Not enough hop flavour or aroma

Hi, my regular bitter is 9 lb pale malt mashed at 67-68 deg C, with the wort boiled for 1 hour. 1 oz of cascade hops are added for 60, 30, 15, 5 and 2 minutes. This is for 6 gals of beer. I get plenty, maybe too much bitterness and not enough flavour or aroma. I have a very violent rolling boil and wonder if this is the problem, but any suggestions most welcome, thanks.

A really strong boil will drive off the hop oils, sounds like what happened. next time, cut the heat back when you start the flavor/aroma adds.

Alas, I cannot control the heat, it is either full boil or no boil, I am trying to figure out how to drop the power in the element with a resistor or rheostat. I will try manually turning boil on and off for last 30 mins. I would have hoped 5 minute and 2 minute boils would give me flavour and aroma, could I increase hop amounts for 5 min and 2 min boils?

Try moving your 30 min closer to 10 or 5 and see what happens.

Do you dry hop?

I would move the late hop additions in. Try 20, 5 and flameout. The final addition should really help since it will be after you cut the heat. You could also dryhop it. And try a FWH with a portion of the 20 min addition. Something about the reaction that occurs during FWH prevents the flavor contributions from being driven off during the boil. I would go: .5 oz FWH, .5 oz 20 min, 1 oz 5 min, and 1 oz flameout.

Dump the last hop addition in at flamout. Also - dry hopping will greatly increase the hop flavor. I have found that whole hops seems to work best as the aroma hops addition.

Could be dangerous, but could you partially cover the boil to retain some of the hop goodies? It'd be pretty nerve-wracking though

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

Hi, my regular bitter is 9 lb pale malt mashed at 67-68 deg C, with the wort boiled for 1 hour. 1 oz of cascade hops are added for 60, 30, 15, 5 and 2 minutes. This is for 6 gals of beer. I get plenty, maybe too much bitterness and not enough flavour or aroma. I have a very violent rolling boil and wonder if this is the problem, but any suggestions most welcome, thanks.

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You're in the UK and you are brewing bitter with Cascade hops? Please seek professional help. Regardless of the hop choice I would suggest using the traditional British ale hop schedule of one addition for full boil and one addition late, between 15 to 10 minutes. Increasing the quantity of hops in the late addition will give you more flavor & aroma without affecting the bitterness appreciably.

In UK citrus / grapefruit flavoured beers are popular, what is FWH please, I don't dry hop, are my hop amounts in right ball park?

A simple, effective bandaid is to fix the beer while it is still in the fermenter by preparing more hops on the stovetop and adding. A muslin bag or stainless tea infuser ball can be used to hold the hops so they don't end up in the fermenter. Or, just pour the whole thing in and rack carefully later.

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

In UK citrus / grapefruit flavoured beers are popular, what is FWH please, I don't dry hop, are my hop amounts in right ball park?

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FWH = First Wort Hopping = Adding hops to the freshly drained wort, before starting the heat for your boil. A search on the topic will explain it a whole lot better than I can.

thanks for all the help, with give feedback after next brew.

What is the AA#s of the cascade hops? pellet or flowers(whole hops)

using what you posted and cascade of 5.75AA:
SG 1.043
45IBU

This is something to try for more aroma-taste using the same amount of hops>

IBU: 42.4

28g. Cascade First WH
28g. Cascade 60 min.
42g. Cascade 15 min.
42g. Cascade 2 min.
-------------------------
If you can add another 28g in dry hopping and you'll get even more hoppy aroma-taste.

thanks again all will report back in due course.

how long does it take from the time you turn off the heat until the wort cools? If it's too hot for too long you will lose aroma and gain extra bittering.

dry-hopping is the best way to get aroma.

I didn't see anyone mention rapidly chilling wort at knock out and "whirlpool" hopping...

From The Secret to Big Hop Aroma and Flavor on JZ's site www.mrmalty.com...

[Matt] Brynildson [of Firestone Walker] says, “Getting great hop aroma takes execution, knowing your raw materials and knowing your brewhouse. If you throw hops into the whirlpool and then take two hours to cool, you will not get the effect you are looking for. We throw our late hops into the whirlpool at the last possible moment and then cool and transfer to the fermenter as quickly as possible.”

I've found this to be true in my system. I have not done a side by side test but in a recent brew I threw in my last hops at the same time I start the chiller. With 50* hose water in AZ I was able to chill must faster than summer and within 2 min was below 140 and minutes later was below 80. It has the best hop flavor of any beer I've brewed.

More food for thought.

I have a very good cooling coil, I get down to 10 deg C in around 20 minutes. I have just made a new brew using hop rates and times suggested here. AA of my cascade is 7%. Will report in 4 weeks.

Hi all, 8 weeks ago I asked for advice re getting more hop flavour and aroma. General consensus was more hops at 15 and 5 minutes before end of boil. The test batch was a pale bitter made with maris otter pale malt, no other grains. It was about 4% ABV and I hopped with only cascade hops, 1oz 60 mins, 2oz 15 mins, 2 oz 5 mins, 1 oz 2 mins.

It is spot on, lovely flavour and aroma with ok bitterness.

Some of you do not agree with me, but I bottle as soon as the wort begins to clear at the top, using a jug and funnel, no priming sugar is added to the bottles. I always bottle in several 1 litre tonic water bottles, the rest glass bottles, that way the plastic bottles act as pressure detectors. Never had a bottle burst in over 30 years, although some have foamed so much that the beer is wasted, that has not happened for several years, though.

It's probably frowned on around here, but I have been using a french press to make hop tea that I toss into the fermenter with my chilled wort.

Aroma and Flavor? You bet!

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

Hi all, 8 weeks ago I asked for advice re getting more hop flavour and aroma. General consensus was more hops at 15 and 5 minutes before end of boil. The test batch was a pale bitter made with maris otter pale malt, no other grains. It was about 4% ABV and I hopped with only cascade hops, 1oz 60 mins, 2oz 15 mins, 2 oz 5 mins, 1 oz 2 mins.

It is spot on, lovely flavour and aroma with ok bitterness.

Some of you do not agree with me, but I bottle as soon as the wort begins to clear at the top, using a jug and funnel, no priming sugar is added to the bottles. I always bottle in several 1 litre tonic water bottles, the rest glass bottles, that way the plastic bottles act as pressure detectors. Never had a bottle burst in over 30 years, although some have foamed so much that the beer is wasted, that has not happened for several years, though.

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RE: Your carbing method.... WOW. All I can say is wow. It is quite interesting you get acceptable carb levels, I think your method is very unique - at least to home brewing. Obviously, the only shortfall you could have would be zero control over the level of carbonation. (IE looking for certain number of c02 volumes) Although, when you are drinking it yourself who really cares about that? As long as it tastes good. Good on ya!

You do this as soon as the wort is cooled after flameout?

BendBrewer said:

It's probably frowned on around here, but I have been using a french press to make hop tea that I toss into the fermenter with my chilled wort.

Aroma and Flavor? You bet!

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errrr, what is a french press, please?

French Press=Coffee maker, like a small pitcher with a fine mesh stainless screen and a plunger to drive it down. I have used one to add hop aroma to the keg before, too using ~150˚ F water, steep the hops for a few minutes, then drain into beer.

Brewinator said:

You do this as soon as the wort is cooled after flameout?

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I sterilize the Press, put 1 - 1.5 oz hops in it and add boiling water. Wait an hour and press. (I do this twice)

I dump it right into my Primary and add my chilled wort to it.


"POW, right in the kisser!"

Have you experimented with the amount of time steeping? Seems like less time than a full 60 would yeild more of the fleeting oils that produce flavor and aroma, like with late hopping.

BendBrewer said:

I sterilize the Press, put 1 - 1.5 oz hops in it and add boiling water. Wait an hour and press. (I do this twice)

I dump it right into my Primary and add my chilled wort to it.


"POW, right in the kisser!"

Click to expand...

Brewinator said:

Have you experimented with the amount of time steeping? Seems like less time than a full 60 would yeild more of the fleeting oils that produce flavor and aroma, like with late hopping.

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I haven't. The water temp drops fairly quickly in the press and I don't get a lot of aroma loss while it steeps.

To be honest, I don't know why I went with an hour steep, but I have 3 batches of FP Tea in the mix. Might take some time off for the next batch to see if there is much difference.

But the key is to not have it boil with the hops.

I think.

My hop tea experiments to date have been post-fermentation to avoid such oil losses, but I have experienced grass bombs. Fridge aging and it subsides a bit, but still grassy notes. I'd been reading this thread about it.

But I figger pre- or during fermentation will remove the grassiness, just as it does from regular wort.

Since I'm getting some grassiness in my dry hopping, I wanted to look into this again, but before fermentation has ended.

So in my latest Amarillo DIPA, I did two 10-12 minute 170F steeps, and pitched into active krausen on consecutive days (days 2 and 3 after pitching yeast). I'm not going to dry hop this batch just for comparison. If it works out, I'll try both the tea infusion during active fermentation, and then a reduced dry hopping later. I'll let you know how it turns out.

BendBrewer said:

I haven't. The water temp drops fairly quickly in the press and I don't get a lot of aroma loss while it steeps.

To be honest, I don't know why I went with an hour steep, but I have 3 batches of FP Tea in the mix. Might take some time off for the next batch to see if there is much difference.

But the key is to not have it boil with the hops.

I think.

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