Malting Gluten Free Grains

here is a link to the article that Strave19 was talking about and other one that is quite useful.

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/contents/2006_112_1.htm
http://www.aaccnet.org/meetings/2006/abstracts/o-5.htm

I've looked at both of those. They help some but some of the things in the scientific papers just go right over my head...and I don't have the equipment or patience to do what they were doing. Good find though! Any one else had success using home malted gluten free grains in a mash lately?

Here's an interesting post I saw with some videos. I didn't have a chance watch them but I think the setup he has and his process might give some ideas on setup.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/how-i-make-all-my-own-malt-188337/

Does anyone have any idea of the ppg you an expect from GF malts?

I have just malted about 750g (1 1/2 lbs) of buckwheat and will be trying a brew with it soon, but it would be good to have an idea of the expected ppg before I start.

Otherwise how do I calculate this myself? Is it just from the gravity reading I get after the mash and sparge?

celiacsurvivor said:

Does anyone have any idea of the ppg you an expect from GF malts?

I have just malted about 750g (1 1/2 lbs) of buckwheat and will be trying a brew with it soon, but it would be good to have an idea of the expected ppg before I start.

Otherwise how do I calculate this myself? Is it just from the gravity reading I get after the mash and sparge?

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If the mash volume + Sparge Volume = Batch Size, then yes.

If not, you would need to take the measurement the same way, but then adjust it for your top off water. (ie if you measure 1.010 and you are using 3 gallons and topping off with 2, you would multiply the 10pts by 3/5 to get 6pts or 1.006.

I don't think anyone really knows the answer to the PPG question, people seem to be all over the place.

I brewed an ale with the buckwheat that I malted.
Here is my malting process;
I wrapped 1kg of buckwheat in a square of cheesecloth, tied a knot in the top and soaked in water. I have a two bucket system, the insdie bucket has lots of holes in it to let the water drain out and sits inside a bigger bucket with room at the bottom for an aquarium heater. This allows me to keep the soaking water at a constant temperature, in this case it was ~28C.

I soaked it for 2 hours then rinsed them off and changed the water, then left overnight ~7 hours. I rinsed them again and then laid them on my malting tray.
This is a three part system, the bottom part has a container of water that I put the aquarium heater in to keep the air warm and moist. The middle layer is wire mesh and I lay the grain on this. Then there is a lid with an extractor fan on it to help with drying the grain after malting.



This is the buckwheat after 3 days.



I was going to use my malting box to dry this but decided to use the oven instead. I put it into trays and put it in the oven on the lowest setting. This took several hours to completely dry.

Then I stuck it all in a pillow case, tied the top, and put it in the clothes dry on cold cycle for 3 20 min cycles to help remove the roots and shoots.

This didnt' work very well and I still had quite a few roots and shoots in the final product. I might try roasting them lightly next time to help make the roots even more brittle.

In the end I had about 750g of malted buckwheat, and it smelled and tasted great, sweet and nutty.

I ground it quite fine - not quite to a flour, then mashed with 3L of water as follows;
15 min at 35°C
15 min at 45°C
40 min at 65°C
30 min at 72°C
10 min at 78°C

This absorbed a lot of water after the 65C step and I had to add another couple of litres because it was basically a really thick porridge. I will probably mash with twice as much water next time.

Lautering and sparging was a nightmare.
I don't have a proper lauter ton so I put it all on a cheesecloth in a big sieve and let it drain through. It got stuck alot and took over 2 hours to go through. This is an image of a smaller sieve that I started with then moved to a larger one.



After that I had about 2 litres of wort at about 1016.

Here is the recipe I followed on the 7th of October.

Malted Buckwheat Ale

~2L buckwheat Wort ppg 1016
3L water
300g sorghum syrup
50g Dark Candi Syrup (SRM 82)
8g Pacifica hops (60 mins)
5g Cascade hops (12 mins)
4g Cascade hops (0 mins)
Irish moss (10 mins)

OG - 1026

This was bubbling away nicely the next morning, and has stopped bubbling now exactly a week later. I will leave it in the primary for another week or so and then bottle.

Here it is next to my Modified Amercian Brown Ale. Can't wait to taste them both.

That's what I am talking about!! At some point I was planning to make that malting box, but I don't have any room for it right now.

You are right on drying the grains though. Once I'm done malting I put them on a try lined with a towel and let a fan blow on them overnight. Then they go onto a mesh tray into the oven. The drier you get malt the easier it is to knock off the roots and shoots. Some will even fall off after the oven drying and the rest will come off in the dryer.

The mesh screen I used was perfect for getting out the dried roots and shoots since it fell straight through the mesh.

Thanks for posting this!

where did you find a diagram to make that malting box..... i think im going to do away with all extracts (except tapioca every so often) and i found a close by source for cheap grain.

waltonfeed.com

and now that its starting to cool off i'm thinking im going to have troubles with the outside drying. even though id hammock it in our green house

DirtbagHomebrew said:

where did you find a diagram to make that malting box..... i think im going to do away with all extracts (except tapioca every so often) and i found a close by source for cheap grain.

waltonfeed.com

and now that its starting to cool off i'm thinking im going to have troubles with the outside drying. even though id hammock it in our green house

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Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send you a PDF of the specs I have on a malting box.

I used twinvalley mills as my source for sorghum. Just make sure the grain is maltable and food grade.

Lcasanova said:

Just make sure the grain is maltable and food grade.

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This is the main problem I have in NZ, we can't get sorghum at all, and any millet here is treated so it won't sprout.

So far I've malted buckwheat and amaranth. The buckwheat was all good, but the amaranth was so small that it was impossible to separate the roots and shoots and it was a big sticky mess when I was drying it. I don't know how easy it will be to mash but it will probably make a nice steeping grain.

where did you find a diagram to make that malting box

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The original idea was from a guy on the aussiehomebrewer forum who owns the O'Briens GF brewery there, but I basically made a box 1m square, the bottom part is 300mm high, the middle part is 100m high, and the lid is a bit more complex but as long as there is room for air circulation and an extraction fan you can do what you want. I'll post a pic of my lid when I get home from work.

Thanks for posting this!

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No problem, I've taken so much from this forum its about time I gave a little back.

I'm in the process of malting more buckwheat to have a go with different lautering/sparging methods. I'll let you know how that goes.

celiacsurvivor said:

The original idea was from a guy on the aussiehomebrewer forum who owns the O'Briens GF brewery there, but I basically made a box 1m square, the bottom part is 300mm high, the middle part is 100m high, and the lid is a bit more complex but as long as there is room for air circulation and an extraction fan you can do what you want. I'll post a pic of my lid when I get home from work.

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That's where I got my PDF. I wonder if there is a way to post it on here without hosting it somewhere?

Here is the link to his download on the aussie forum

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11096&hl=gluten+free

celiacsurvivor said:

This is the main problem I have in NZ, we can't get sorghum at all, and any millet here is treated so it won't sprout.

So far I've malted buckwheat and amaranth. The buckwheat was all good, but the amaranth was so small that it was impossible to separate the roots and shoots and it was a big sticky mess when I was drying it. I don't know how easy it will be to mash but it will probably make a nice steeping grain.

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When I malted amaranth, I couldn't get a all of the roots off the grain using the pillow case/dryer method. I put a handful of it onto screen and rolled it around, which worked, but was way too much work.

Here's a photo of my malting gear. The aquarium heater is on top of the box, and the white thing beside it is a thermometer and humidity meter that can measure both outside and inside with an external probe - very handy for measuring the temp on top of the malting grain.

The white bucket has lots of little holes and can sit inside the black bucket with the heater underneath.

Lcasanova said:

That's where I got my PDF. I wonder if there is a way to post it on here without hosting it somewhere?

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Let me know if you want it hosted.

I'm going to attempt to make a 1lb batch of crystal 60l equivalent(sort of) from millet tonight or tomorrow night depending on time. Anyone have any last minute suggestions?

Yes- take pictures

and some info on exactly how you are going to do it please. Are you going to resoak some malted millet and then roast it?

Got home too late, and upon closer examination I don't think the millet is modified enough yet, grrrr patience is not my strength.

As for process I'm just copying it from pg 226 of the book "Radical Brewing" on how to do homemade crystal.

Essentially it's
1)rehydrate your pale malt for 24hrs
2)drain and put in cake pan about 2" deep
3)put into oven @160F(which reminds me I need to pick up an oven thermometer so I can check how accurate the oven is)
4)let stew for 2-3hrs during which time enzymes will complete conversion
5)remove malt and split into pans to make no think than 1"
6)put back in oven @200-220F turning every half hour until it is dry and crispy when bitten through(this will take some time?)
This gives you pale crystal
7)for darker raise oven to 300 and taste as you go until desired color is achieved.

There are various ways to tweak this process which will affect to end result, so there's lots of room for innovation.

I'll post what happens when it's time.


T

Has anyone in the US had success malting millet? I've only tried with Whole Foods bulk bin millet and have never had any success.

celiacsurvivor said:

Here is the recipe I followed on the 7th of October.

Malted Buckwheat Ale

~2L buckwheat Wort ppg 1016
3L water
300g sorghum syrup
50g Dark Candi Syrup (SRM 82)
8g Pacifica hops (60 mins)
5g Cascade hops (12 mins)
4g Cascade hops (0 mins)
Irish moss (10 mins)

OG - 1026

This was bubbling away nicely the next morning, and has stopped bubbling now exactly a week later. I will leave it in the primary for another week or so and then bottle.

Click to expand...

I bottled this on the 27th October, and cracked a bottle the other night.

It was good. Not great - it wouldn't win any awards, but it had a nice head, was nicely carbed and had a sort of caramel taste to it that was delicious. This is the sort of beer I want to have in the fridge for a quiet one after work.

Very pleased with this, and I'll definitley be malting more buckwheat.

Sooo I'm not sure the attempt to make crystal malt from millet worked. I still had a ton of trouble getting the millet to germinate with any sort of consistency. But I air dried it using a grain back tied inside a pillowcase in the dryer. Then rehydrated it for 24hrs and placed in the oven(should've drained it more, but I don't have a strainer that millet won't just fall through) @150-160 for about three hours. Then bumped it up to 200 for an hour then 220 for another hour then I bumped it up 10 degrees every 1/2hr until I got to 280. Then I ran out of time and had to go to bed, so I turned the oven off and left it in to continue roasting off the residual heat in the oven. It looks pretty pale still, but crumbles easily when you squeeze the individual grains. My primary concern is that fact that it doesn't taste really any sweeter than it did going into the oven(maybe a little bit) which would seem to indicate that I failed to get enough enzymatic activity to get the job done. I haven't given up, but I do need to try something different.

I may switch to Quinoa which I had much better result getting modified, or Buckwheat which modified the best and is big enough so my kitchen stuff will manipulate it much easier.

fermentedhiker said:

Sooo I'm not sure the attempt to make crystal malt from millet worked. I still had a ton of trouble getting the millet to germinate with any sort of consistency. But I air dried it using a grain back tied inside a pillowcase in the dryer. Then rehydrated it for 24hrs and placed in the oven(should've drained it more, but I don't have a strainer that millet won't just fall through) @150-160 for about three hours. Then bumped it up to 200 for an hour then 220 for another hour then I bumped it up 10 degrees every 1/2hr until I got to 280. Then I ran out of time and had to go to bed, so I turned the oven off and left it in to continue roasting off the residual heat in the oven. It looks pretty pale still, but crumbles easily when you squeeze the individual grains. My primary concern is that fact that it doesn't taste really any sweeter than it did going into the oven(maybe a little bit) which would seem to indicate that I failed to get enough enzymatic activity to get the job done. I haven't given up, but I do need to try something different.

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I'm pretty sure what happened here is due to the differences between barley and millet, primarily that millet (and most GF grains) doesn't have enough amylase enzymes to convert on its own.

• With barley if you hold the temp at 150-160 for 3 hours you're going to get an almost full conversion of long-chain sugars into short-chain sugars.
• Those short-chain sugars will then start to caramelize as the temperatures increase forming sweeter and different long-chain sugars

Since millet didn't convert then it's not going to caramelize. But with millet you run into the extra fun that if you don't bring it up past the starch conversion temp the sugars won't be as accessible. But bringing it to that temp will kill any of the (mostly) non-existent amylase enzymes.

Long story short, trying to malt and kiln GF grains is a huge PITA. No matter what you do it's going to be a challenge.

Recommendations for the future:

• Create a thick millet stew and add amylase in during your 3-hour 150-160F hold-time so that you can convert more sugars for caramelization later in the process.
• We've got to figure out a way to automate this process, because spending an entire day each time we want to kiln a batch is bordering on ridiculous.

aggieotis said:

I'm pretty sure what happened here is due to the differences between barley and millet, primarily that millet (and most GF grains) doesn't have enough amylase enzymes to convert on its own.

• With barley if you hold the temp at 150-160 for 3 hours you're going to get an almost full conversion of long-chain sugars into short-chain sugars.
• Those short-chain sugars will then start to caramelize as the temperatures increase forming sweeter and different long-chain sugars

Since millet didn't convert then it's not going to caramelize. But with millet you run into the extra fun that if you don't bring it up past the starch conversion temp the sugars won't be as accessible. But bringing it to that temp will kill any of the (mostly) non-existent amylase enzymes.

Long story short, trying to malt and kiln GF grains is a huge PITA. No matter what you do it's going to be a challenge.

Recommendations for the future:

• Create a thick millet stew and add amylase in during your 3-hour 150-160F hold-time so that you can convert more sugars for caramelization later in the process.
• We've got to figure out a way to automate this process, because spending an entire day each time we want to kiln a batch is bordering on ridiculous.

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While I would agree that I had a failure to convert, I disagree that it's because Millet doesn't contain enough enzymes. Millet actually has more diastatic power than sorghum(according to an African study I went to from some link on here somewhere) and they make 100% millet beer in Africa by malting and mashing millet by itself. That was my primary reason for choosing millet in the first place. I was hoping to find a way to use it as a substitute for pale malt as a base for doing GF mashes using it enzymatic power to make up for the lack in the other grains.

You are right, someway of automating it is necessary to for sure. Cost is another. Raw millet cost me as much per pound as buying almost any kind of specialty barley malt does, and I still have to take all the time effort and electricity to malt it afterwards.

fermentedhiker said:

While I would agree that I had a failure to convert, I disagree that it's because Millet doesn't contain enough enzymes. Millet actually has more diastatic power than sorghum(according to an African study I went to from some link on here somewhere) and they make 100% millet beer in Africa by malting and mashing millet by itself.

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I stand corrected. Not sure why it wouldn't convert for you though. Maybe you could find out more about their malting process that yields higher sugar production?

aggieotis said:

I stand corrected. Not sure why it wouldn't convert for you though. Maybe you could find out more about their malting process that yields higher sugar production?

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I have had a lot of trouble getting decent result malting it consistently and completely. I wish those scientific papers included more details about the malting procedure as that would make recreating it a lot easier. There are a lot of variables that I could've had wrong. I suspect incomplete modification in my malting process left me without enough enzymes active so it was doomed from there on out.

So if anyone has had good luck with malting millet, let me know..........please

I tried malting Millet as well. It will not. Does anyone know why?

I've had good success with (MAKE SURE IT'S HULLED!) red millet (About $15 for a 50 lb. bag from feed & grain store), very inexpensive. It is modeled after a Kenyan Beer, so I call it Obama Beer. It's pretty dark and as long as you use a lot of hops, has a pretty good smack. I also add ginger, osha, some lemon peel and juniper berry for my arthritis.
When you drink this beer in the evening, your joints will feel good and warm.
The trick is in getting about 7 cups or more of millet seed in a bucket, soak overnight, then twice daily soak and rinse and cover until they start to sprout. I'm experimenting with letting them sprout quite long. Then, lay down aluminum foil over your oven inserts, enough so that you can break up the sprouted clump into small even pieces. Roast as you will from 100 deegrees to 350, until all has turned dark brown. I like quite a bit of this in a large pan, and boil for at least an hour, each batch, until you get 5 gal. worth of liquid. Add your hops, I like Warrior and Nottingham yeast, and other things appropriately. 5 cups of sugar seems to be good enough for a 5% alcohol expectation, and you can adjust flavoring as you go.
The rest is the old fermentation, bottling thing.

By the way, the sprouted millet is quite tasty on it's own, good for a salad or the like.
The millet hulls contain harmful substances, so be sure to used HULLED millet. Keep the sprouting bucket covered, and it takes 3 to 4 days to get a thick carpet of it.
There's the flavor, anyway, and it's better than sorghum nor tapioca, if you ask me. The more, the darker, the more flavor. Tastes almost like chocolate in a way.
At least ONE thing Obama can be credited favorably for.

BTW, I just use my hydrometer to figure out how much sugar to add without going sweet. I'm drinking my newest batch as I speak. Nice on ice, really.
While there may not be much sugar in its starch, table sugar, boiled works for me!

rickahyatt said:

I've had good success with (MAKE SURE IT'S HULLED!) red millet (About $15 for a 50 lb. bag from feed & grain store), very inexpensive. It is modeled after a Kenyan Beer, so I call it Obama Beer. It's pretty dark and as long as you use a lot of hops, has a pretty good smack. I also add ginger, osha, some lemon peel and juniper berry for my arthritis.
When you drink this beer in the evening, your joints will feel good and warm.
The trick is in getting about 7 cups or more of millet seed in a bucket, soak overnight, then twice daily soak and rinse and cover until they start to sprout. I'm experimenting with letting them sprout quite long. Then, lay down aluminum foil over your oven inserts, enough so that you can break up the sprouted clump into small even pieces. Roast as you will from 100 deegrees to 350, until all has turned dark brown. I like quite a bit of this in a large pan, and boil for at least an hour, each batch, until you get 5 gal. worth of liquid. Add your hops, I like Warrior and Nottingham yeast, and other things appropriately. 5 cups of sugar seems to be good enough for a 5% alcohol expectation, and you can adjust flavoring as you go.
The rest is the old fermentation, bottling thing.

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I didn't know that you could sprout Hulled Mill as I have tried with NO success. What are the harmful substances in the UN Hulled Millet?

I didn't know that you could sprout Hulled Mill as I have tried with NO success. What are the harmful substances in the UN Hulled Millet?

rickahyatt said:

I've had good success with (MAKE SURE IT'S HULLED!) red millet (About $15 for a 50 lb. bag from feed & grain store), very inexpensive. It is modeled after a Kenyan Beer, so I call it Obama Beer. It's pretty dark and as long as you use a lot of hops, has a pretty good smack. I also add ginger, osha, some lemon peel and juniper berry for my arthritis.
When you drink this beer in the evening, your joints will feel good and warm.
The trick is in getting about 7 cups or more of millet seed in a bucket, soak overnight, then twice daily soak and rinse and cover until they start to sprout. I'm experimenting with letting them sprout quite long. Then, lay down aluminum foil over your oven inserts, enough so that you can break up the sprouted clump into small even pieces. Roast as you will from 100 deegrees to 350, until all has turned dark brown. I like quite a bit of this in a large pan, and boil for at least an hour, each batch, until you get 5 gal. worth of liquid. Add your hops, I like Warrior and Nottingham yeast, and other things appropriately. 5 cups of sugar seems to be good enough for a 5% alcohol expectation, and you can adjust flavoring as you go.
The rest is the old fermentation, bottling thing.

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thanks for the info, I'll definitely be checking the local feed store to see what they have for millet. If you could(maybe in it's own thread) provide the recipe and process in detail as you brew, that would be much appreciated

btw I tracked down the pdf about tests done with millet(notice it's a source of b-amylase.

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/papers/2004/G-2004-1303-247.pdf

With home malting millet...maybe I am missing something but I have tried 3 different grain sources and I am growing mold.
Process is as follows:
2 hour soak, 2 hours dry in strainer, 2 hours soak, leave in pile on paper towel/cookie sheet overnight, spread out on new paper towel/cookie sheet to germinate.
It is this step that I am seeing red mold and some gray on a few pieces of grain(clumping with others). 90% of the grain malts very nicely but I am afraid to use it. Last batch with millet resulted in gushers.
Have not had any infection/mold problem with buckwheat malting.
Any sterilizing methods or tips?

Buckwheats said:

With home malting millet...maybe I am missing something but I have tried 3 different grain sources and I am growing mold.
Process is as follows:
2 hour soak, 2 hours dry in strainer, 2 hours soak, leave in pile on paper towel/cookie sheet overnight, spread out on new paper towel/cookie sheet to germinate.
It is this step that I am seeing red mold and some gray on a few pieces of grain(clumping with others). 90% of the grain malts very nicely but I am afraid to use it. Last batch with millet resulted in gushers.
Have not had any infection/mold problem with buckwheat malting.
Any sterilizing methods or tips?

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I haven't seen red/gray mold in my attempts, but unless I rinse it a MINIMUM of twice a day I get the white fuzzy mold.

I remember reading that sometimes it isn't a bad idea to rinse with a very very mild bleach solution. 1 teaspoon/gallon mild.

After throwing out all 5lbs Im going to start over with some new millet from a new distributor. Thinking back all my grain was sitting together and the whole foods bulk bin supply was extra moldy in general within 24 hours of water exposure. I will run a small test batch with the new supply and if I get mold Ill try the bleach suggestion... Millet seems very tempermental compared to buckwheat.

With the mold only thing I can think of is rinsing more. Can you cover the malting process at all. And all else fails scoop the large chunks of mold and remember that we will be boiling this for 60 min at least and as far as I know nothing pathogenic can survive in alcohol environments either.

I rinse my grain A LOT to avoid mold. I malt my grain in 5 gallon paint strainers, so it's just a matter of carring the grain over to the sink and running water over it. You also have to keep the temperature cool and aerate the grain. Again, I find the straining bags are an advantage here because I can pick the bag up, roll it over a few times and not make a mess.

I tried using lye to control mold, but I couldn't get that batch to malt and I haven't tried agian. I think it's worth using if I can get a system worked out.

There actually is a health risk with mold on grains.
"Finally, there is one possible health and safety issue associated with malting your own grain. If your malting grain is infected with Fusarium mold, it will produce beer that may be unhealthy to drink. Fortunately, affected beer will also gush when opened, so you will know if you need to discard it. If you buy your grain, rather than grow it yourself, ask if it has been tested for Fusarium." http://***********/stories/techniqu...rain-brewing/1113-malting-your-own-techniques

Interesting to know beware the feresium