brrman
Well-Known Member
nopants...
Haha, not if you had my dog around. He's the quicker-picker-upper.But it smells so good baked onto the driveway.
For me, fly sparging is better because it is easier, gives higher efficiency, produces more consistent results (especially with higher gravity brews), and produces better tasting beer. That doesn't mean it is right for everyone.
I'm not going to debate fly vs batch they are both fine ways of making beer. But please be so kind as to tell me how one way of rinsing grains makes "better" beer than another??
That manifold is just showering water on top of...water (or wort). A shower isn't even necessary there, the couple of inches of water above the grain prevent the grain bed from being disturbed.. Some just ladle it in with a saucepot...works fine.I use a simple manifold to shower hot water onto the mash, very similar to the manifold I use to filter the wort out of the cooler.
It depends! Just because batch sparging works better with your equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's. And just because fly-sparging works better on my equipment doesn't mean it'll work better on someone else's.
That manifold is just showering water on top of...water (or wort). A shower isn't even necessary there, the couple of inches of water above the grain prevent the grain bed from being disturbed.. Some just ladle it in with a saucepot...works fine.
But trust me on the comfort-soft waistband.
I fly sparge because that is howe my system is set up, and it is hands off. I dont have to transfer water, stir, drain... and repeat or whatever. I turn on a pump and open 3 valves, walk away, 30 mins. later is it complete. The HLT is dry, the MLT is dry and my BK is full. I mean, it is hands off.
Preach it!
Recently I've been thinking that much of reason for 'tiered' systems was fear of HSA...however HSA has been all but debunked. But I digress...The sprinkling thing is just perpetuated by the HB books, which also recommend 1-2" of water above the grain bed during the sparge... apparently they never really thought about the sprinkling then being a non issue in that case.
nopants...
Recently I've been thinking that much of reason for 'tiered' systems was fear of HSA...however HSA has been all but debunked. But I digress...
I turn on a pump and open 3 valves, walk away, 30 mins. later is it complete. The HLT is dry, the MLT is dry and my BK is full. I mean, it is hands off.
geez - you might as well just go buy commercial beer then. I kid, I kid.
I like the hands on part of batch sparging personally.
There is another thing about fly sparging - no need for a giant cooler, especially when brewing 10 gal batches.
Batch spaging is better!
To add more inane drivel I was thinking that one of the main reasons for tiered systems was so you could move the wort around from vessel to vessel without pumps and would avoid HSA because you weren't splashing it around. It's a fairly gentle transfer. But it takes work to set it up in the first place and it takes work to get all the liquor up to the top tier.How so? Your statement intrigues me.
Help a non-batcher understand...how does a mashout preserve wort profile in fly but not in batch? I assume by 'profile' you mean 'fermentability' and I agree that a mashout to some degree (imo >160 is enough...we're only trying to denature the beta-amylase right?) will 'lock-in' the fermentability even though the alpha-amylase is still working...even @ 170 F. Or is it mostly just a matter of time-spent-sparging? I'm at a rolling boil well within an hour of starting the vorlauf so in my case fly-sparging isn't that much lengthier of a process.fly sparging necessitates a mashout to cease further enzymatic activity during the lengthier process, preserving the wort profile as the brewer intended.
Help a non-batcher understand...how does a mashout preserve wort profile in fly but not in batch? I assume by 'profile' you mean 'fermentability' and I agree that a mashout to some degree (imo >160 is enough...we're only trying to denature the beta-amylase right?) will 'lock-in' the fermentability even though the alpha-amylase is still working...even @ 170 F. Or is it mostly just a matter of time-spent-sparging? I'm at a rolling boil well within an hour of starting the vorlauf so in my case fly-sparging isn't that much lengthier of a process.
Here is a pretty comprehensive run down of both sparge procedures along with some pros and cons... good read.
Batch vs Fly is as rediculous as Aluminum vs Stainless, Pellet vs Leaf, HERMS vs RIMS or Chill vs No Chill. None of them, really matter or make that big of a difference. You will probably screw something up that is simple, that would contribute more to a difference in your final product than any of these differences combined.
People like thier soap boxes... but none of the above make an appreciable difference in your beer. Do what fits your style or your system. After all, this is just a hobby.
Sparging Methods | Brewer's Friend
I'm not going to debate fly vs batch they are both fine ways of making beer. But please be so kind as to tell me how one way of rinsing grains makes "better" beer than another??
Try thinking from the other side. Is there anything that could make a beer worse? I can think of oversparging, sparging too hot, changing the conversion profile during an extended sparge etc.
I have no doubt that I could have screwed up somewhere with my batch sparge attempts, and that adversely affected the quality of the brews.
As it happened repeatedly I gave up on batch sparging, and went back to fly.
Doesn't mean that others will be affected in the same way, which I said in my original post.
-a.
Rob,
Great link! Lots of good tools and info there. Thanks.
Rob (also)
A mash out can do more than stop beta-amylase, it can increase conversion efficiency. I believe the added stir can expose starches that were not easily reached during the mash. With alpha amylase in hyper drive they get converted in the short rest. That's not a lautering efficiency increase, it's the good stuff.
As far a fermentability goes I've had better luck adjusting the grain bill than using mash temps. It may be because I use a thiner mash that makes more fermentable wort anyway.
Using both a mash out and double batch sparge may be worth 6-8 points. Is it worth the extra 20-30 minutes? I don't know I guess that depends on how much grain and time I have on hand, but what is worth it is being able to hit my predicted gravity within three points.
Kaiser said:Just to clarify my claim: It (the sparge water temp) should not affect your efficiency if all the conversion is done in the mash. But especially when mashing thick you may not convert all the starches in the mash and subsequent conversion happens during lautering. This is when you see the sparge temp affecting efficiency. The hotter the faster and more complete that conversion will be.
By heating the sparge water to 185° (or whatever it takes to get the grainbed to 168°), a batch sparger is, in effect, conducting a mashout with the sparge infusion.
Dude this thread is not about the virtues of fly or batch sparging, please re-read the op. He simply asked the difference between the two.
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