Brewhemoth conical clean in place (CIP) systems

Anyone looking for a solid pump for their CIP setup should check these out:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00571IFN6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

They are a sureflow positive pressure pump. 45 psi, with a switch bumping them up to 60psi, right in the 30-60psi working range of most CIP balls.

Ordered a couple for my setup...waiting for them to come in.

What do you feel that pump brings to the table that something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/900W-1-HP-S...921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5f0218a1 won't deliver?

As long as the pump you mentioned produces enough PSI then I don't think there is really any advantage to either.

The only thing I can think of that the pump I mentioned would do that the one you mentioned wouldn't is creating a closed loop wash. The pump pumps from the dump valve back up into the CIP ball. not sure that's really an advantage though.

I like to be able to see my CIP solution at home, but that is just me; so I skipped the Shurflo pump. I think the 1/2 inch opening might not move enough water, but I am just guessing (for my sprayball).

I found a 1/3hp Superior Pump on Amazon for $39 (Warehouse Deals) and hooked up a Brewer's Hardware Sprayball welded into a 4 inch TC Cap with a 3/4 inch hose barb (90 degree angle) x 1.5 inch TC and some 3/4 inch ID vinyl tubing on the pumps garden hose adapter.

Works awesome! My Brewhemoth has been rinsed, re-passivated, rinsed and PBW'ed in the last 24 hours.

Pride aside, I want to mention that the shurflow pump I mentioned above just doesn't push enough to really clean the inside of the brewhemoth very well. I don't want anyone ordering one because I didn't update this thread.

I ended up going overboard and bought a flowtec 1/2HP high output sump pump that moves 4680GPH.

fakr said:

Pride aside, I want to mention that the shurflow pump I mentioned above just doesn't push enough to really clean the inside of the brewhemoth very well. I don't want anyone ordering one because I didn't update this thread.

I ended up going overboard and bought a flowtec 1/2HP high output sump pump that moves 4680GPH.

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I disagree with this. I use the Shurflo pump for my CIP and have never had a problem. This has been true with kegs, Brewhemoth, kettles and for nitric acid passivation as well. Only thing I can think of is if you're using a sprayer not suitable for the pump output. But the PVDF nozzle from McMaster is perfect for it.

How big is the CIP ball you're using jcaudill?

What I noticed with the shurflow is the output was similar to a house water tap. If I restricted the flow with my finger, it would spray high pressure, but when released would slow down again. The CIP ball I'm using is a 2" so there is little to no restriction so the pump doesn't turn the CIP ball.

There was a haze on my sanitizer that I CIP'd last night with a utility pump. It kind of looked greasy. I ended up cleaning and sanitizing by hand as not to ruin 15 gallons of wort.

I think the seal may be leaking oil and I would really like to use my spray ball from BrewersHardware. Time for a new pump?

Any thoughts?

thatjonguy said:

I like to be able to see my CIP solution at home, but that is just me; so I skipped the Shurflo pump. I think the 1/2 inch opening might not move enough water, but I am just guessing (for my sprayball).

I found a 1/3hp Superior Pump on Amazon for $39 (Warehouse Deals) and hooked up a Brewer's Hardware Sprayball welded into a 4 inch TC Cap with a 3/4 inch hose barb (90 degree angle) x 1.5 inch TC and some 3/4 inch ID vinyl tubing on the pumps garden hose adapter.

Works awesome! My Brewhemoth has been rinsed, re-passivated, rinsed and PBW'ed in the last 24 hours.

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So the new pump you bought is leaking oil? maybe it was coated with oil from the factory and should have been cleaned first? Not sure.

Maybe pump water through it, back into its own bucket, then let it sit for 20 minutes and see if there is an oil slick on the surface of the water.

If you're grabbing a new pump, I'd recommend a high flow sump pump. The higher the HP and GPH the better I guess.

The flowtec I bought was a little pricey at $190, but it has a 5 year warranty and works very well.

fakr said:

So the new pump you bought is leaking oil? maybe it was coated with oil from the factory and should have been cleaned first? Not sure.

Maybe pump water through it, back into its own bucket, then let it sit for 20 minutes and see if there is an oil slick on the surface of the water.

If you're grabbing a new pump, I'd recommend a high flow sump pump. The higher the HP and GPH the better I guess.

The flowtec I bought was a little pricey at $190, but it has a 5 year warranty and works very well.

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I ran PBW through it when I opened it. Maybe a small amount of beer glass detergent (not soap)? I bought a 1/3 hp utility/sump, it puts out 40 gpm. It spins the ball just fine.

I will have to try this.

Actually, now that I think of it, the PBW I ran through my brewhemoths the first time came out oily too. The brewhemoths, I'm assuming, have a "factory" oil coating on them that needs to be fully washed off prior to using...this might be what you saw in your water.

I'd give it another wash as see if you you notice any more oil...I suspect you won't.

fakr said:

Actually, now that I think of it, the PBW I ran through my brewhemoths the first time came out oily too. The brewhemoths, I'm assuming, have a "factory" oil coating on them that needs to be fully washed off prior to using...this might be what you saw in your water.

I'd give it another wash as see if you you notice any more oil...I suspect you won't.

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I have cleaned it prior to this, with PBW and a drill mounted keg cleaner. This was the first go around on CIP. Rinse, PBW, Rinse and Sani-Clean. The oily looking haze was on the sani-clean.

Hmmm, did you use hot water? maybe the pump overheated and sprung a leak?

fakr said:

Actually, now that I think of it, the PBW I ran through my brewhemoths the first time came out oily too. The brewhemoths, I'm assuming, have a "factory" oil coating on them that needs to be fully washed off prior to using...this might be what you saw in your water.

I'd give it another wash as see if you you notice any more oil...I suspect you won't.

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I ran into the same thing. I've now run three clean cycles through my brewhemoth and the first one came out a bit oily and grimy. I noticed when inspecting the inside prior to cleaning it that there appeared to be a bit of gunk and grime on the inside. I chalked it up to the fabrication processes and haven't noticed any oil on subsequent cleanings.

fakr said:

Hmmm, did you use hot water? maybe the pump overheated and sprung a leak?

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I used hot but I took the screen off the bottom and everything looks ok, I didn't see large amounts of oil or anything by the impeller.

Maybe it just cleaned the Brewhemoth that good, LOL.

thatjonguy said:

I used hot but I took the screen off the bottom and everything looks ok, I didn't see large amounts of oil or anything by the impeller.

Maybe it just cleaned the Brewhemoth that good, LOL.

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haha! yeah, maybe!

Guys, I did a little research on the sump pump I bought and thought I should share the information I found.

It appears as though most sump pumps that are not rated for hotter temperatures (most rated for 70ish F) are filled with oil to aid in cooling the pump.
The pump I bought, flowtec, has a warning on their website which states that if the pump overheats, the oil seal could blow and cause oil to leech into the water being pumped.

This made me wonder if this very thing has already happened to me, and maybe you guys seeing as though we talked about oily water.

I've decided to return the flowtec pump I bought, and go with a pump actually rated for hot temperatures and able to push 50-60GPM minimum.

The pump I'm going to order up is a Liberty HT40 series, rated for 200F and moves 60GPM. They are fairly expensive @ $290, BUT this pump is good quality, good warranty, and will run within spec.

A quick video of the CIP system I hacked together for my Brewhemoth. Works very well! The only problem is that the pump head is not stainless, so I have to be sure to drain it very well after each use.

[ame]http://youtu.be/Sohr5F0zVWU[/ame]

Pump: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271092684798?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Sprayball: http://www.brewershardware.com/CIP10TC10TC40.html

That looks like it works really well! Is it still working like you thought it would? Also, what is the, "gallons per hour" on that pump? I'd like to copy what you've done here.

cscade said:

A quick video of the CIP system I hacked together for my Brewhemoth. Works very well! The only problem is that the pump head is not stainless, so I have to be sure to drain it very well after each use.

http://youtu.be/Sohr5F0zVWU

Pump: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271092684798?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Sprayball: http://www.brewershardware.com/CIP10TC10TC40.html

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It looks like you got a ridiculously great deal on that pump for $50.

It's still working great, although I've only used it a few times. It's not clear how well the pump head will hold up over time.

It should be moving around 2,400 GPH (40 GPM) in this configuration.

cscade said:

It's still working great, although I've only used it a few times. It's not clear how well the pump head will hold up over time.

It should be moving around 2,400 GPH (40 GPM) in this configuration.

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Nice. That's a $300+ pump you snagged for under $100.

Keep your eyes peeled on eBay, and they're not too hard to find. I located this one within about a week of starting to seriously look. Surplus wholesalers are a good source. Search for "centrifugal pump" for this type. If you're really lucky, you find one in stainless

So what is the benefit of using this type of pump versus a sump pump?

BVilleggiante said:

So what is the benefit of using this type of pump versus a sump pump?

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Most dirty water pumps can't handle water over 80 degrees.

Also this type of pump has a different style of seal around the drive shaft than most sump-type pumps do, so there is no chance of lubricants getting released from the pump and getting coated all over the inside fo your conical. I learned this lesson the hard way when I tried to use a sump pump from lowes to build a keg washer. All I did was ruin the keg I tested the build with, by permanently coating it inside with a greasy film.

While it stinks that the sump pump puked its bearing grease out, the keg certainly isn't ruined. anything can be cleaned off the surface of metal with the right soap or solvent. Follow up the solvent with a soap or alkaline rinse, then acid sanitize and it will be like new.

TDC detergent from National Chemical works great on grease and is designed for glassware. It is made for handwashing but I have used it CIP to clean my pump before use. Worked awesome.

The liberty HT41M sump pump I bought a couple of weeks ago works extremely well. AT 60GPM and 200F rating, it blasts the inside of my brewhemoths. Very much worth the money.

The hardest part with this setup was finding hoses capable of handling the 200F that the pump is rated for!

I have a question regarding the Brewhemoth but not the CIP system. I want to run a temp sensor and a blowoff tube off of the top of the brewhemoth. I was told I need a "t" piece to do this. Can someone please explain how I can have a blowoff tube and a sensor running in the same "t" tube? It seems like the sensor would get beer all over it. Is the "t" tube split down the middle?

BVilleggiante said:

I have a question regarding the Brewhemoth but not the CIP system. I want to run a temp sensor and a blowoff tube off of the top of the brewhemoth. I was told I need a "t" piece to do this. Can someone please explain how I can have a blowoff tube and a sensor running in the same "t" tube? It seems like the sensor would get beer all over it. Is the "t" tube split down the middle?

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It makes no sense to monitor the temperature at the top of the fermenter. If you're concerned about the beer temp you need to be monitoring in the middle (horizontally ) and probably closer to the bottom (vertically). The guys @ Brewhemoth put a 1/2" NPT port in for me so I could thread in a thermowell and stick my probe inside of that.

I would not immerse anything inside the fermenter if that is what you were thinking.

You could get a weldless bulkhead fitting and put your own well in or have a port welded into the side.

BVilleggiante said:

I have a question regarding the Brewhemoth but not the CIP system. I want to run a temp sensor and a blowoff tube off of the top of the brewhemoth. I was told I need a "t" piece to do this. Can someone please explain how I can have a blowoff tube and a sensor running in the same "t" tube? It seems like the sensor would get beer all over it. Is the "t" tube split down the middle?

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Stretch a bungee cord around the brewhemoth. Strap the probe with a piece of foam insulation covering it on the side-middle of the brewhemoth. It will be extremely accurate.

Never mind. I just figured out how to do it. They run a "t" fitting off of the top. In one of the holes in the "t" fitting you insert a 24 inch thermowell tube that your sensor sits in and is therefore protected from touching the beer. The other hole in the "t" fitting is your blowoff tube.

jcaudill said:

It makes no sense to monitor the temperature at the top of the fermenter. If you're concerned about the beer temp you need to be monitoring in the middle (horizontally ) and probably closer to the bottom (vertically). The guys @ Brewhemoth put a 1/2" NPT port in for me so I could thread in a thermowell and stick my probe inside of that.

I would not immerse anything inside the fermenter if that is what you were thinking.

You could get a weldless bulkhead fitting and put your own well in or have a port welded into the side.

Click to expand...

erikrocks said:

Stretch a bungee cord around the brewhemoth. Strap the probe with a piece of foam insulation covering it on the side-middle of the brewhemoth. It will be extremely accurate.

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I haven't tested this myself but I don't agree with this in principal. Fermentation produces convection. Generally the middle is hotter than the outsides. So to say it is extremely accurate I have to doubt. Is it within a few degrees? Probably. But that few degrees can make a big difference.

BVilleggiante said:

Never mind. I just figured out how to do it. They run a "t" fitting off of the top. In one of the holes in the "t" fitting you insert a 24 inch thermowell tube that your sensor sits in and is therefore protected from touching the beer. The other hole in the "t" fitting is your blowoff tube.

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Nice. I assume this is a closed thermowell that clamps on to a TC tee?

jcaudill said:

Nice. I assume this is a closed thermowell that clamps on to a TC tee?

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Yes it is. Just found an example of it on Brewer's Hardware's website.

Oh I gotcha the T is on it's side with the extended thermowell. That works! One thing I'll tell you is to use a bit of thermal paste in the bottom of the well to help contact. I use Brewer's Hardware wells and probes and the fittings is not very tight. The grease makes a big difference. How you get it down a 24" opening is another question!

jcaudill said:

Oh I gotcha the T is on it's side with the extended thermowell. That works! One thing I'll tell you is to use a bit of thermal paste in the bottom of the well to help contact. I use Brewer's Hardware wells and probes and the fittings is not very tight. The grease makes a big difference. How you get it down a 24" opening is another question!

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Thanks for the heads up! I'll get some of that.

Going back to the CIP systems, I'm seeing a lot of jet pumps and centrifugal pumps listed on fleabay, but I'm hearing from the vendors that they are only 'rated' to deal with 100F water (one guy told me 104F, but I suspect that he just fat-fingered the reply).

To the guys that have the pumps from ebay, what is the temperature rate of those pumps and to all, what happens if we move temperatures higher than what they are rated for?

Thanks!

DurhamBrewer

The Dayton I picked up (eBay link) is rated for 200F.

Running the pump with too-hot of liquid can cause varying issues, depending on the pump design. Bottom line is, if the manufacturer could advertise a higher rating they certainly would, so they have at least proven in their own testing that Something Bad™ happens at higher temps than the rating.