Whats the best brew school to go pro from

I am currently student at Cal Poly Pomona(the Collins college to be precise). I haven't been taking classes in the sciences, but am more than willing to go through a little more background schooling before going to a brewing school. Whats the best place to go after I am done with my bachelors in Hospitality Management? So far I am looking at UC Davis, and another program that one of the Dale Bros Owners graduated from.

As well the schools have different programs offered. What would be the best program at the school? I am willing to move to a new location, but would prefer to do mostly online course work.

Paying for more education just in the hopes of scoring a job emptying mash-tuns at a brewery for almost zero money is silly.

Leverage your hospitality management schooling to maneuver your way into a brewing career sounds like a much smarter and cheaper option at this point.

Pick up last month's BYO magazine. They talk about different schools and the students. They say a lot of them quit because it's not as "glamorous" as they expected. It's just hard manual labor.

I like to get home schooled in the process of brewing. I think thats the best way to learn.

A am all over the forums here learning everything I can. My plan is do what I love, and make a living doing it. If brewing only stays a hobby I will be happy with that. Nothing would make me happier than owning/running a brewpub(s). It looks like Siebel Institue has online course. I don't know if they are worth a damn, but there is a hell of lot of stuff to large batch brewing that doesn't apply to small brews due to things I don't understand or even know of yet.

If you are going to enroll, I advise you to enroll now. There is a wait list for Siebel. Don't know about the others.

I kind of agree with Broadbill. You can even get a job working at a brewpub doing anything, slowly work your way into the brewery. Might even be quicker than attending brew school.

There's an "invisible ceiling" in many breweries, as well as the winemaking industry. You will be limited by your education at some point or another. At the very minimum, you will need to study biology and chemistry. The ideal brewmaster candidate has a background in physical sciences and a knowledge of engineering principles.

You don't always need a Brewmaster education, but it is very likely that you will be passed down the line by someone who does have the certification. I've seen this first-hand at both a winery and a brewery. Most recently, a guy I know with 15 years in the industry and an endless knowledge of winemaking and a degree in history was "leapfrogged" by someone with only 3 years experience and an a science-based education.

Working at a brewery today is very different than 10 years ago. More and more people want to participate, and competition is growing.

broadbill said:

Paying for more education just in the hopes of scoring a job emptying mash-tuns at a brewery for almost zero money is silly.

Leverage your hospitality management schooling to maneuver your way into a brewing career sounds like a much smarter and cheaper option at this point.

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broadbill said:

Paying for more education just in the hopes of scoring a job emptying mash-tuns at a brewery for almost zero money is silly.

Leverage your hospitality management schooling to maneuver your way into a brewing career sounds like a much smarter and cheaper option at this point.

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Cold, hard truth right there.

I've recently started working in a brewery, it's hard work; very physical. I love it though, the atmosphere is really good.

I've done chemistry at school which helps as we've got a lot of lab equipment.... in our lab. But other than that it's mostly on the job training and walking into a brewers position somewhere half decent without experience just doesn't happen.

Weihenstephan. Period.

M_C

UC Davis

If you look at brewery's like Dog Fish Head, Sam the founder never went school for brewing. He opened his brew pub making his beer on a 10 gallon AG set up. There are many people who have very successful businesses who never go to college. I have a cousin who makes custom kitchens. He started off making plant stands in his garage. He is now a millionaire and he never took on college class. If you want to open a brew pub then go for it you never know what it may lead to.

Here's that article from BYO Magazine that the other guy was talking about:
http://byo.com/component/resource/article/2475-brew-u-getting-a-serious-brewing-education

I saved the article for a later time so thank you. I agree with everybody here by the way. I believe hard work and dedication is the biggest factor in running a successful business. I also believe that an education that gives me a leg up might be the factor in me working for someone else. I do plan on owning a brewpub/ brewery one day; hopefully sooner rather than later. So a degree won't help me beat out someone else for a job. You better believe I am going to hire someone when I am ready who has paid to gain the knowledge, because he/she has shown the financial commitment to the craft.

I think the thing about it is that there are so many brewpubs out there with generally unremarkable offerings that make a killing because the whole experience of the venue sells it.

I also know of places with great beer where the food in the venue is less than stellar. In Waltham, MA there's a place called Watch City that has beer I enjoy quite alot but I'd much rather go there for a few beers and then head next door to the fantastic BBQ place or to at least three other places withing walking distance to go get a meal. And often times I even find myself back at Watch City after the meal for another beer.

My advice is to get an education not specifically in brewing but in a science that you can apply to the brewing/distilling industry. I am a biotech major concentrating in food safety and quality assurance and I will graduate in May. I've been working with a local microbrewery developing a QA program for microbiological screening, yeast counting and those types of things. What I would do is get a science degree, like food science, then go to a brewing school if you want formal training. The other option would be to just run with the science degree and try to work your way into a brewery QA lab. You can then possibly work your way into brewing if that's what you really want to do in conjunction with lab work. The beauty of the lab work is it's not for everyone so some guys refuse to do it and would rather pay someone trained in that aspect. I personally love lab work and I go and work in my school lab for fun sometimes.

I think just scratching the surface with bare science classes is a place to start but to be truly attractive you'd need indepth knowledge to solve problems and or improve consistency. Classes like organic chemistry (which blows), biochemistry, molecular biology, and a good understanding of cell biology will go a long way. I cannot stress enough how helpful microbiology would be for work in a brewery. Microscope skills are indispensable. I would actually like to take more advanced microbiology classes after I graduate since I have only had one basic microbiology class.

It's been my experience that it's not what you get a degree in as much as it is what you teach yourself and what you can demonstrate. I ended up on my path after transferring from a cardiovascular program to my current program due to my interest in food and beer. If I end up furthering my formal education the next step I'd like to take is Heriot Watt to get a MSc in Brewing and Distilling. That way I have my BS to lean back on if I can't get a good job in the brewing world.

smokinghole said:

My advice is to get an education not specifically in brewing but in a science that you can apply to the brewing/distilling industry. I am a biotech major concentrating in food safety and quality assurance and I will graduate in May. I've been working with a local microbrewery developing a QA program for microbiological screening, yeast counting and those types of things. What I would do is get a science degree, like food science, then go to a brewing school if you want formal training. The other option would be to just run with the science degree and try to work your way into a brewery QA lab. You can then possibly work your way into brewing if that's what you really want to do in conjunction with lab work. The beauty of the lab work is it's not for everyone so some guys refuse to do it and would rather pay someone trained in that aspect. I personally love lab work and I go and work in my school lab for fun sometimes.

I think just scratching the surface with bare science classes is a place to start but to be truly attractive you'd need indepth knowledge to solve problems and or improve consistency. Classes like organic chemistry (which blows), biochemistry, molecular biology, and a good understanding of cell biology will go a long way. I cannot stress enough how helpful microbiology would be for work in a brewery. Microscope skills are indispensable. I would actually like to take more advanced microbiology classes after I graduate since I have only had one basic microbiology class.

It's been my experience that it's not what you get a degree in as much as it is what you teach yourself and what you can demonstrate. I ended up on my path after transferring from a cardiovascular program to my current program due to my interest in food and beer. If I end up furthering my formal education the next step I'd like to take is Heriot Watt to get a MSc in Brewing and Distilling. That way I have my BS to lean back on if I can't get a good job in the brewing world.

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First, here is my (unsolicitated) take on your situation smokinghole: If Brewery QA/QC is where you want to head, then you are going to have the technical skills for that work coming out of your Bachelors work. An MSc degree program is not necessary and may even make you overqualified. Here is why: Doing the MSc work starts you down the "academic" path of doing independent research, and that is NOT what QA/QC is about. Your experience helping the brewery design its QA program is probably going to be better experience than what you could ever get from a MSc or PhD research program.

QA/QC work, regardless if it is in the brewery, in a biotech, or wherever, is pretty mundane technically speaking....you are doing the same procedures day in/day out (after all, this is what QA/QC is: Asking the question "Is this product the same as the product we made last week/month/year?"). That is why the "Lab rat" type of people shy away from it.

If that is something you can handle, then great! But don't expect it to be doing alot of "new stuff" though. I thin the same goes for alot of the things that happen in a commercial brewing operation. Face it, not much is changed in the process of making beer in the last 400-500 years!

Back to the OP situation: The OP doesn't have alot of the hard science/engineering training, but he does have has the hospitality management training, which could be leveraged into working at a brewery in any number of ways. That's is where I would recommend the OP focus his energy instead of changing direction and trying to compete with all you science guys who have this training already coming out of their undergraduate work. His classwork has him more in tune with the supply management and marketing end of things, which is just an important as the process of brewing. Of course, if his heart is truly being out there on the brewery floor he'll have to change direction a bit.

I guess what I'm trying to say to both you and the OP is that think hard about spending the time/money to try and get the training via an academic route (i.e. more classes, advanced degrees). It might seem to be a great idea from where you are standing now (on a university campus), but sometimes it better to get that entry level position and work your way in that way. Just my long-winded 0.02.

I'd eventually like to do research but that's down the road. I want to work for a while before I take on some school debt. I've been fortunate enough at this point to skate through using the MGIB and will owe nothing when I graduate. My fantasy vision would be to have a brewery of my own and do research in tandem.

I have no desire at this time to attend graduate school. It was just something I considered for further down the road should I decide to go that route. Going to graduate school does not seem like a great idea to me actually! I hate the academic pace (too slow) and I miss working. I went from six years as a EOD guy in the USAF to college student. Talk about a different world....

As to the OP using his hospitality degree, that is completely feasible. He could hit up a brewery for an entry level packaging job or something of that nature. For some more geared towards his degree he could look into a more regional sized brewery. I know Troegs near me would be an appropriate size for someone with his background and skills. I've noticed that there are quite a few regional sized breweries making the brewery a destination tourist visit. With that being the case hospitality management would certainly be an in demand position. From there I'm sure he would have more flexibility in the brewery as positions become available. It's like many other buddy system places of employment. Once you're in, you're good.

To the O.P, I'm in a similar situation. I'm finishing up my college minor in biology and planning on attending siebel, I chose siebel because the classes are easier to get into compared to ABG (availability wise). If this is what you really want go for it, realise its going to be hard often non glamorous work but presumably your young so this is the time to go for it rather than when your in your 40's with kids, a mortgage and one hell of a mid life crisis from not taking the chance when you were young.
I would say that hospitality degree could be helpful in starting a brewpub if you were to partner with somebody with lots of brewing experience or really high brewing training.
However just my .02 Cheers

First and foremost thanks for all the advice.

I tend to follow my passions a little on the fanatic side. After reading the posts of others, and also taking time to ingest the advice I definitely will continue to work in my field of study.

As a quick update just started being mentored by the CEO of The Habit. As well the associate dean of my school is an avid brewer, and one of my professors is as well. The professor is apparently going to be starting a brewery coming up pretty soon so I may have my in to the industry pretty soon. I also like the idea of hitting up local/regional breweries and offering them my expertise on the management side of things: Cost control, marketing, HR, people skills, and the dedication to make dreams a reality.

PS. I will brew for life whether I get paid to brew, or just brew in my bathtub.

What do people think about American brewers guild, I'm about to graduate with a bs in chemistry so I have all the pre req course and I'm interested in becoming a brewmaster ( eventually open my own)

tally350z said:

I like to get home schooled in the process of brewing. I think thats the best way to learn.

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Quoted for TRUTH. School is not the place to be for brewing.

.Let me get this straight. You are looking at a BS or masters to get a job that starting pay is about the same as McDonalds.
Looking at the pro forum!
Most of those guys seem to think 30 K and no real benefits is a good pay for an experienced brewer. I like brewing beer but my lawn guy makes more money than that a year.

As with most specialty industries these days, if you want to make any kind of money, you have to be your own boss.

I'm a photographer and am friends with a few staff photographers for different companies and newspapers. I work completely freelance and have no formal training. I make more than double what my friends make, and I work about 1/3 as much.

I have very little knowledge of the brewing industry, but it really seems like if you want to actually get to brew beer, you need to start your own place. Otherwise, like others have said, you'll graduate with a bunch of debt and be working on a bottling line or cleaning out mash tuns for minimum wage.

I think the pay is very dependent on the size of the place and the location of the operation. Small time brew pubs will pay very low because their profit margin isn't large and their volume isn't big enough to make up for the smallish margin. If you want to make decent money you for the most part need to get your own place. The problem with starting up is the money needed to start though. Then you'll be in the hole for a while paying back investors or paying off loans.

A good law school.

Then you can work for 30 years, buy a brewery, hire some brew school grads at 150% of minimum wage to do all the hard lifting and rough hours and enjoy your brewery.

warex said:

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Most of those guys seem to think 30 K and no real benefits is a good pay for an experienced brewer. I like brewing beer but my lawn guy makes more money than that a year.

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Is that really how much the brewers make??

warex said:

.Let me get this straight. You are looking at a BS or masters to get a job that starting pay is about the same as McDonalds.
Looking at the pro forum!
Most of those guys seem to think 30 K and no real benefits is a good pay for an experienced brewer. I like brewing beer but my lawn guy makes more money than that a year.

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Is that really how much your lawn guy makes?!