Staggered Nutrient Additions.

For my previous 2 melomels, I was following the SNA suggestions in a BYO article. I just did a 15lb, topped up to 6 gallons, with D47 batch the other day. I made a mixture 2:1 Nutrient:Energizer. I think based on what I remembered from the BYO article, I put 3/4 tsp of this mixture in on the day I made it and I just put another 3/4 now. After reading a post on BrewBoard, I see HighTest was quoted on his usage of SNA. For what I've done so far, am I feeding my must enough or should I continue to add more? HT, it looks like you do not add as much as Ken Schramm. From what I've done so far, how should I continue my SNA?

Yes, by all means continue the protocol you started. Don't "switch horses in mid stream".

The more important question is what specific nutrient & energizer are you using? They are not all created equal, and some tell you nothing about their make-up.

My protocol was designed to use Lalleman's Fermaid-K (or Red Star's Superfood), and diammonium phosphate (DAP). It adds a specific amount of YAN to the must at the fermentation stages where it is most helpful.

Are you recalling Ken's protocol from memory or a magazine article? If an article, can you provide a link to it so that I can see if it is the one I have seen. It might be a revised version...

hightest said:

Yes, by all means continue the protocol you started. Don't "switch horses in mid stream".

The more important question is what specific nutrient & energizer are you using? They are not all created equal, and some tell you nothing about their make-up.

My protocol was designed to use Lalleman's Fermaid-K (or Red Star's Superfood), and diammonium phosphate (DAP). It adds a specific amount of YAN to the must at the fermentation stages where it is most helpful.

Are you recalling Ken's protocol from memory or a magazine article? If an article, can you provide a link to it so that I can see if it is the one I have seen. It might be a revised version...

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I can't find the BYO issue, but I think it was Jul/Aug 2008. There was an article in there about making Strawberry-Banana Melomel (among a few others). The base article talked about SNA. That's what I was recalling from. I have Ken's book also, but didn't buy it until after I started doing the batches.

Yes, I use Fermaid-K and DAP. The article suggested making a 2:1 Nut/Eng mixture ratio and using it accordingly (in other words, I'm slowly forgetting, and am now mad I can't find my magazine).

I found the magazine.. quoting page 30...

"One teaspoon pf Fermaid-k and two teaspoons DAP should be adequate for a 5 gallon batch. You can mix them together for a stock blend"

"Add 3/4 teaspoon yeast energizer or nutrient mix immediately after pitching yeast. Next, add 3/4 teaspoon yeast energizer or nutrient mix 24 hours after fermentation begins. then add 3/4 teaspoon yeast energizer or nutrient mix 48 hours after fermentation begins. And finally, add 3/4 teaspoon yeast energizer/nutrient mix after 30% of sugar has been depleted."

janzik said:

I can't find the BYO issue, but I think it was Jul/Aug 2008. There was an article in there about making Strawberry-Banana Melomel ...

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I found a copy of the article by Curt Stock dated 5/22/08.

My initial reaction is that the article highlights many of the mead making "tips" I have been advocating on brewing forums for quite some time, and which have been made available on the internet in the form of my FAQs - yeast rehydration, the use of Go-Ferm, SNA, CO2 toxicity, pH management, the use of potassium carbonate, etc. Hmmm, I wonder if there might be any copyright concerns here...

The one thing I was not crazy about is the issue of adjusting the must pH to 4.0 before fermentation. While I agree monitoring it is important, I can say that it will take more than 5g of potassium carbonate to elevate some mead musts to 4.0.

Presently I'm comparing "his" SNA protocol to mine, and will offer my thoughts later in this topic. Yet, it strikes me that it is remarkably similar to the one Ken Schramm discussed in his Nov 2005 Zymurgy article. It will also check that...

hightest said:

in the form of my FAQs - yeast rehydration, the use of Go-Ferm, SNA, CO2 toxicity, pH management, the use of potassium carbonate, etc. Hmmm, I wonder if there might be any copyright concerns here...

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Ahh, the joy of the net, or perhaps it just seeped into his brain via a cosmic connection.

Well, at least some of us know where the stuff came from. And yet once again thank you!

To the OP:, the only thing I could possibly add is to add a very active, highly oxygenated yeast pitch.

Then: Monitor, adjust, feed and care for the mead in the first two days, and its great. If you have to leave and not do it, double to triple the primary fermentation time.

And from personal experience, don't mix up your chemicals and pitch the wrong one. To me all the white ones look alike, but they don't do the same thing.

I have completed my comparison of the BYO article SNA to my version. First, the similarities:

• They both use Fermaid-K & DAP
• They both add the nutrient mix in a staggered manner during the early stages of fermentation

Now the differences:

• By weight, the BYO SNA adds ~4g of Fermaid-K; my SNA adds 9.1g
• By weight, the BYO SNA adds ~7.8g of DAP; my SNA adds 9.1g of DAP
• The BYO SNA adds only 125 ppm of Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN), whereas my SNA adds 175 ppm
• The BYO SNA adds the nutrient mix in 4 equal portions; my SNA adds slightly more nutrients in the earlier (growth) phase of fermentation.

Why is FAN important? The short course is that winemakers have known for some time that FAN deficits adversely affect fermentation. To that end, they strive to ensure must FAN levels are ~300 ppm for a tyipcal 12% abv wine - required FAN levels increase with increasing must SG.

In his Nov 2005 Zymurgy article Optimizing Honey Fermentation, Ken Schramm reported the FAN levels of various types of honey, which he found to be extremely low: OB ~5ppm, Clover ~14ppm, etc. Consequently, the addition of supplemental nutrients is needed to reduce the FAN deficit - how much nutrient and when to add it is the question.

A SNA protocol is somewhat of a balancing act; adding enough nutrient to keep the fermentation healthy, not stressing the yeast, while not adding excessive amounts that might do harm by generating too much bio-heat, which might damage the yeast population.

FWIW, the BYO article SNA is, in fact, remarkable similar to the one Ken Schramm discussed in his Nov 2005 Zymurgy article. Both used a 2:1 nutrient mix ratio (DAP: Fermaid-K), and added the mix in equal amounts at 24 hour intervals. The only difference was that Ken used 3 additions, where the BYO article has 4 additions.

...also Hightest don't forget the presentation at last years AHA Conference

http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/KrisEngland_NHC.pdf

Yes, I was aware of Kris England's presentation.

While I can't say who was first to publically promote, discuss, and defend the SNA concept in mead making (although I think I know...), I consider the following four names (in no particular order) as the principal subject matter experts: Hightest, Oskaar, Ken Schramm, & Kris England.

I may be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, all of the SNA protocols derive from recommendations on the subject first published by Dr. Clayton Cone, who was employed full time by Lallemand. Clayton knows a heck of a lot more about yeast microbiology than I do. I'll defer to him in any test of expertise.

Ken

Um woah, Ken is that really you?

Yep. I'm just a guy, too.

Yeah just wasn't expecting that name haha. Great to see yet another respected mead maker join in the advice giving. I've already gained so much from the ones that are here.

I would not argue that Dr. Cone is well versed and trained in matters of fermentation, and I would be interested to know when he published his paper on the subject as it is unknown to me.

As I have mentioned on another board I began reading about the timing of yeast nutrients and nitrogen additions as they related to commercial wine making in 1998 from The Wine Lab.

After analyzing this practice, it became clear to me that it should also benefit other brewing activities such as mead & cider making; and after some testing, I developed (in 2001) my first Nutrient Addition Schedule (NAS) for mead musts, which I fine-tuned based on information I learned from Dr. Cone.

Well, I have to say, I've only done two batches of mead so far. On the first one, I followed the instructions in Ken's book, good to see him on here by the way, and it worked fine. On the latest one I used a staggered addition, based on an interview I believe he did on the Brewing Network and it worked out great. It was amazing how that addition over the first couple of days really kept the fermentation rolling. Hmm, come to think of it, I'm scheduled to crack open a bottle of mead for sampling in a couple of weeks...I can't wait!

I have The Compleat Mead Maker (© 2003...and don't rember reading much about SNA additions....I wish Ken would revise that or come out with an updated book (and I would purchase another copy).

I have been trying Kris Englands & Kurt Stocks Mead Methods (Saint Paul Homebrewers Club) in Using SNA's with Potassium Hydroxide and have had some success (albeit not as quickly done and ready for drinking as they have advertised).

I did enjoy the talks & meads they all gave and presented at the 2008 NHC in Cinci!!

dazed said:

I have The Compleat Mead Maker (© 2003...and don't rember reading much about SNA additions....I wish Ken would revise that or come out with an updated book (and I would purchase another copy).

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Nope, not much in there about SNAs. It's a great book, but definitely would be nice to have an update. However, after hearing him on the radio talking about an SNA schedule I kind of added the notes manually to my copy!

An update would be nice, but that decision is up to the publisher, and not me. I did write an article in honey fermentation that is a decent improvement. It is published in three parts on my blog at gotmead.com. It's a reasonably comprehensive look at the subject.

KenSchramm said:

An update would be nice, but that decision is up to the publisher, and not me. I did write an article in honey fermentation that is a decent improvement. It is published in three parts on my blog at gotmead.com. It's a reasonably comprehensive look at the subject.

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No worries about the update, totally understood. Like I said, I just made a few notes in the book manually. I'll have to take a look at the blog and update my copy further!

Here is an updated link to Kris England's presentation:

http://www.ahaconference.org/presentations/2008/KrisEngland_NHC.pdf

The first record I have of Clayton recommending SNA's is the Alson Kemp's notes of Clayton's presentation to the Bay Area Winemakers in March of 2002. The protocol on those notes was a 25/25/25/25% approach.

I have to agree, SNA's would be the most important change I would make if there is ever a chance at a second edition.

Ken