calculation);

~raise temp and circulate until desired mash temp is reached;

~rest mash (no circulating/stirring) for rest-period;

~Following rest period, stir well, and raise the temp while circulating to 168-170 (10-30 mins mashout);

~Stir well and recirculate slowly until wort is clear;

~Begin sparge;

I haven't stirred before my mashout or start of sparge, but will give it a try. This is only my third time brewing on this equipment, and suffice to say it's a bit different than my cooler and braided -bazooka tube. So far my efficiency has been off on 2 or the 3 batches.

It's a work in progress, thanks for the help.

Ryan
 
SantaClaus said:
Dynomite! - thanks for the suggestions. I will certainly give that a try.

You're right, I don't think the term dead-space is in accurate description for what is going on here. That wort/water, while under the grain bed, will be in play. The last batch I brewed, which had the added 3 gallons of water, left me with a very soupy mash, too thin.

I'll give it a crack this weekend and see how we do.

Just to clarify:

~dough in at 1.5quart/lb, or enough to fully saturate grain, at 100 +/- (document added water for future calculation);

~raise temp and circulate until desired mash temp is reached;

~rest mash (no circulating/stirring) for rest-period;

~Following rest period, stir well, and raise the temp while circulating to 168-170 (10-30 mins mashout);

~Stir well and recirculate slowly until wort is clear;

~Begin sparge;

I haven't stirred before my mashout or start of sparge, but will give it a try. This is only my third time brewing on this equipment, and suffice to say it's a bit different than my cooler and braided -bazooka tube. So far my efficiency has been off on 2 or the 3 batches.

It's a work in progress, thanks for the help.

Ryan
Click to expand...

You have it right except that you can circulate the wort during the entire mash which is what I do and add heat as necessary to maintain the target temp. My mash has lots of excess liquid @ 1.5 qrts/lb and I have about one gallon of foundation space below my Polarware 10 gal kettle.

IMO, stirring and stirrin a lot is the key to good efficiency and problem free lautering. I had an aversion to disturbing the mash bed for many years. Once I got over that BS, my efficiency jumped up a lot. Not a little, a lot. Don't forget that last part about SLOWLY circulating after the last stir. You don't want to avoid compacting the grain bed as much as possible at that point. Don't worry about the grain bed filtering ability when it's loosened up. It will consolidate in a few minutes and it's filtering abilities will be fully restored. Keep in mind that you are probably only circulating at about a gallon per minute or so. This means that it will take considerable time to turn over the entire mash volume and have it filtered by the grain bed. It could be 10 minutes for a full cycle depending on your mash volume (liquid portion). Might be less if you pump faster, but remember, you really don't want to do that at this point. Be patient and let the wort clear. It will happen fairly quickly. I think you will be surprised at the results for all of this.
 
Catt22 said:
You have it right except that you can circulate the wort during the entire mash which is what I do and add heat as necessary to maintain the target temp. My mash has lots of excess liquid @ 1.5 qrts/lb and I have about one gallon of foundation space below my Polarware 10 gal kettle.

IMO, stirring and stirrin a lot is the key to good efficiency and problem free lautering. I had an aversion to disturbing the mash bed for many years. Once I got over that BS, my efficiency jumped up a lot. Not a little, a lot. Don't forget that last part about SLOWLY circulating after the last stir. You don't want to avoid compacting the grain bed as much as possible at that point. Don't worry about the grain bed filtering ability when it's loosened up. It will consolidate in a few minutes and it's filtering abilities will be fully restored. Keep in mind that you are probably only circulating at about a gallon per minute or so. This means that it will take considerable time to turn over the entire mash volume and have it filtered by the grain bed. It could be 10 minutes for a full cycle depending on your mash volume (liquid portion). Might be less if you pump faster, but remember, you really don't want to do that at this point. Be patient and let the wort clear. It will happen fairly quickly. I think you will be surprised at the results for all of this.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the suggestions. I really appreciate the help and input provided on these boards. What a tremendous resource this place is.

I'm looking forward to trying this method this weekend. I had been under the impression that you don't want to disturb the grain bed at all once settled, and by doing so you would loose the beds ability to filter. So i've always recirculated very timidly, too timidly I'm thinking. But the way you're describing sounds like a better method of getting the sugar out of the grain, and avoid stuck mashes. Thanks again for all the help - I really appreciate the guidance.

cheers
 
SantaClaus said:
Thanks again for the suggestions. I really appreciate the help and input provided on these boards. What a tremendous resource this place is.

I'm looking forward to trying this method this weekend. I had been under the impression that you don't want to disturb the grain bed at all once settled, and by doing so you would loose the beds ability to filter. So i've always recirculated very timidly, too timidly I'm thinking. But the way you're describing sounds like a better method of getting the sugar out of the grain, and avoid stuck mashes. Thanks again for all the help - I really appreciate the guidance.

cheers
Click to expand...

Ah, well I have a HERMS. If I don't occasionally "cut" the grainbed, I can get some grainbed compaction issues. I don't stir much, but if the grain starts to compact, I do.

I've seen some commercial breweries with mash rakes. The rake continually stirs the mash, to increase and maximize efficiency. Not stirring the mash is a mistake, if you can maintain the temperature (RIMS or HERMS).
 
SantaClaus said:
Thanks again for the suggestions. I really appreciate the help and input provided on these boards. What a tremendous resource this place is.

I'm looking forward to trying this method this weekend. I had been under the impression that you don't want to disturb the grain bed at all once settled, and by doing so you would loose the beds ability to filter. So i've always recirculated very timidly, too timidly I'm thinking. But the way you're describing sounds like a better method of getting the sugar out of the grain, and avoid stuck mashes. Thanks again for all the help - I really appreciate the guidance.

cheers
Click to expand...

Be sure to post back with your results. I was under the same impression about disturbing the grain bed until not long ago. The thing to remember is that you can very easily reset the grain bed by gently resuming circulation for a bit before you start the runoff. I stir it thoroughly all the way down to the FB. The grain bed compacts from the bottom up, so it's important to get down to the bottom where it will be the most dense. Don't be overly concerned about a stuck mash. If it happens, just stop and stir then resume circulation. It's not a big deal at all. I actually expect the grain bed to get stuck at least once during the mash. I circulate as fast as I can get away with.
 
I have the same false bottom. I Got the FOUNDATION water down to about 2 gallons by taking a grinder and nipping the corners of the stainless support plates so they sit down a little further into the round part of the Kettle.
I really like that bottom and typically get 85% Efficiency and conduct my mash very similar to the way Catt22 does.
 
RoadKing said:
I have the same false bottom. I Got the FOUNDATION water down to about 2 gallons by taking a grinder and nipping the corners of the stainless support plates so they sit down a little further into the round part of the Kettle.
I really like that bottom and typically get 85% Efficiency and conduct my mash very similar to the way Catt22 does.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. I was thinking of cutting the support bars and making them half as high, if possible. Grinding the corners down would be easier though.

It's a nice false bottom, I'm working out the mash water still. Actually brewing right now so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions folks - I really appreciate the insight.
 
Just wanted to post a follow up.

I'm brewing a PA now, and just hit my pre-boil gravity on the nose using the techniques you guys have shared on here. I eneded up reducing the volume of strike water and recirculating throughout the mash and stirring occasionally. Mashed out, let the grain bed settled and fly sparged off. Ended up hitting the pre-boil on the button @ estimated 80% efficiency.

Thanks for all the help.
 
My rig sounds very much like yours- a modified RIMS system. I had a similar problem that you had. I would start by heating my strike water in HLT then transfer into the mash kettle only to under shoot the temp every time. So I added a burner under my MT and started heating strike water up to temp +4 degrees. Prime the pump and rims and as it heated and keep recirculating. Kill the pump, add the grain, stir. And stir at the 20 & 40 min mark. It resettles quickly! My false bottom is "Jays" and works great! I mash in at 1.25qts/# now. Hope this helps.
 
SantaClaus said:
Hey all I have a couple questions regarding strike water and mashing volumes. I think I'm on the right path here, but missed my OG yesterday and am hoping the wise-folks here can help me out.

So here's the deal, I'm using a sanke keg with a PICO style false bottom for my MLT - http://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-PICO-style-keg-kettle-false-bottom_p_1010.html

With this I have 3gallons of space under the false bottom. I do, however, have a dip tube under the false bottom that sucks up all but a quart of water. To equate for this empty space I add 3 additional gallons of stike water to my mash, to bring the water level up to the false bottom.

For example if I'm mashing 15lbs of grain w/ 1.5quarts per lb
(15 x 1.5 = 22.5quarts or 5.6 gallons) I'll add a total of 8.6 gallons of strike water; 3 to fill the dead space and 5.6 to mash the grain.

At the conclusion of my mash, I'll fire up the burner (modest flame) and slowly recirculate from the bottom to the top of the grain bed until the mash bed has reached 168 - takes about 15mins.

From there I'll begin transferring wort into the brew kettle, while slowly fly-sparging the grain w/ 175degree water. I'll build up about 1.5 -2" of water on top of my grain bed, while draining wort off at the same rate water is being added. This takes about 45min - 1 hr to achieve the 6.5-7.0 gallons of wort for my boil.

Yesterday I brewed a Belgian dubbel which BeerSmith calculated having a 1.070 pre-boil gravity w/ 1.090 final. I was a bit shy of that 1.052 per-boil, 1.072 post.

Anyone have any ideas?

- is it that extra 3 gallons of water? - should I do away with that?

Could I batch sparge with this dead space, and if so how?

Thanks in advance for the help
Click to expand...

Hi Santa Clause...I'm in Chicago too and I have ths same setup you do... It sounds like I have the exact same issue you had also...I have done three mashes on my new rig with the pico fb and the 3 gallons of foundation space is throwing me off...can you update me on your process and any modifications you have done...

I look forward to your response! Thanks!
Ed
 
Crimsonwine said:
Hi Santa Clause...I'm in Chicago too and I have ths same setup you do... It sounds like I have the exact same issue you had also...I have done three mashes on my new rig with the pico fb and the 3 gallons of foundation space is throwing me off...can you update me on your process and any modifications you have done...

I look forward to your response! Thanks!
Ed
Click to expand...

Hey Ed - hell of a Chi-town winter ah?

Here's how I've been brewing with that setup and been having pretty good luck.

I heat 1.5 quarts/lb grain + a few extra gallons of strike water (3-4) up to temp, add the 1.5 quarts/lb volume to the tun and dough in the grain. When I've added enough grain that the mash becomes real thick, I'll slowly adds more water while stirring the grain until it reaches the right consistency. Loose oatmeal/quick sandish. It typically comes out to about 1.75 - 2.0 quarts/lb. It's tough to figure out a volume per lb value, because you'll end up with far too much water as the grain weight increases.

I give the mash a good stir and recirculate the liquid. At least every twenty minutes I'll turn off the pump and stir the mash real good, working the whole tun, false bottom to top. Then, let the grain settle for a couple minutes and then continue recirculating at a medium to light flow. During the mashing I'll apply heat as needed, and at the end of the mash period I heat and slowly recirculate to mash-out. I fly sparge it from there out.

I'd like to try batch sparging, but haven't. Not sure how it would work out with the 3-gallons of reserve space. I would think with all the grain agitation and recirculating it would work out just fine...

I've had pretty good luck doing this. I think solid grain agitation is the key to pulling as much sugar as possible out. On a couple recent beers I didn't stir as much and missed the target OG. Recirculating the liquid is also essential to bring that bottom liquid into play. I use a pump for that, but I'm sure a manual method would just fine too.

Hope this helps -
 
SantaClaus said:
Hey Ed - hell of a Chi-town winter ah?

Here's how I've been brewing with that setup and been having pretty good luck.

I heat 1.5 quarts/lb grain + a few extra gallons of strike water (3-4) up to temp, add the 1.5 quarts/lb volume to the tun and dough in the grain. When I've added enough grain that the mash becomes real thick, I'll slowly adds more water while stirring the grain until it reaches the right consistency. Loose oatmeal/quick sandish. It typically comes out to about 1.75 - 2.0 quarts/lb. It's tough to figure out a volume per lb value, because you'll end up with far too much water as the grain weight increases.

I give the mash a good stir and recirculate the liquid. At least every twenty minutes I'll turn off the pump and stir the mash real good, working the whole tun, false bottom to top. Then, let the grain settle for a couple minutes and then continue recirculating at a medium to light flow. During the mashing I'll apply heat as needed, and at the end of the mash period I heat and slowly recirculate to mash-out. I fly sparge it from there out.

I'd like to try batch sparging, but haven't. Not sure how it would work out with the 3-gallons of reserve space. I would think with all the grain agitation and recirculating it would work out just fine...



I've had pretty good luck doing this. I think solid grain agitation is the key to pulling as much sugar as possible out. On a couple recent beers I didn't stir as much and missed the target OG. Recirculating the liquid is also essential to bring that bottom liquid into play. I use a pump for that, but I'm sure a manual method would just fine too.

Hope this helps -
Click to expand...


Thanks for getting back to me....it is lovely weather... :)

Just to clarify....I assume you add the water and the first three gallons go to the dead space beneath the FB....then you keep adding to get the consistency of the mash you want...in your case about 1.5qt/lb...

I did have a pick up tube, but removed it on the last batch on advice from where I bought it...I also batch sparged thinking that would help...that did not...so for next batch I already re-installed the pickup tube and will go back to fly sparging...much better efficiency...

currently I am just doing 5 gallon batches till i get everything worked out...

Not sure where you are at..I am on the southside...

I came across your post and thought how Ironic, because I was basically gonna write the same thing...it still bothers me there is 3 gallons of water below the FB...

Here is a picture of my rig...

brewrig.jpg
 
Crimsonwine said:
Thanks for getting back to me....it is lovely weather... :)

Just to clarify....I assume you add the water and the first three gallons go to the dead space beneath the FB....then you keep adding to get the consistency of the mash you want...in your case about 1.5qt/lb...

I did have a pick up tube, but removed it on the last batch on advice from where I bought it...I also batch sparged thinking that would help...that did not...so for next batch I already re-installed the pickup tube and will go back to fly sparging...much better efficiency...

currently I am just doing 5 gallon batches till i get everything worked out...

Not sure where you are at..I am on the southside...

I came across your post and thought how Ironic, because I was basically gonna write the same thing...it still bothers me there is 3 gallons of water below the FB...

Here is a picture of my rig...

brewrig.jpg
Click to expand...

Dang sweet rig Ed -- Maybe you could help me out with something..... I've got a Brutus-esque stand as well, not as polished up as yours (how the hell do you do that..?), but I haven't automated mine yet. I do all temp control manually. Which is alright, but really if you have stand it really should be temp-controlled. Do you know anything about installing the solenoids (asco valves) and the temperature controller (forgot what those are called....)? I do not... I've got a few Honeywell furnace solenoids, but haven't been able to figure out how to rig it up yet. I hoping to track someone down in the greater Chicago area who could give me some advice. Or even just show me how to hook it up. Gas/electricity/liquid has me a little nervous about DYI.

One more question -- are you using lids on your kegs? I've got some quick-releases on the sides of my kegs which work, problem is they spill a little liquid whenever I disconnect to transfer hoses- I end up w/ burnt wort on my stand. I need to track down some lids to fit a keg and built something similar to what Lonnie Mac has on his Brutus.


Okay - back to your question. I basically calculate out a minimum of 1.5quarts/lb of water and transfer that to the tun, then add grain until the mash becomes too thick. Then I just add more water until the mash thins out to the right consistency.

For example: If I've got a 22lbs of grain, I'll transfer (22 x 1.5quarts = 33quarts; or 8.25gallons) into the tun. 3 gallons fill the deadspace/reserve the remaining 5.25 sit on top, which is far too little for 22lbs grain. I'll add as much grain as I can until it just becomes too thick to really stir. Then I start adding water, stirring and adding the rest of the grain until the mash looks good. It typically calculates out to about 1.75 - 2 quarts/lb - in the end. ( so that's about 11 gallons water total). Basically, I'm doing it a lot more by feel and look than the actual measurement. I just use the 1.5quarts per lb as my starting point to figure out how much water to warm up at a minimum, and warm a few extra gallons.

When I first got this FB I was putting 3gallons below the FB and then mashing 1.5quart/lb on top of that, but my efficiency was off. I started winging it after that.

**Actually, just doing the math now I think you might be alright taking 1.5 quarts/lb + 3 gallons to accommodate the dead space for your mash volume. (In my little example that come out to 11.25 gallons vs 11 gallons which is 2quarts/lb which is what I typically result in after I'm done mixing by feel). You just need to make sure you circulate the liquid to bring that 3 gallons into play. I can't believe I haven't thought of that until now, maybe there is a standard way of doing it..... We might be on to something here.

My outflow valve is below the FB and have a small dip tube that reaches down into the bottom of the keg. I sort of bend one of the false bottom stays little to accommodate the dip tube. It seems to work pretty well. The guys who sold me the false bottom told me to go without a dip tube too, but that just leaves too much liquid in the bottom of the keg.

I think batch sparging might be possible as long as you recirculate the liquid throughout the mash period and stir the crap out of the grain. You need that liquid under and on top of the false bottom to be the same. I just haven't tried it yet. Maybe next time I brew-- I could certainly benefit from shaving some time off my brewday.

I hope this helps.... I'm self taught w/ a lot of this so I don't know if this is the absolute best way of doing it, but it's been working pretty well for me.

Cheers!
Ryan
ps: I'm in the western suburbs (La Grange).
 
SantaClaus said:
Dang sweet rig Ed -- Maybe you could help me out with something..... I've got a Brutus-esque stand as well, not as polished up as yours (how the hell do you do that..?), but I haven't automated mine yet. I do all temp control manually. Which is alright, but really if you have stand it really should be temp-controlled. Do you know anything about installing the solenoids (asco valves) and the temperature controller (forgot what those are called....)? I do not... I've got a few Honeywell furnace solenoids, but haven't been able to figure out how to rig it up yet. I hoping to track someone down in the greater Chicago area who could give me some advice. Or even just show me how to hook it up. Gas/electricity/liquid has me a little nervous about DYI.

One more question -- are you using lids on your kegs? I've got some quick-releases on the sides of my kegs which work, problem is they spill a little liquid whenever I disconnect to transfer hoses- I end up w/ burnt wort on my stand. I need to track down some lids to fit a keg and built something similar to what Lonnie Mac has on his Brutus.


Okay - back to your question. I basically calculate out a minimum of 1.5quarts/lb of water and transfer that to the tun, then add grain until the mash becomes too thick. Then I just add more water until the mash thins out to the right consistency.

For example: If I've got a 22lbs of grain, I'll transfer (22 x 1.5quarts = 33quarts; or 8.25gallons) into the tun. 3 gallons fill the deadspace/reserve the remaining 5.25 sit on top, which is far too little for 22lbs grain. I'll add as much grain as I can until it just becomes too thick to really stir. Then I start adding water, stirring and adding the rest of the grain until the mash looks good. It typically calculates out to about 1.75 - 2 quarts/lb - in the end. ( so that's about 11 gallons water total). Basically, I'm doing it a lot more by feel and look than the actual measurement. I just use the 1.5quarts per lb as my starting point to figure out how much water to warm up at a minimum, and warm a few extra gallons.

When I first got this FB I was putting 3gallons below the FB and then mashing 1.5quart/lb on top of that, but my efficiency was off. I started winging it after that.

**Actually, just doing the math now I think you might be alright taking 1.5 quarts/lb + 3 gallons to accommodate the dead space for your mash volume. (In my little example that come out to 11.25 gallons vs 11 gallons which is 2quarts/lb which is what I typically result in after I'm done mixing by feel). You just need to make sure you circulate the liquid to bring that 3 gallons into play. I can't believe I haven't thought of that until now, maybe there is a standard way of doing it..... We might be on to something here.

My outflow valve is below the FB and have a small dip tube that reaches down into the bottom of the keg. I sort of bend one of the false bottom stays little to accommodate the dip tube. It seems to work pretty well. The guys who sold me the false bottom told me to go without a dip tube too, but that just leaves too much liquid in the bottom of the keg.

I think batch sparging might be possible as long as you recirculate the liquid throughout the mash period and stir the crap out of the grain. You need that liquid under and on top of the false bottom to be the same. I just haven't tried it yet. Maybe next time I brew-- I could certainly benefit from shaving some time off my brewday.

I hope this helps.... I'm self taught w/ a lot of this so I don't know if this is the absolute best way of doing it, but it's been working pretty well for me.

Cheers!
Ryan
ps: I'm in the western suburbs (La Grange).
Click to expand...

I'll pm you
 
Here's a pic of how I rounded the corners of the support plates.
By doing this I got the water underneath to 2 Gallons.
What I do is fill water to the bottom of false bottom,(2 gals./8 Qts.) then use 1.33 Qts. Per Lb.
For a typical 10 gallon batch using around 20 lbs of grain, the ratio ends up being
1.67-1.7 Qts. per. Lb.
I don't do 5 gallon batches, but by making the mash a little stiffer, say 1.2 Qts per. Lb.
plus the 8 Qts. below the bottom you can get the ratio down to 2 Qts per. Lb. which should be acceptable.

supports.jpg
 
RoadKing said:
Here's a pic of how I rounded the corners of the support plates.
By doing this I got the water underneath to 2 Gallons.
What I do is fill water to the bottom of false bottom,(2 gals./8 Qts.) then use 1.33 Qts. Per Lb.
For a typical 10 gallon batch using around 20 lbs of grain, the ratio ends up being
1.67-1.7 Qts. per. Lb.
I don't do 5 gallon batches, but by making the mash a little stiffer, say 1.2 Qts per. Lb.
plus the 8 Qts. below the bottom you can get the ratio down to 2 Qts per. Lb. which should be acceptable.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I already installed the ball valve and if I drop the FB any lower it will interfere with said ball valve...Also I doubt I could move the ball valve any lower due to curvature of the keggle....
 

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