Super easy simple wine making Questions from a complete n00b.

First off let me just say that my GF and I are totally not making wine to satisfy our sophisticated palates.

We pretty much are doing it for fun and to use as cheap Holiday gifts Being poor college students made this both fun and beneficial.

I bought my GF a simple wine making kit and all the chemicals suggested by the local brew store last x-mas along with making her a 36 bottle wine rack which turned out pretty damn nice for my first attempt at wood working.

We have had a batch of Welch’s going in the primary fermenter for 5 days now. 6 gallons in all. With 5 lbs of sugar and a packet of bread yeast. I know that bread yeast isn’t the best choice but we didn’t get any instructions with the kit so I went off of instinct . I made sure everything was sterile with supplied chemicals and stirred the sugar into a gallon of boiling water and added that to the juice, let it sit for 4 days and then added the yeast with the air lock. After yeast colonies were visible on the surface we racked the juice into the glass carboy and it has had the airlock bubbling ever since.

Now on to the questions.

1. Does the glass carboy need to be covered or in a temp sensitive place?

2. How do I know when the fermentation has been finished? I didn’t do any readings when I started the batch out of ignorance. Can I still test it now to check for a favorable reading which would signify it’s time to bottle?

3. Do I need to add 1 crushed up campden tablet per gallon to the juice before bottling?

4. Should my juice be a dark purple color or should it clear up? I have read on here a few different people stating different things.

5. How much air should there be between the juice level and the rubber airlock cork? Do I need to purge the O2 with CO2 if I have about an inch of space?

Heres a pic of the current set-up, We dont have a basement or anything in the tiny apartment so the corner of the dining room will have to do. I vented the yeasty smelling yeasty gasses to the window, is that too weird? Im super paranoid about the airlock leaking so I figured I would beef it up with some baggies and rubber bands. Dont mind the date, I cant figure out how to change it on the camera.





Thanks guys!

You made me LOL at that jerry-rigged airlock venting. Thanks for the pictures!

First, relax- it isn't brain science, or rocket surgery. If you two are in college, you have way more intelligence that this hobby requires. So, you've done great so far. If you want, take a look at my Welch's recipe, and see if it's similar to what you've done. Keep in mind that wine yeast is like $.79/pack which is good for up to 6 gallons of wine, so you may want to go that route next time. It'll give you better tasting results.

Ok, on to the questions!

GooBrew said:

1. Does the glass carboy need to be covered or in a temp sensitive place?

Yes. Cover it with a blanket or towel- to keep the temperature steady and fairly warm, and to protect it from light
2. How do I know when the fermentation has been finished? I didn’t do any readings when I started the batch out of ignorance. Can I still test it now to check for a favorable reading which would signify it’s time to bottle?
Yes- go ahead and use the hydrometer. When fermentation is done, it'll be under 1.000 (probably .994 or so) and not change after a week.

3. Do I need to add 1 crushed up campden tablet per gallon to the juice before bottling?
You don't have to, but it's a good idea to help preserve it. If your friends will be drinking it within a month or so, though, don't bother. If you do, crush the tablet, and dissolve it in some boiling water (like 1/4 cup) so that it's dissolved well.

4. Should my juice be a dark purple color or should it clear up? I have read on here a few different people stating different things.
If you used purple juice, the wine will be purple. If you used white grape juice, it'll be white. It'll clear up a bit, though- being more transparent, but still purple.

5. How much air should there be between the juice level and the rubber airlock cork? Do I need to purge the O2 with CO2 if I have about an inch of space?
It should be fine if you're above the neck of the carboy, where the contact with o2 would be minimized.
Heres a pic of the current set-up, We dont have a basement or anything in the tiny apartment so the corner of the dining room will have to do. I vented the yeasty smelling yeasty gasses to the window, is that too weird? Im super paranoid about the airlock leaking so I figured I would beef it up with some baggies and rubber bands. Dont mind the date, I cant figure out how to change it on the camera.
Yeah, kinda weird. But ok. I'd pull all that stuff out though, and just use an airlock. If it smells bad, then you're doing something wrong.


Thanks guys!

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Thank you sir I think lol.

So once I have my proper reading on the hydrometer dont I have to stop the yeasts before bottling? I dont want to give away ticking time bombs for X-mas.......... To all my friends at least.

Yea I kida figured about using the proper yeast. I just didnt know there was a difference. I have a batch of the apple juice wine I started yesterday in the bucket now, Ill have to run to the brew store for a second carboy and wine yeast tomorrow.

There isnt a foul smell, just a pungent sweet yeast smell. Like fresh bread. Is that bad? I rigged up that hose to keep the dog from snouting the hell out of the air lock for 4 months.

Do you think I did any damage to the final ABV by not using the proper yeast? I used 5 gallons of welchs juice jugs on sale at wal-mart at $3 a gallon. No sorbate.

PS. Im a microbio major. I tried consulting my notes but couldnt answer all of my questions lol. I could lecture about fermantation and NADPH transfer all day but that doesnt really seem to matter much now.

PPS. We used your welchs recipe, but with the apple juice batch.

GooBrew said:

Thank you sir I think lol.

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Well, no, you think wrong on that one!

If you're already added yeast, that will probably overpower any other added yeast, so it'll be too late by tomorrow. Don't sweat it- just buy it for next time. I have about 10 packages in my fridge- it keeps well, and I can make wine whenever the mood (or fruit) strikes.
The bready smell is not bad- but probably from the bread yeast. I just wonder, though, how you will keep it from getting contaminated. An airlock is a one way valve, but if it's outside, then you don't have your one-way valve. At least stick the "free" end in a pitcher of water/sanitizer mix, so you still have an airlock, and not an open freeway for bugs to your wine. At this point, it's probably off-gassing so much it's not a concern, and with it being winter, it's probably still not much of a concern. But there are still stray wild yeast, molds, bugs, etc, around so you want to at least rig some sort of airlock.

Yooper, I took it to mean that he has a baggy over the usual air lock. Looks like that in the pic.

My limited home brew experience includes yeastie smell/tastes that goes away with some aging. Your Welches may not be drinkable for Christmas. Don't be afraid to taste it all the qway along- right now it is harmless yeasty grape juice, later it may taste more like grape beer, what with the yeast. Then give it a few weeks, might be onto a new taste? "I thought Fleishman's was German, not Welch"

psssst GooooB.
Yooper's one of yours. Not a sir.....

casebrew said:

Yooper, I took it to mean that he has a baggy over the usual air lock. Looks like that in the pic.

My limited home brew experience includes yeastie smell/tastes that goes away with some aging. Your Welches may not be drinkable for Christmas. Don't be afraid to taste it all the qway along- right now it is harmless yeasty grape juice, later it may taste more like grape beer, what with the yeast. Then give it a few weeks, might be onto a new taste? "I thought Fleishman's was German, not Welch"

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Correct, my dog chewed up the rubber carboy topper before I had a chance to fit it on so I had to make a last minute run to the hardware store and they didnt have any rubber corks, only cork corks. So I drilled a hole through it and fitted the airlock through that and then used the baggies to seal the cork which was far from air-tight. Then my dog kept snouting all over the air-lock because of the smell so I ran that hose outside to stop the smell.

I did taste a little bit when I racked the first time and its def. not grape juice anymore lol. Has a bit of alc. taste to it at the end so I have some fermentation going on.

Do I want to stop my fermentation when I reach a certain alc. % or when my air lock stops bubbling? I understand all of the microbio behind whats going on I just dont know whats best for the taste/ al. content. Do I want to let my wine reach the critical 1,000,000 active yeast cells per mil before the batch starts to go into the death stage or do I want to stop the yeast growth before that?

Am I looking too deep into this?

petes said:

psssst GooooB.
Yooper's one of yours. Not a sir.....

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True, but anyone who has over 11,000 posts in a home brew forum gets the title bestowed upon them from me :rockin:

GooBrew said:

True, but anyone who has over 11,000 posts in a home brew forum gets the title bestowed upon them from me :rockin:

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Yep Yoop is the man... erm well she's not a man but in the sense of "she's cool" ya know.

Also I think of her as the resident expert on wine

Opppps my bad, sorry Yoop. Now I feel like an ass lol.

It's OK gooB, she gets that all the time. Now don't do it again or she'll bring back the BrewMistress avatar. Or... hmm.....

You can't reliably stop the fermentation, nor do you want to. Airlock activity isn't a reliable way of knowing when the ferment is done either, only your hydrometer can tell you for sure.

You're looking too deep into this (and welcome to the obsession) Yeast will replicate at first during the aerobic cycle, then when they're feeding and farting CO2 and peeing alcohol that's when they generally stop growth and gorge on sugar instead.

EvilTOJ said:

then when they're feeding and farting CO2 and peeing alcohol that's when they generally stop growth and gorge on sugar instead.

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Much like we brewers do after a good weekend brew day.

To stop or ensure no further fermentation and to protect your wine use Potasium Sorbate and crushed Campden Tablets (1 per gallon). Not certain about the amount on the sorbate, but the packet should have recommended dosage on it.

Allow your wine to clear as much as possible and if you can, stir the dickens out of it to drive off excess CO2. Use a drill mounted paddle or even a vacuum pump if you can get your hands on one.

The bread yeast will produce alcohol and your wine, but as Yooper suggests, make the step up to better yeast. Lalvin or Red Star are good brands for most wines. There are many variants so do some research if you can.

Replace you bung with a rubber on with a pre-drilled hole. Also, set your carboy up on a table or counter to keep the dog from slurping your wine. Cover your carboy with the box it came in if you still have it. Just cut out a small opening in the bottom and place it over the carboy so the airlock protrudes. You can even cut a small door in the box side so you can view your wine from time to time.

Your on your way to a new obsession with wine making. I have made over 35 different wines in a little over two years. It consume you after awhile.

Good Luck.

Salute!

Wow thanks for all the tips guys & gals.

I just tested the SG and right now we're at 1.200 Still a long way off, it tastes extremely carbonated but its starting to smell like wine. I guess thats a good start. I found a good rubber stopper but it seems to just pop out once I cram it in the top of the carboy.

On a side note, I left a batch of Apfelwein sit too long exposed to O2, only about 4 days and there is zero yeast or anything on the surface of the brew. No bubbles come out of the air lock fitted on it. But from what I just read that doesnt mean much of anything. I guess Ill go test the SG now and see if theres anything going on.

I think I am looking into it too much lol. Couldnt do it without you!

Think over that SG reading a bit more, 1.200 is insanely high. That is insanely high for a starting gravity. Do you mean 1.020?

My hydormoter reads like so.

---1.100
---90
---80
---70
---60
---50
---40
---30
---20 <----- I was floating right here.
---1.000
---90
---80
---70
---60
---50
---40
---30
---20

Maybe I read it wrong? IDK, It didnt come with any directions. I figured that it was wrong. I think its really 1.020 but wouldnt the scale read like this:

---1.100
---090
---080
---070
---060
---050
---040
---030
---020
---1.000
---090
---080
---070
---060
---050
---040
---030
---020

Yeah, you'd think the scale would be easier to read, but it's not. 20 is 1.020. That's pretty good- it means that your fermentation is plugging along just fine.

As someone else (I think ETJ) said, it's tough to stop a fermentation once it's going. Oh, you could try, but it'd be like trying to stop a freight train. You can add some potassium sorbate and campden tablets, but it probably won't work very well if at all. The best thing to do is wait until it's finished. I'm not sure where it'll stop- bread yeast is less attenuative than wine yeast, but I don't know exactly what to expect. Wait until it's done. Then, wait until it clears up some. Then check the SG and wait a few days and check it again, If it's the same, it's done. You can then either bottle as is, or you can stabilize with campden and sorbate and sweeten it to taste.

I wouldn't worry about things like degassing, unless the wine is finished and ready to bottle and still slightly carbonated. If you give it enough time to finish properly, it should lose that fizziness.

(Don't worry about calling me "sir"- I've been called much worse.)

I made the same mistake with my first attempt at Apfelwein. (Forgot to buy appropriate yeast and used Fleishmans) Thus far its been bubbling the holy terror out of the airlock for close to a week now. I dont think the yeast choice will make our brews 'Bad' but more in the category of 'Could have been better'

G/L with your brew bud!
-Me

^Thanks, except my Apfelwein isnt bubbling at all. It sat in the primary for 3 or 4 days without the air lock and I put it on today and it hasnt bubbled yet.

GooBrew said:

^Thanks, except my Apfelwein isnt bubbling at all. It sat in the primary for 3 or 4 days without the air lock and I put it on today and it hasnt bubbled yet.

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It's probably about finished, then. You could check the SG if you want to know for sure.

really? It only takes 4 days in the primary without a air-lock to completely ferment?

Im at work now and Im not so sure if I can talk the gf into checking the SG without me lol.

GooBrew said:

really? It only takes 4 days in the primary without a air-lock to completely ferment?

Im at work now and Im not so sure if I can talk the gf into checking the SG without me lol.

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I've had some ferment by the time I go to move them to secondary- usually 5-7 days. I like to move them to secondary and airlock them around 1.020 or so. I miss it sometimes, though, because some are down to .990 by the time I check it on day 5!

Usually, it's not completely done in just a couple of days, but it's slowed so much that you don't see much activity.

It's also possible that it never started- that's why it's good to check the SG when it doubt. It's really the only way to know for sure!

Just got done checking my SG's,

Apfelwein was at 1.030
Concord was at 1.020 After about 2.5 weeks. Does that sound about right?

Rack to your secondary and check your S.G. (Specific Gravity) at that time. It will continue to ferment and you might actually see an increase due to aeration of the wine during transfer. I have seen no activity in my airlocks and went ahead and racked and had immediate activity in the airlock for a day or so. It won't be an overly active bubbling that you see, but it should show some signs.

Going below 1.0 S.G. will give you a semi-dry to dry wine. If you get that low, you can always sweeten your wine with a simple syrup. Be careful here, because adding additional sugar will re-activate any yeast and will start fermentation activity again, unless you use potassium sorbate (1/2 tsp per gallon) and potassium meta.

I don't know if it is accepted practise to suggest other forums for info and support, so if it is unacceptable, the remaining part of my post may be removed.

Try going to WinePress.US for additional Info.

Good Luck.

Salute!

^Thank you sir,

I racked both batches today and checked the SG's. Concord was at 1.020, Apfelwein was at 1.010. However there are no more bubbles rising from either batch. Am I ready to bottle? Or should I just let it go?

Check your gravity readings for a few days straight. If they dont fluctuate then you should be okay.
-Me