Long Term Aging & Bottle-Questions

When long term again, is it best to just leave in a secondary/third. Or bottle and close it. Also plan on carbonating some of the meads/ciders I make.
Just looking for suggestions on what people think. Would it be better to leave in a secondary or toss into bottles. If you feel that putting them into bottles is better for long term aging. How long should I leave my mead or cider in the secondary to make sure all is done before bottling.

Just some background: I plan on making JAOM (but should I use bread yeast or a montrachet? Suggestions?) Also plan on making some EdWorts Apfelwein once my Mr Beer keg is done fermenting and in bottles.
Would these be fine carbonated, and which is the best things to use to carbonate the beverages without kegging.
AND

Would old liquor bottles, such as 750ml bottles and 1.75L bottles work to bottle ciders and meads in? Of course sanitizing etc. But would I be able to carbonate them in the bottles, or should i find other bottles.

Thanks a lot to anyone who helps. I am a newer brewer and new to mead/cider making, trying to get it all planned out before I get fully into it.

And: Anyone have simple meads that they would like to share? Just looking for simple meads to get started, or even wine/cider recipes that some have found great tasting. Thanks

How long is long term?

aiptasia said:

How long is long term?

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I plan on aging anywhere from 3-6 months. Possibly longer, but they will be 1 gallon batches. So I dont know once I try it and let people sample, if Ill have a lot left. If I could let it go longer than 6 months, than I will.
(I know some might not say its that long, but to a new brewer, months is a lot)

I'm fairly new to mead making (first batches are just finishing up for drinking), but I would guess most on here would say to keep aging much longer. Minimum of a year for low abv and upward of a couple years for high abv.

bulk helps to keep a uniform flavor to the batch if you do not have a tightly controlled place to store the bottles.

EndlessPurple said:

I'm fairly new to mead making (first batches are just finishing up for drinking), but I would guess most on here would say to keep aging much longer. Minimum of a year for low abv and upward of a couple years for high abv.

bulk helps to keep a uniform flavor to the batch if you do not have a tightly controlled place to store the bottles.

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Yea i get that, Im really looking for the answers to my above questions. I plan on aging for longer, but i dont want to waste time and age a mead that I wont like myself. plan on experimenting and taste testing before bottling and making another batch of it.

Also trying to figure out which yeast I should use to make the JAOM or should I just make the MAOM instead

Did the same bottled my first mead after 3 months and drank most of it. Was very drinkable from the point of view of some one who had never tyred mead so my second batch got longer in bulk but needed bottling for Christmas. Still have 4 bottles aging on from each batch i'm doing. Every one will say the longer in secondary the Better but if your liver needs punishing then some times we are forced to bottle. Just save some to see what it could have been.

Don't think spirit bottles would take the pressure of carbonation, if I were you and wanted to carbonate I would be drinking grolsh rite now, or some expensive Belgian beers with flip top bottles to reuse. And you will be Better making a lower alcohol mead and priming the bottles like beer. Looking at forced carbonation I would get the taste and technique of your flat mead making down before going out and buying all that kit/way to much effort.

I'be heard multiple times that the JAOM is fantastic just the way it is, but terrible if you use wine yeast. I have a batch going right now that smells amazing.

mooney said:

Did the same bottled my first mead after 3 months and drank most of it. Was very drinkable from the point of view of some one who had never tyred mead so my second batch got longer in bulk but needed bottling for Christmas. Still have 4 bottles aging on from each batch i'm doing. Every one will say the longer in secondary the Better but if your liver needs punishing then some times we are forced to bottle. Just save some to see what it could have been.

Don't think spirit bottles would take the pressure of carbonation, if I were you and wanted to carbonate I would be drinking grolsh rite now, or some expensive Belgian beers with flip top bottles to reuse. And you will be Better making a lower alcohol mead and priming the bottles like beer. Looking at forced carbonation I would get the taste and technique of your flat mead making down before going out and buying all that kit/way to much effort.

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So bottling to age is better than just leaving it in a secondary to age? that is one of the main things to figure out. I have fifths and half gal bottles from liquor. I guess those wouldnt matter to bottle in, but most likely not to carbonate in. Not looking for any explosive bottles.

So you let it ferment and secondary for a total of 3 months then bottled? And carbonation wise. Dont some people just prime it with sugar and bottle it?
I dont want to go out and buy kegging kits etc until I am way far along, have meads being made every week and have some extra cash at my side to purchase this.

Bluespark said:

I'be heard multiple times that the JAOM is fantastic just the way it is, but terrible if you use wine yeast. I have a batch going right now that smells amazing.

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Yea ive heard the same. Although some say it has a bad taste. But i guess the only way to find out is to do it myself. Thanks for the input

Naw bulk age in the Demi John is better, every one on here Will tell you. I just aged in bottles because I could not wait. its more consistent in bulk and you can sill play with it. I have never carbonated mead, only ever beer and cider, but it lookes hard to carbonate any mead and keep residual sweetness as all the sugar in honey is fermentable.

mooney said:

Naw bulk age in the Demi John is better, every one on here Will tell you. I just aged in bottles because I could not wait. its more consistent in bulk and you can sill play with it. I have never carbonated mead, only ever beer and cider, but it lookes hard to carbonate any mead and keep residual sweetness as all the sugar in honey is fermentable.

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ah ok cool. Ive been reading up on all of this before i even get going, so just making sure. What do you use to carbonate the cider? I am going to make apfelwein once my beer is out of my Mr Beer keg (heard it works well from some people)

I have bottle carbonated cider before without issue. You can add priming sugar to each bottle, or to the entire batch and then bottle. You will either have to calculate the amount of carbonation you want and add the specific amount of sugar, or add whatever you want and pasturize the bottles when carbonation has been achieved. Another option that I have tried is to use apple juice concentrate as priming sugar. Cider tends to lose its apple taste thru ferment. This will help bring some of it back, it will also backsweeten the wine. I added the concentrate and bottled half in wine bottles that I immediately pasturized, and the other half went into grolsch bottles that I pasturized later when carbonated. I can tell you from experience that the apple flavor will come back if you can wait. My last cider had the apple flavor come back at 9 months, and at 14 months, it's a new cider altogether. I have about 2 wine bottles and 4 grolsch bottles left of a 5 gallon batch. Good luck and have fun.

StevenM said:

I have bottle carbonated cider before without issue. You can add priming sugar to each bottle, or to the entire batch and then bottle. You will either have to calculate the amount of carbonation you want and add the specific amount of sugar, or add whatever you want and pasturize the bottles when carbonation has been achieved. Another option that I have tried is to use apple juice concentrate as priming sugar. Cider tends to lose its apple taste thru ferment. This will help bring some of it back, it will also backsweeten the wine. I added the concentrate and bottled half in wine bottles that I immediately pasturized, and the other half went into grolsch bottles that I pasturized later when carbonated. I can tell you from experience that the apple flavor will come back if you can wait. My last cider had the apple flavor come back at 9 months, and at 14 months, it's a new cider altogether. I have about 2 wine bottles and 4 grolsch bottles left of a 5 gallon batch. Good luck and have fun.

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Thanks. I will have to try the apple juice concentrate to carbonate it. I plan on making a 1 gallon batch just to get started and move my way up as I get more stuff to homebrew. On top of all this. Should i always pasteurize my ciders/meads?
Would soda bottles work to carbonate in? They are normally used to withstand carbonation, so priming sugar + cider in the bottle and it will carbonate over time. (Or apple juice concentrate)

I have no idea how much carbonation I will want, so I guess i will just add some sugar to the bottles and let it go and test smaller bottles as I can. (I will get some 12oz coke bottles if I need to, just to test it out) How much sugar should I start with? (most likely white table sugar)
OR
How much apple juice concentrate should I use(1 gallon batch of cider)? I look forward to trying your method and putting in the concentrate to carbonate and sweeten. Most likely will split it into two and only carbonate half of my batch just to try it out. (Will pasteurize half of it once done adding concentrate)

The old guy at the home brew shop here says a t spoon of sugar in each 500ml bottle, think my t spoons are not quite the 5g a spoon is ment to be. But that gave me a decent fizz. I never pasteurised cider but my cider always tasted of death so don't take advice from me. I always blamed it on all the crab apples I used but they were the ones closest to the ground for scrumping. For mead you could prime with honey but its going to be a bit messy, the problem as well with priming some thing like mead is getting sediment in the bottles, when you have spent so long watching it age and clear.

I personally bulk age just about everything for one year, and a minimum of three months in bottle after that. The higher the ACV the longer I age, beyond one year in carboy. Plus, bulk aging allows for proper clearing and degassing, assuming you are racking appropriately. Then, some meads take YEARS to actually finish fermenting and clearing, believe it or not.

As far as making your JMAO, follow the recipe as written, it is a right of passage so to speak. You can always make a batch right next to it using yeast of choice.

As far as bottles for carbonated beverages, only use bottles appropriate for that style, you typically want a bottle that can handle a pressure of 90psi. People use beer bottles, grolsh style, champagne bottles...and you can use the PET soda bottles, also know others who use the old style, tall glass Coke bottles.
Just remember not to use sorbate in anything you plan to carbonate naturally. You will come across loads of tips and techniques. Some use corn syrup, granulated sugar, DME, honey, carbonation tablets--you will find your way. And then if you desire a sweet carbonated wine/mead you usually have to rely on an unfermentable sugar for that component.
Here are a few souces for carbonating: http://www.stormthecastle.com/mead/bottling-mead-tips.htm

And another, good overview and talks about pressures, etc.: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/sparkling.asp

You might want to think about trying this. I did it for my first cider and it worked perfectly.

I save a 20oz softdrink bottle. One of those plastic screw cap jobs (Diet Dr. Pepper to be precise). I filled it about halfway when I started my bottling. then bottled the rest of the cider in 12oz brown glass bottles. Kept them all in the same location so temp would not be a factor.

Every morning I would give the plastic bottle a squeeze. When I could just feel resistance, about 2 days, I opened it and tasted to see if was where I wanted it. Nope, left it for about another 2 days. This time is took a lot to squeeze so I opened, tasted. Perfect for what I was wanting. Took the glass bottles and then carefully pasteurized.

All but one bottle were perfect for me and the family. I think that one didn't get a good seal on the cap 'cause it was a bit flat. But it worked out great otherwise.

Hope that Helps.

Bill W

Thanks for all the tips. Once im into the carbonating etc stage. I will be sure to reflect on these answers and let you know what I did. (will share m information if it goes well)
Anyone make JQGM (joes quick grape mead)? Not many steps listed on it, So i was looking for some input on how to prepare this. Here is the thread it is based out of
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-quick-grape-mead-57190/