copper vs. stainless

Just looking for a few more opinions in regards to wort chillers. Possible off flavors, durability of the material, etc...? What do you guys know?

I think most are using copper. You won't get any flavors unless your copper has that greenish/blue corrosion on it and you dump that in your wort. Just keep it fairly clean and forget about it.

I think the heat transfer differences are negligible but others will argue that point. I like stainless so that's what I use but it is definitely overkill. Will anyone on earth be able to tell that your beer was chilled with copper or stainless... nope.

Here is my justification for my stainless addiction:
If you are spending the money to have stainless ball valves, fittings, or anything else, why dump a huge piece of copper into the mix. If I am going to be using copper or brass anywhere in my system, I would just use it all over.

In the end, just decide if the money is worth a shiny piece of equipment. If not, get the copper.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

In the end, just decide if the money is worth a shiny piece of equipment. If not, get the copper.

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But these days, stainless is often cheaper than copper!

Personally I prefer stainless, as I always hated putting a dark colored copper coil into my wort and pulling out a shiny clean one 20 minutes later. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the final product.

I've not noticed any performance issues, it seems comparable to my copper chiller. If there is a difference, it's negligible.

Thanks guys for the info.

Copper is a much better conductor of heat than stainless steel. 28.6 times better, in fact. The only metal that beats copper is silver, and it doesn't beat copper by much.

Copper is an excellent brewery metal. It's also mildly germicidal. You shouldn't fear it.

yep. the Aztecs used copper for surgical tools. Clean copper oxide is pretty sterile.

If you're concerned about a dirty IC, dip it in some warm vinegar before your beer (rinse of course)

either that or just clean and dry your copper immediately after use.

bad coffee said:

If you're concerned about a dirty IC, dip it in some warm vinegar before your beer (rinse of course)

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Not the most convenient routine, eh? Unless you happen to keep a bucket of vinegar around the house.

StarSan would work, and a brewer is more likely to have a bucket full handy. Or just use stainless.

50 feet of 1/2" stainless at Mcmaster is $70 which is only about 50% more than the copper. It's listed as "bend with bending tool" and not by hand so I wonder if I could possibly muscle it around a corny.

billtzk said:

Copper is a much better conductor of heat than stainless steel. 28.6 times better, in fact. The only metal that beats copper is silver, and it doesn't beat copper by much.

Copper is an excellent brewery metal. It's also mildly germicidal. You shouldn't fear it.

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Unless the stainless falls off a truck, easy decision here.

Mike

1/2" copper tubing is typically .032" wall and the thinnest stainless I see is .020" so the heat transfer won't be 28 times less. Where maybe 30' of copper would do the job, maybe 50' of stainless would be.

Sorry to threadjack, but what about aluminum. Better heat transfer than stainless. But i'm not sure about the price.

emoutal said:

Sorry to threadjack, but what about aluminum. Better heat transfer than stainless. But i'm not sure about the price.

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For the price, you would definitely just go with the copper. Besides, copper is much more malleable than aluminium....which would make it more durable.

I prefer kryptonite.... that way if I ever have to fight someone who seems superhuman, I stand a chance....

That being said, I think its a matter of what you want to spend. Both are going to require cleaning, neither is going to be in contact with your wort long enough to cause issues with off-flavors.

Stainless DOES look nice, but copper has soldering and other such things going for it. There are reasons why the plumbing in your house isn't done in stainless steel hose

Thats just my 2 pennies

keep in mind, the copper that dissolves in the wort acts as a yeast nutrient so it's not the end of the world if it goes in looking dirty and comes out shiny.

SS is getting to be more affordable/available than copper....so that in itself is a pro for SS. That said, I'd still scramble to get a 50', 1/2" copper chiller. They're pretty efficient. SS is nice, and will probably only take a few minutes more to chill. You have to weigh the cost vs. benefit.

I think copper is sexier though......

ScubaSteve said:

I think copper is sexier though......

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The quality of the beer pr0n is a very important factor.

Bobby_M said:

50 feet of 1/2" stainless at Mcmaster is $70 which is only about 50% more than the copper. It's listed as "bend with bending tool" and not by hand so I wonder if I could possibly muscle it around a corny.

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I don't know about a corny, but I bent my 1/2 stainless around a pot that was the appropriate size I was looking for. It worked great, although it took a bit of muscle and 2 people. The other thing was that it did not hold the size of the pot the way copper does, it recoiled a bit so the diameter of the coil is larger than that of the pot.

From my post in another thread

"Used the chiller yesterday. With the brass fittings I wasn't able to measure the tube wall thickness.

Using 62° well water at my Dad's place, 5.5 gallons of wort went from boiling to 70 in almost exactly 20 minutes. I stirred twice, but mostly left it alone."

That was a 25' SS chiller.

While copper is a better conductor, I think the limiting factor in chilling is the transfer of heat from water to metal via convection, not the conduction through the metal itself. I just started a heat transfer course, so I'll try to talk to the prof about it. He did mention brewing beer when talking about applying heat transfer concepts to real life problems.

Stainless is just so "laboratory like". Nothing screams "my neighbor is a moon-shiner" louder that that gleaming massive copper IC hanging off your sculpture waiting to go in while brewing with the garage door up!

bull8042 said:

Stainless is just so "laboratory like". Nothing screams "my neighbor is a moon-shiner" louder that that gleaming massive copper IC hanging off your sculpture waiting to go in while brewing with the garage door up!

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No, a copper IC in plain view screams.."Scrap metal thieves come and rob me!"

I try to hide my copper items (and SS to a lesser degree) out of plain sight. These days, people are desperate enough to rip off an IC for the $50 they'd get at the recycling center. Likewise with kegs.

SS actually has some real benefits if you don't mind waiting longer to chill. It's sturdier, cleans up great, and is less of an invitation to get robbed.

I'd sure like to hear what your prof has to say about it hammacks. I'm surprised you were able to get the wort from boiling to 70 in 20 minutes with any chiller if you only stirred twice.

Here is the only thing I think needs to be mentioned about the ease of keeping copper from ruining the beer.

Never let water or anything (wort) stay in the copper coil for long periods of time. It will corrode and make a blue powder which can make beer taste bad. I always flush mine with hot water just after use and drain it. I have an air compressor which I use for this as it is hard to get it all out of the tubing. If you do forget and it gets crusty then brush its interior with a brush and hot PBW and rinse with very hot water.

ScubaSteve said:

No, a copper IC in plain view screams.."Scrap metal thieves come and rob me!"

I try to hide my copper items (and SS to a lesser degree) out of plain sight. These days, people are desperate enough to rip off an IC for the $50 they'd get at the recycling center. Likewise with kegs.

SS actually has some real benefits if you don't mind waiting longer to chill. It's sturdier, cleans up great, and is less of an invitation to get robbed.

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OK, I will give you that but I am fortunate enough to live in a cul-de-sac in a very low-crime neighborhood. None of my neighbors need the funds from scrap and we don't see people cruising by because there is no exit.

i bit the bullet, and bought a stainless steel chiller, b/c the lower maintenance was a big plus for me, and figured if it really did suck i would just return it and get a copper instead.

I stirred more than twice (like maybe 30 seconds every 5 min), and it still got it from boiling to 70 degrees in 20 minutes.

I think the problem is that people get used to doing things a certain way, and thats how they teach the new people to do it, and the new people take it as gospel, and when something different comes along it MUST automatically be wrong, because its not how theyve done things, or anyone else they know.

The science does back copper as a better conductor, but we're talking about 5-5.5 gal boils here for most people, where the conductivity difference translates into only a few seconds difference.

For the everyday homebrewer making normal batches...from my experience, stainless gets the job done pretty damn quick as well.

I'm not sure any of us are arguing that stainless is a bad choice, but I would argue it is still the more expensive choice....which is the major driver in any of my purchases

its02003 said:

I'm not sure any of us are arguing that stainless is a bad choice, but I would argue it is still the more expensive choice....which is the major driver in any of my purchases

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Not from my experience: Midwest Chillers

Well there you go....stainless it is!!!!!!

It really is pathetic that stainless is cheaper than copper these days....

its02003 said:

Well there you go....stainless it is!!!!!!

It really is pathetic that stainless is cheaper than copper these days....

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Actually, it's pathetic that copper is more expensive than stainless, but I get your point.

lol what do you mean, stainless is noticably cheaper than copper in the current market, as people have mentioned

bull8042 said:

OK, I will give you that but I am fortunate enough to live in a cul-de-sac in a very low-crime neighborhood. None of my neighbors need the funds from scrap and we don't see people cruising by because there is no exit.

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Cul-de-sacs are nice if you're cool with your neighbors.

I live in CA and you can't trust anyone out here. You can live in a nice neighborhood, but 3 streets over you're on the wrong side of the tracks. I guess that's what happens when you try to jam everyone together.

WBC said:

Here is the only thing I think needs to be mentioned about the ease of keeping copper from ruining the beer.

Never let water or anything (wort) stay in the copper coil for long periods of time. It will corrode and make a blue powder which can make beer taste bad. I always flush mine with hot water just after use and drain it. I have an air compressor which I use for this as it is hard to get it all out of the tubing. If you do forget and it gets crusty then brush its interior with a brush and hot PBW and rinse with very hot water.

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Is this how you clean your CFC, or your IC?

ScubaSteve said:

Cul-de-sacs are nice if you're cool with your neighbors.

I live in CA and you can't trust anyone out here. You can live in a nice neighborhood, but 3 streets over you're on the wrong side of the tracks. I guess that's what happens when you try to jam everyone together.

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Yeah, nothing lasts forever. Our neighborhood is out in the county so we are not on top of anyone. But the way it is growing around here, it is only a matter of time until it grows to the point of being in the exact same situation you are referring to.
I hope to be retired or at least semi-retired and living in Mexico way before that happens.