Is this right Re: Stout

I came across this definition of a stout in the dictionary

"a dark, sweet brew made of roasted malt and having a higher percentage of hops then porter"

I thought porter had a higher % of hops?

Classic dry stout (Guiness, et al) has a one of the highest proportions of bittering hops to gravity--a BU:GU ratio of about 1 or slightly above 1.

So if stout = dry stout, that's an accurate description. (Not sure I'd describe a dry stout as "sweet," though.)

I don't think that is necessarily correct (the original post there). Higher percentage is irrelevant really. I mean first off you have the differences of AAU which right there says something. Also I have had some pretty hoppy Porters. *shrug*. To draw a general comparison between Stout and a Porter you'd really be comparing malts and even then it gets hairy. From what I understand Stout's were originally of greater strength than Porter but that really speaks of the product in terms of alcohol. However, today most Stouts are lower in alcohol compared to many of the Porters on the market. I think in general when defining something it is best to avoid using comparisons of things that similar. Oh one more thing, Stouts are not necessarily sweet either. Interestingly enough the definition kind of screws itself up in that point because the hops themselves balance the sweetness heh.

If somebody can give me an accurate breakdown of the differences between a "stout" and a "porter," I would appreciate it. I tend to think of stouts as being dryer (excepting milk stouts), but the real difference in my mind is that stouts are roastier (with porters having a bit more malt character). I think of porters as being very smooth. But, I haven't reviewed the guidelines on these beer styles, so this is just really my gut assessment of what makes a beer one or the other. I don't really think of either in terms of hops, since neither (USUALLY) has much hop flavor or aroma - these beers are generally about the roast.

I think the most meaningful distinction between stout and porter is that a stout virtually always includes some roasted (unmalted) barley, and a porter usually does not. (Black patent is the most typical dark grain in porter--robust porter, anyway.)

It was my understanding that stouts have higher OG (read, heavier grain bill), tend to be drier and "heavier", have a more roasted or smoky taste, and are considerable darker making them essentially the heavier duty version of a porter (like the difference between a dubbel and a trippel).

TheJadedDog said:

It was my understanding that stouts have higher OG (read, heavier grain bill), tend to be drier and "heavier", have a more roasted or smoky taste, and are considerable darker making them essentially the heavier duty version of a porter (like the difference between a dubbel and a trippel).

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I think there's some historical truth to that, but I don't think it's a very accurate descritpion of the current situation. Irish dry stouts, for example, tend to be quite moderate OG beers, in the 40-45 range.

From what I have scoured, in terms of definition and clone recipes, the biggest difference seems to be twofold (IN GENERAL ).

The first is a reduced amount of Chocolate (especially) and crystal type malts in Stouts.
Secondly, a more pronounced chalkiness/dryness from the Roasted Barley and Black Patent malts.
Thirdly, most Stout (save for the Export category) tend towards less complicated grain bills.

It really irks me when something labeled a Porter tastes like what I feel leans towards a Stout. I guess in general you'll eventually have some overlap in these styles. Also, it seems to me that most good examples of Stouts that I have had, contained pretty much no aroma hoppings.

I think for all intents its just the roasted barley in the stout that makes it different.

Its confusing because stout used to be porter or porters were stout and they have the same beginnings but branched off at some point.

I like my porters to be kind of strong compared to stouts too.

BJCP comments:

Dry Stout
" The style evolved from attempts to capitalize on the success of London porters, but originally reflected a fuller, creamier, more "stout" body and strength. When a brewery offered a stout and a porter, the stout was always the stronger beer (it was originally called a "Stout Porter"). Modern versions are brewed from a lower OG and no longer reflect a higher strength than porters."

http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category13.html

This is from the brewers Bible

"...porter is a full-bodied, dark ale accentuating crystal, black, and roasted malts and medium to high hop bitterness." "Porter gave rise to an even stronger and heavier ale called stout porter which eventually was shortened to stout." "... Stout as we know it today, originated from a porter of high gravity... a full-bodied, black beer made from english or scottish malts that is low in hop flavor and aroma but high or low in hop bitterness..."

In The Classic Beer Series: Stouts by Michael Lewis:

Stouts origin: It referred to a strong Porter. Porters being a brown beer that was brewed from the entire grain butt.

Modern defintion of stout: a black beer called a stout.

The concept of beer styles also provides brewers, or more correctly marketers of beers, with a rich lode of assumptions, opinions, stereotypes, and assertions to draw upon. When selling beer, these style-words can be used to send the purchaser useful signals about the contents of the bottle, playing not to consumers' knowledge necessarily, but to their assumptions. In the real world of brewing science, however, the concept of beer styles quickly breaks down to an irrelevancy because beers with certain lables from certain regions and even certain breweries rarely fit the stereotypes the beer stylist dictates.

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I had back-to-back recipes of a basic Irish Stout and an English Porter.

Taste...similar, but the porter was a tad sweeter and creamier. It also pleased more of my friends with the slightly less bitter (no roasted barley) taste.

The stout was 4.6% and the Porter was 6.6%.

I think that porters have a little more leeway in terms of ingredients.