Sore throat

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Xavier61588

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I'm a first time brewer--I have been bottle conditioning my Dunkelweizen (from a kit) for about two weeks now. I've tried a couple, and they seem to exhibit the symptoms of immaturity (lack of head retention, etc...) I know darker beers should age a little longer, so this doesn't worry me.

However, what is worrying is that the few I've tried give me a throat ache. The bottle I tried last night caused me to have a throat ache that lasted till this morning. Now, I have seen similar threads about this, but they either (i) involved really hoppy beers or (ii) were accompanied by allergy-like symptoms.

Does anyone have an idea what this soreness could result from? I'm exceedingly worried that I'm slowly poisoning myself (from StarSan perhaps?)...
 
Not from StarSan. Are you pouring the entire bottle in the glass or are you allowing the dregs and yeast to stay in the bottle? Not real certain the beer and the sore throat may be all the related.
 
I do let the dregs stay in the bottle. I would normally guess it was just coincidence, but on two different evenings I've tried the beer, and immediately while drinking it, it seems harsh on the throat...
 
Not sure about the sore throat, but as for bottle conditioning, did you lager first? Sometimes if you lager for an extended period of time, it removes almost all the yeast when you rack to bottle and it can take a month or more to properly condition in the bottle. It will, it just takes a while.
 
I'm about to expose my ignorance here--is lagering siphoning to the secondary fermenter, because I did not do that...
 
I know you would have said something, but I'll ask anyway. So you have had a fair amount of light and dark commercial or micro-brew beers and never experienced this before? Also, the beer tastes fine otherwise, not too acidic, no traces of chemicals, etc?
Edit: Did you use tap water for the batch? Add anything other than malt, hops, yeast and water...or what came with the kit?
 
I lived in England briefly, and so I drank cask ale regularly. Stateside, I drink micro-brew beers often, but not bottle conditioned to my knowledge. It tastes a bit acidic like you say--that's why I thought maybe it was the StarSan. I thought, however, that i was putting too little in at the time, so I would be surprised if that is what it was. I just used the Brewer's Best kit, and added nothing else. I used purified water I bought at the grocery store.

Thanks for the help.
 
The easiest way to get an insight to what this is would be is to have friends (or strangers) drink it. If they experience the same sore throat than it would be the beer, and we could assume multiple things--could be a bacteria or wild yeast, could be a crappy or old kit, or may be chemicals absorbed from your brew material, etc. Who knows. In this case it would be best to brew another beer and see if it has the same effect.

Although if it does not give your friends a soar throat, we can assume it is you and that you have either an allergy or sensitivity to something in it, something most likely particular to the kit. Just an idea. It would be easier than explaining every material and condition used in brewing this batch. I'm really interested to see what is it.
 
No sore throat here.....but man oh man, does homebrew give me the gas!!!

Me too! :mug: But to be fair, so does most unfiltered commercial beer. Some of us (75% according to Charlie or Palmer, don't remember which) are just digestively sensitive to live yeast....oh well.... WORTH IT!

:ban::ban:
 
Im glad im not the only one, cause man i get crazy gas from the homebrew! The following morning when i hit the toilet is also not a pretty sight, ha! My wife always asks me " how much homebrew did you have last night" if thats all i drank, she tends to stay away from me. The mornings i have early class, by the time i get out, my guts are ready to explode from holding it all in, you cant let one of those go in class, it will clear the room! Im bursting out laughing while typing this!
 
reckon the sore throat might have something to do with it being the start of cold and flu season?

This is more than lilely the scenario. Not from your homebrew. You are creating a logical fallacy here (google the line below my name "Post hoc ergo Propter Hoc- that is the argument , "I drank my very first homebrew, I have a sorethroat, Therefore homebrew caused my sorethroat." Sorry But the one important thing to know, nothing in homebrew can cause a sorethroat, or getting sick in any way except those caused by overindulgence, and gi issues that come fromm getting used to live yeast (yeast farts and runs.)

Since nothing pathogenic can grow in beer, then nothing in homebrew can make you sick. You can't get food poisoning or anything like that. In fact beer was brewed and used in place of water just becasue it was safer usually than the water.

I wrote this awhile ago and it's been posted all through here. It was written for an old thread. But the information is something you all need to know.

Revvy said:
Ok for the sake of all the noobs on here, who are terrified that one wrong look at their fermenter and it is going to turn poisonous and kill them,

Get it straight people, no known pathogens can grow in your beer....nothing in your beer can kill you. Or make you sick!!!!!

In fact it was because water was often dangerous to drink that brewing became popular to begin with, because the brewing process killed most pathogens including e-coli

That's why the even brewed table beers, the third runnings from a partigyle session so that the children could have a drink that was safe to consume....

I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.

Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.

Engrave this in your mind, and tell your fellow homebrewing buddies to ignore idiocy like this thread....If something toxic could come from our homebrewing, it wouldn't be a legal hobby!!!!! It would be like distilling.....illegal.

Don't forget, we had to go through a hellova lot of hurdles to get it re-legalized, 40 years after prohibition was rescinded...If it weren't safe then it wouldn't be happening for us.

Also, remember, we're NOT doing anything different than the big brewers are doing...We make beer the same way, with the same processes and ingredients that the commercial and micro breweries do....only on a smaller scale. Just keep that in perspective, we're not making poison, even ACCIDENTALLY. We're making food.

Actually we are making something safer than food. As canners know, or picnickers with potato salad, sometimes FOOD can turn on you. Not so with beer, wine, cider OR mead. The were meant to be safe in times when even water was dangerous. Even an ifected beer is not pathogenic to humans...it might be nasty but usually the nasti-ness would prevent us from even bringing it to out lips to begin with. ;)


BUT people can have allergies to beer ingredients, someone could have an allergy to hops, or yeast, or the gluten in the grain, someone could be lactose in tolerant and have gastric issues from a sweet stout.

There's going to be two kinds of reactions, things like hives and respiratory, like a peanut allergy, and someone can get cramps and the runs-which is more like a lactose issue.

But they are going to be pretty immediate, the hives and resp are going to happen within minutes, if not sooner, and the GI would still more than likely happen within an hour maybe 2.

Not likely the next day....

And the thing is, if someone is allergic to most of the beer ingredients then a) then they will be allergic to all beers, even commercial, unless it is yeast, then it would be with SOME commercial beers, that are unfiltered. BUT they would also then be allergic to bread as well. Since the same yeast is used in baking.

The hardest one to figure would be a hop allergy, since except for beer, hops don't really appear in other things. BUT then also, the person would be allergic to other beers as well.

When people post asking about this, I usually caution them to look to other things in their environment rather than homebrew, since those allergies are rare and manifest with similar ingredients (like bread) or happen with commercial beers as well.
 
I still think it would be interesting to do a controlled group test, but alas! Revvy is most likely right (as he often is). Best to leave it to Occam's Razor. And here I was hoping we would discover a rare wild yeast strain that is innocuous, except for causing a sore throat. :D
 
I wouldn't give it to someone else just yet. If there is something wrong with the beer they might have an even worse reaction to it.

Just wait a week and try a bottle again. If you don't get a cold between now and then and you get a sore throat then dump the beer. If you don't get a sore throat again then :ban:

You could always bring it to some kind of lab and get it tested. Might be hard to get them to pinpoint something though.
 
I wouldn't give it to someone else just yet. If there is something wrong with the beer they might have an even worse reaction to it.

What reaction do you think they could have? There is absolutely nothing in the homebrew that is causing this reaction. It is quite frankly an idiotic premise to begin with. :rolleyes: This whole thing is nothing but then OP's ignorance and fear or what we're doing. Not from anything even remotely plausible.
 
What reaction do you think they could have? There is absolutely nothing in the homebrew that is causing this reaction. It is quite frankly an idiotic premise to begin with. :rolleyes: This whole thing is nothing but then OP's ignorance and fear or what we're doing. Not from anything even remotely plausible.

Non food grade plastic bucket leaching chemicals into the beer, botulism contamination, there could be a million things. Obviously something is giving him a sore throat and until Xavier determines it isn't the beer then he shouldn't be giving it to anyone to try.
 
Non food grade plastic bucket leaching chemicals into the beer, botulism contamination, there could be a million things. Obviously something is giving him a sore throat and until Xavier determines it isn't the beer then he shouldn't be giving it to anyone to try.

Give me a break.... :rolleyes:

He drinks his first homebrew ever. He got a sorethroat. He ignorantly blamed the homebrew for the sore throat. He made a lame connnection between the two, because he knows hardly anything about homebrewing, rather than looking at obvious causes he blamed the thing he understood the least about...Like countless other threads JUST like this...."My girlfriend got a yeast infection. She had my homebrew for the first time. Therefore the homebrew caused the yeast infection." (Despite the fact that it beer yeast and candida are two different strains.)

The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and erroneous beliefs.

Many events follow sequential patterns without being causally related. For example, you have a cold, so you drink fluids and two weeks later your cold goes away. You have a headache so you stand on your head and six hours later your headache goes away. You put acne medication on a pimple and three weeks later the pimple goes away. You perform some task exceptionally well after forgetting to bathe, so the next time you have to perform the same task you don't bathe. A solar eclipse occurs so you beat your drums to make the gods spit back the sun. The sun returns, proving to you the efficacy of your action.


More likely he slept with a fan on, or yelled at a football game or something that REALLY caused the sore throat.
 
He drink his first homebrew ever. He got a sorethroat. He ignorantly blamed the homebrew for the sore throat. He made a lame connnection between the two, because he knows hardly anything about homebrewing, rather than looking at obvious causes he blamed the thing he understood the least about...Like countless other threads JUST like this...."My girlfriend got a yeast infection. She had my homebrew for the first time. Therefore the homebrew caused the yeast infection." (Despite the fact that it beer yeast and candida are two different strains.)

I read that and heard it in the voice of Dr. House in my head :D (Hello, by the way, I'm new here :) have been lurking for 2-3 weeks)
 
Non food grade plastic bucket leaching chemicals into the beer, botulism contamination, there could be a million things. Obviously something is giving him a sore throat and until Xavier determines it isn't the beer then he shouldn't be giving it to anyone to try.

Yep - I agree - the OP should send it to someone who can professionally review everything. Please send the beer to me, along with all of your bottles and the rest of your equipment so I can test everything at home and I'll give you the results after I've consumed everything. I might have to keep all of the equipment given that is likely the source... ;)
 
If the OP is allergic to the beer then he would have a systemic reaction (hives all over the body, itching, and or anaphylactic reactions. His description of a sore throat right after drinking the beer might be a local reaction to the beer itself, may be too acidic? Does the same reaction happen with a soft drink? Or may be you really do have a the start of an infection and the beer just is irritating the throat giving you a sore throat.
 
A million different things could have happened to the beer. Of course, more or less a beer will not give you a sore throat, but if something harmful got into it and had the potential to make someone sick then Xavier owes anyone a duty of care not to let them consume something that is potentially harmful.

Better to err on the side of caution is all that I am saying.
 
Easy solution: Just bring an epinephrine shot with you to the LHBS. If the person shows signs of anaphylaxis after drinking it, just stab 'em in the heart with that bad boy.

Edit: Sorry...not being helpful.
 
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