Fermenting Fridge Compressor Shot...but I have a glycol chiller

My hand me down chest freezer that I was using with a temperature controller finally went the way of the dinosaur. The compressor is shot. Initially I started looking on craigs list for a replacement, but then remembered that I bartered with a friend for one of these glycol chillers

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/glycol-pid-MMPP4301-EP.html

I have the older model with an analog thermostat.

So my questions are...Should I take this opportunity to use this for fermentation control or should I just find another chest freezer and continue in my old ways? How difficult is it to build a jacket around the sanke kegs I use for fermentation? I use two, sometimes at the same time. The specs say that I can run 75ft of line. Is there any way I can split this to jacket two sankes with maybe a shutoff valve when only one is needed? What would be a good way to incorporate heating for when I am fermenting in the winter? Is there a way to quickly disconnect the jackets to remove the sankes for cleaning? Would I need to use copper coils for the line or would vinyl glycol line work?

Can anyone point me to threads of sanke jacket builds?

Lots of questions...thanks for bearing with me.

BTB

BentTwigBrew said:

My hand me down chest freezer that I was using with a temperature controller finally went the way of the dinosaur. The compressor is shot. Initially I started looking on craigs list for a replacement, but then remembered that I bartered with a friend for one of these glycol chillers

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/glycol-pid-MMPP4301-EP.html

I have the older model with an analog thermostat.

So my questions are...Should I take this opportunity to use this for fermentation control or should I just find another chest freezer and continue in my old ways? How difficult is it to build a jacket around the sanke kegs I use for fermentation? I use two, sometimes at the same time. The specs say that I can run 75ft of line. Is there any way I can split this to jacket two sankes with maybe a shutoff valve when only one is needed? What would be a good way to incorporate heating for when I am fermenting in the winter? Is there a way to quickly disconnect the jackets to remove the sankes for cleaning? Would I need to use copper coils for the line or would vinyl glycol line work?

Can anyone point me to threads of sanke jacket builds?

Lots of questions...thanks for bearing with me.

BTB

Click to expand...

Sounds like a fun project! Have you thought about wrapping the kegs in a copper coil and running the glycol through that? Unless you are good at welding I feel like coming up with a jacket will be difficult. I suppose you could use a bucket and just recirc fulid in and out of it with the keg sitting inside it, but I'm not sure how much evap you would get.

I would probably set up a 2 stage temp controller. One to run the glycol system to cool it and another one ot turn on some sort of electric heater to warm it up. Keep it all in side the dead freezer. temp drops too low, heater kicks in, temp goes to high, chiller turns on and recirc pump turns on, be it into a big bucket with a keg in it, or to recirc all the glycol through teh copper coil wrappered around the keg. You really wont need to suck too much heat out of the kegs to maintain a temp. I think the hardest part would be setting up a good temp range so that the chiller isnt cycling on and off all the time.

HTH. Good luck man.

I do not have welding capabilities, so I was thinking along the line of copper coils around the outside of the kegs. I could also use heat tape that is used to keep pipes from freezing for winter heating. Then wrap all of this in some sort of insulation. Only trick is being able to still take the kegs out of the dead freezer for cleaning. I am sure this has been done before. I probably need to do a bit more searching.

So I've been doing the research here and I am going to attempt to use the glycol chiller to control my fermentation temps. Just going to attempt controlling one sanke fermentor at a time for now. I still have a few questions:

1) Do I need to wrap the sanke keg in copper or can I use braided vinyl like what is used in the trunk lines for draft distribution? I know the heat transfer will definitely be better with copper, but vinyl will be easier/cheaper to install and easier to remove for cleaning. Planning on using 3/8" ID vinyl or 3/8" soft copper.

2) The chiller I have says it can chill 75ft of line. Does that number include the return or or is it total? So can I run 150ft of line from input to output on the chiller or 75ft?

3)For setting up the chiller: The pump and the condensing unit are wired to the existing temp controller. The pump has a flat three pin plug (not standard) that can be disconnected. I believe if I rewire that plug for standard and connect the pump to my JC temp controller I can control the pump separately to circulate the glycol when needed for cooling. The condensing unit will think it is controlling the pump and cycle on when the glycol warms, but stay off when the glycol is at the set temp. Does this logic make sense?

4) I know SprawlMart sells "RV antifreeze" and there is also "pool antifreeze", but these are clearly not USP grade. Mircomatic sells USP for $41 per gallon!! How important is is to use USP grade? The micromatic brand stresses that it contains lubricants to improve pump life, etc. Will I be OK using the cheap stuff?

That is all for now! Man I love brewery projects Thanks for everyone's help!

-BTB

BentTwigBrew said:

1) Do I need to wrap the sanke keg in copper or can I use braided vinyl like what is used in the trunk lines for draft distribution? I know the heat transfer will definitely be better with copper, but vinyl will be easier/cheaper to install and easier to remove for cleaning. Planning on using 3/8" ID vinyl or 3/8" soft copper.

Click to expand...

vinyl has really bad heat transfer properties. You can run vinyl up to the kegs, but I would use copper around them.

BentTwigBrew said:

2) The chiller I have says it can chill 75ft of line. Does that number include the return or or is it total? So can I run 150ft of line from input to output on the chiller or 75ft?

Click to expand...

75ft total I would think. exit point o treturn point. I'm guessing thats what the pump is rated for but I owuld think it would depend on the diameter of the line as smaller diameters will casue more of a restriction. I would double check the specs on that.

BentTwigBrew said:

3)For setting up the chiller: The pump and the condensing unit are wired to the existing temp controller. The pump has a flat three pin plug (not standard) that can be disconnected. I believe if I rewire that plug for standard and connect the pump to my JC temp controller I can control the pump separately to circulate the glycol when needed for cooling. The condensing unit will think it is controlling the pump and cycle on when the glycol warms, but stay off when the glycol is at the set temp. Does this logic make sense?

Click to expand...

Without seeing it, I have no idea. Logically soudns ok tho.

BentTwigBrew said:

4) I know SprawlMart sells "RV antifreeze" and there is also "pool antifreeze", but these are clearly not USP grade. Mircomatic sells USP for $41 per gallon!! How important is is to use USP grade? The micromatic brand stresses that it contains lubricants to improve pump life, etc. Will I be OK using the cheap stuff?

Click to expand...

No experience with this. Sorry.

-So I will definitely Use copper around the kegs.

-The specs on the unit say the "taps can be mounted no more than 75ft from the unit". So to me this says I can ultimately have 150ft of 3/8" ID line. I think I will wrap the keg in 50ft of copper. When I get into a multiple keg setup, I can set a controller to only allow one or two kegs (zones) to be cooled at a time.

-Maybe tonight I can post a photo so everyone can see what I am talking about.

-Still confused on the differences. Any advice would be appreciated.

BentTwigBrew said:

-So I will definitely Use copper around the kegs.

-The specs on the unit say the "taps can be mounted no more than 75ft from the unit". So to me this says I can ultimately have 150ft of 3/8" ID line. I think I will wrap the keg in 50ft of copper. When I get into a multiple keg setup, I can set a controller to only allow one or two kegs (zones) to be cooled at a time.

-Maybe tonight I can post a photo so everyone can see what I am talking about.

-Still confused on the differences. Any advice would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

-good

-nice. I agree 150ft it is.

-Maybe when you have pics and specific question it will be easier to help. So ... cool

-idk man. Maybe check out the "ingrediants" on each one and see if there is any difference?

If I were you with that set up I'd either just buy a chill ready brewhemoth OR cut the top and have a big ass tri clamp welded on. The tri clamp would allow you to bend up a SS tubing cooler that goes in the beer like the brewhemoth. When primary is over you can cool to conditioning temps or just as easily pull it out. I can't find a pic but I know breweries use a set-up as I describe for yeast storage. Here's a pic sort of the set up I describe on sabco's site. http://www.brew-magic.com/ferm_flask.html

I'm actually planning on doing something similar with my 10 gallon corny conical that needs legs, valves and a lid.

Hmm. That sounds very interesting. I will look into this brewhemoth. Sounds a little more involved than I want to get at this point though.

Do you know anything about the differences between the cheap walmart rv glycol and the food grade stuff micromatic sells? Is it worth the $41 per gallon price??

My post is a little confusing. I mean you can take a sanke if you have one and cut the top to have a triclamp ferrule welded in the hole. Then you take one of the end caps (I would recommend at least the 4" ferrule and end cap). Then buy some SS tubing from mcmaster car. Bend the tubing attach to the end cap and you have a bad ass fermentor for like $60 in parts. Essentially the same concept as the brewhemoth but on a sanke if you already have one.

As for the glycol I think it matters in a bar when you're having glycol lines run with beer lines. In this case I don't see a spectacular need to have food grade stuff. As long as you build the system to not leak then the glycol is not going anywhere.

Wow! The brewhemoth is pretty bad ass! Very reasonably priced as well. I've always wanted to upgrade to a conical system and the chiller add on will allow me to utilize my glycol chiller. I didn't notice a thermowell for a temp probe though.

Looks like we posted at the same time.

I understand what your saying now. Wonder if there would be enough contact area if I built it to fit into an unmodified sanke.

As long as you're keeping the glycol separate from the beer there's no need for USP. Of course even USP glycol will be bad for you if you ingest it! All USP means that certain standards for purity and quality are met.

$41 for USP glycol sounds right, depending on purity. My company's vendor has it for $400 for 4L. But then again we buy 5gal containers of *water* for $100. To wash tables.

Ended up building this today. Rewired the chiller so I could control the pump separately. Wrapped the keg with 50 ft of 1/2" copper. Used compression fittings and 1/2" pipe thread fittings. Used an old ball valve and a "T" so that I can allow air into the system for draining. Going to attach hose thread fittings on the barb fittings so I can take the keg out for cleaning. Just have to wrap the braided vinyl pipes in rubber foam insulation. Got a roll of foam "sill" insulation to wrap the coils around the keg. I think this is going to work well! I even put a thermowell into the carboy cap I've been using. Here are some pics.

Oh yeah. Also just got rv antifreeze from tractor supply. Seems to be working well.

What temperature is the glycol going to run at?, looks like about 3 turns would be more than enough if the keg is insulated and glycol is at 35 degrees. Peak heat created by fermentation is only about 250 btu's/hr for 15 gallon 1/2 barrel size fermenter.

Not sure what temp it is running at. Thermostat is analog and I didn't measure the temp today. Have it at the lowest setting. If that much copper ends up being overkill I can cut it for use with another sanke, which I plan on doing eventually.

By lowest I mean warmest setting.

BentTwigBrew said:

Ended up building this today. Rewired the chiller so I could control the pump separately.

Click to expand...

These chillers are designed with continuous running pumps, cycling the pump too many times per hour may overheat the motor (inrush currents) and tripping the temp switch if installed.
Check the motor spec sheet it should tell you if the motor is rated for frequent starts.
My chiller pump runs 24/7 and solenoid valves control the water flow to each fermentor.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

I contacted the manufacturer of the pump. Totten pumps out of the UK. This was the response I got.

============
Dear Karl,

Operating the pump as described below will not have any adverse affects on its performance or reliability.

Regards,
Neil Tindle
Senior Project Designer
=======================

Obviously I described how I will be cycling the pump. So I am not too worried about this. Thanks!