Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock Clone

I love this beer, so I'd like to try this. Wondering if anyone has any advice before I try, or if you notice anything off about the recipe. This will probably be one of the more challenging brews I will have done.

Oh Ba Ha Ha Ha Ha Doppelbock - 3.5 gallons

8.5 lb German Munich
2.7 lb Wheat Malt
2.7 lb American Two-Row
2.4 lb Crystal 60
0.5 lb Chocolate Malt
0.75 oz Hallertauer (4.8% AA, 60 minutes)
0.5 oz Hallertauer (4.8% AA, 30 minutes)
WLP820 Oktoberfest Lager Yeast

OG=1.082
IBU=22

Make gallon starter a week in advance. Single-infusion mash at 151 F for 60
minutes. Batch sparge. Boil 30 minutes, then add bittering hops. Boil 30
minutes, then add bittering/flavoring hops. Cool, aerate very well, pitch
yeast sediment. Ferment at 50 F for 6 weeks. Rack and lager 45 days near
32 F. Prime with scant 1/2 cup sugar and bottle. Allow at least 2 weeks
prior to drinking. Flavor improves at warmer temperatures, so don't serve
ice cold. Enjoy.

I believe WL 833 Bock is the Ayinger strain, it does a great job in this sort of thing.

If you wanted to be like Ayinger you would also do a decoction.

I would lower the chocolate malt and crystal and swap them to German alternatives like carafa and caramunich. The original probably doesn't have wheat, but I did a doppelbock with 33% wheat that turned out great, so no morries there.

Good luck (and give it as much time to lager as you can stand).

Thanks.

Anyone have advice on the decoction? I've been reading up a bit, but this would be a first for me. I'm thinking a heatstick would make the decoction process much easier.

doggage said:

Thanks.

Anyone have advice on the decoction? I've been reading up a bit, but this would be a first for me. I'm thinking a heatstick would make the decoction process much easier.

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Decoctions aren't too bad, just keep the grain moving while it is on the heat and it won't burn. Also pull more grain than you think you need, my first few decoctions didn't get me the temperature jump I was expecting. How were you thinking of using the heat stick?

Okay, that doesn't sound bad. I was thinking I could use the heat stick to bring the grist I pull out to a boil, since I have only one burner and one kettle. How much grist should I be taking out? Could I just bring it to a boil on my electric stove top inside?

Yeah, no problem doing it on your electric stove (I would be worried that grain would stick to the heat stick and burn). The amount you need will need to pull depend on the volume of the mash and what temperature jump you are trying to make. I use promash to figure that out (you can use the free trial), just pull extra just in case you are low (or have some hot water ready).

I just did my first decoction mash in probably 10 years on Friday. I used BeerSmith's calculations and they never got me to my target temperature. I needed to pull more. Made for a frustrating experience. Given that BeerSmith's calculations have always been right on for infusion and temp controlled mashing, I though they'd work. Instead my double decoction turned into a triple.

So, as Oldsock says, pull more than the calculators suggest.

My efficiency goes way up with a decoction mash. Single infusion i build my recipes at 70% effeciency. For a decoction I build my recipes for 85% efficiency. So plan accordingly with your grain bill.

If you don't want to do a decoction you can add some melanoiden malt and I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. Personally I think doing a decoction mash is a waste of time on a batch size this small.

Also I agree with Oldsock about swapping the crystal 40 for some caramunich and the american 2 row for german pilsner malt. I'd also drop the wheat malt and replace it with more Pilsner and/or Munich malt as well.

thanks for the suggestions. after watching kaiser's video on decoction mashing, i think i'm going to put this off for a while. seems like a little more than i'm up for right now.

Decoction mashing is really NOT hard. It's just a little more time consuming and I've loved the effects. I've had fuller bodied, maltier beers as a result. I use my brew pot to heat my initial mash water - and I always have about 2 qts. more than I need in there. I pour in the necessary water into the mash tun, and reserve some of the water in the brew pot.

When you really break it down, you need to get your strike water to a temp to mash at about 135 for half an hour or so. Then simply pull some of the thickest part of the mash out of the mash tun, place it back into your brewpot with the excess water which has pre-heated to about 160. Heat the whole thing to 165 and let it sit for 20 minutes then bring it to a boil. Add it back into the main mash.

It's just a longer brewday.

We here is that video link??

Here's a link to a fun video by Michael Dawson on BrewingTV I just ran across that shows and explains the process nicely: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIQPQmELWPo[/ame]

Old thread but has anyone perfected this clone ? Is the above recipe close?

mkling said:

I just did my first decoction mash in probably 10 years on Friday. I used BeerSmith's calculations and they never got me to my target temperature. I needed to pull more. Made for a frustrating experience. Given that BeerSmith's calculations have always been right on for infusion and temp controlled mashing, I though they'd work. Instead my double decoction turned into a triple.

So, as Oldsock says, pull more than the calculators suggest.

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This was exactly my experience.

Hello, earth. Nice to meet you...

Would fermenting at 68deg and not lagering kill this beer? I really like this Dopplebock but I’m hesitant to tie up my fermenter for one beer for this amount of time. I am new to brewing and enjoy cranking out new beers. I keep my fermenter around 65-68deg and rotate beers as they are done.

jturman35 said:

Would fermenting at 68deg and not lagering kill this beer? I really like this Dopplebock but I’m hesitant to tie up my fermenter for one beer for this amount of time. I am new to brewing and enjoy cranking out new beers. I keep my fermenter around 65-68deg and rotate beers as they are done.

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If you're going to try it without lagering than I would go with another yeast. I'd use something a little more heat tolerant and I'd probably use WLP810, more California Common-esk if I wasnt going to lager. Another concern I would have is that bocks are typically big beers, and I have found that they need to be lagered/aged for some of those flavors to mellow out. Fwiw, I've had a Maibock lagering ~3 months and it continues to get better each month, but it probably still needs a little more time...

If I were going to make this with ale yeast, what ale yeast would be best to be more inline with the Ayinger Celebrator?

It's a lager, so an ale yeast could possibly be too estery, but if I were to think of some dry ale yeast, I would think K-97. It's a Kolsch-like strain, that is not estery, can handle lagering at lower, ale temperatures and can be fermented clean at 66-72F, at least from my limited experience with this yeast. ( Kolsch style beers and IPAs )

thehaze said:

It's a lager, so an ale yeast could possibly be too estery, but if I were to think of some dry ale yeast, I would think K-97. It's a Kolsch-like strain, that is not estery, can handle lagering at lower, ale temperatures and can be fermented clean at 66-72F, at least from my limited experience with this yeast. ( Kolsch style beers and IPAs )

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The reason I ask is, my fermentation space is a constant, ambient, 66 degrees.

How about Wyeast 1007?

In that case, you could try something in the lines of K-97 or even Nottingham, which can ferment lower than most ale strains ( although genetics show that Nottingham is a multi-strain - like most english yeast - and this one is a mix of lager and ale yeast / hope I'm not wrong here ).