Mason jars

I'm brewing my first cider and it's not quite finished but I've been really thinking about something..
Can I bottle in mason jars? It's a traditional mason jar with a two-part lid and I think they can form a pretty good seal...
Also I have not yet learned how to primp my sugar (I don't know if I'm saying that correct) to make a carbonated beverage but will cider carbonate as much as beer? For some reason I'm under the impression that beer carbonates a lot more.... If this is true and I'm only bottling cider can I get away with it?
The next part of this question is if I cannot get away with it and the carbonation is going to be too much for the seal... How fast will it escape?
Since I have tons of mason jars can I keep it in the mason jar for a really short time like 1 to 3 days without losing too much carbon dioxide? My friends are wanting to taste it so I think if I give it to them and instruct them to drink it right away they will, so they won't be in the mason jars for too long.
If this is totally bad let me know but I'm really curious to see if anyone has tried this?

I dont know about "canning beer" but it takes at least 1 week to carbonate a beer with priming sugar and probably more like two weeks before the beer is nicely carbed I wait a minimum of 4 weeks before I pop one open.

I wouldn't worry so much about how long it takes to carbonate.... I'd be more concerned about the fact that mason jars (I'm pretty dang sure) aren't rated for pressure. BOOM goes the mason jar.

You can't carbonate in a canning jar. Its meant to withstand a small amount of vacuum pressure, but not be carbonated and they likely will bomb. Somewhere there's a really good thread/link about this.

Not again.....

Mason jars are meant to hold a vaccum, not the outward pressure of carbonation pressing on the screw ring.

Drink out of them, but don't bottle in them.

They work by creating a vacuum when you can under pressure... WHen you put your food in the jar, seal the jar and stick it inside the boiling water bath, the vacuum draws the seal downward or inward that's why the dimple on a can is supposed to be pushed inward, and if you ever come a cross a can where it is bulging outward you are in trouble...

When you bottle, the gas builds up til it maxes out the head room (held in place by the crimped cap or the cork with wire or the gasket on a grolh bottle.....The co2 hits the barrier, maxes it and then goes back into solution/

With a mason jar you would either blow the seal and all the co2 would escape or if you were lucky enough that the seal held, more than likely the glass of the jar would explode and you would have a nice bottle grenade....

The tops for a mason jar typically is a thin metal lid with a rubberized "grommet" attached to is, really just a silicon band around the edge of the lid, and a retaining ring.




When you can, the cooling of the once heated container and it's goodies creates a vaccuum, it sucks inward. It pulls the flat tightly Downward.

In fact many of the lids actually has a small indentation in the center of it, that when the vacuum occurs it is pulled inward on the top and leaves a little dimple. That's a sign that there is a vacuum pulling the lid down and keeping the veggies or jam sealed up nicely and protected from infection.

And usually after you remove the retaining ring, if everything is OK with the jar, you usually can feel/hear the the vaccum break, with a little *POP*

However any of you who have ACTUALLY canned before, probably knows that one of the ways you can tell if your food in the can spoiled is if the little dimple is pushed outword. In jars without the dimple it is really hard, usually the lid might feel loose or there might actually be wetness around the lid when you unscrew the retaining

Because usually the rotting food give of a gas which expands to push up the dimple OR it breaks the seal where the little lid gasket meets the rim of the glass.

There is considerably MORE pressure in the carbonation process of beer, often enough pressure to cause a BOTTLE BOMB, in bottles specifically made to handle the OUTWARD pressure of carbonation.

Now if you managed to find one of these older style, thick walled jars with big gaskets and flip tops...We MIGHT be having a different discussion.



But your typical jars from the grocery store...NOT.

A crown bottles cap is designed to contain the Outward and upward pressure of a beer bottle, we crimp it down, we don't create a vacuum that seats it on the bottle.

You guys are really great on this forum!! This is like full on brewing school!!
Thank you all so much for not only the answer, but a full explanation of the reasons behind the answer.... I belong to a few forums, one in particular is a Paintball forum... And half the time when people ask a question they get a quick short answer back with no explanation but I can tell that you guys are really in it to help and because you love this hobby of homebrewing!
Thanks a million guys.... Three questions down.... 1867 to go...
🍺
Cheers

Thanks! When I'm looking for info, I want as detailed an answer possible, that's how I learn things, or how my brain works. Some folks troll me and make comments about my long answers to folks questions, but I figure folks who need only a little can just take a little info, and folks who like depth can get depth. Folks can skim or folks can read every word, and hopefully all will be helped by what I write.

It means a lot that you appreciated it.

To the other part of your question, you can carbonate cider to the same level as beer. However, since apples don't have the same proteins and other compounds as grains you won't get the same head retention which may be where you're thinking the carbonation is different. Think about it more like champagne, there's lots of bubbles but they don't stay all that long. Cider's more like wine in this sense. At least that's been my experience with cider and mead.

BadgerBrigade said:

You guys are really great on this forum!! This is like full on brewing school!!
Thank you all so much for not only the answer, but a full explanation of the reasons behind the answer.... I belong to a few forums, one in particular is a Paintball forum... And half the time when people ask a question they get a quick short answer back with no explanation but I can tell that you guys are really in it to help and because you love this hobby of homebrewing!
Thanks a million guys.... Three questions down.... 1867 to go...
cdf7a
Cheers

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Is that forum PB Nation? If so I feel the same way! And Revvy is always a wealth of knowledge. This forum is an excellent source of info and finding an answer is only a few key strokes away.

I use mason jars for yeast storage but not for bottling.

Revvy.... Forget the trollers YOUR THE MAN BRO! Lol
Your answers ROCK and I feel the same way as you in the search of knowledge and your answers are very very appreciated...

And Transamguy are you a Paintballer?? You know about pbnation?
An yep, that's the one... I try to use x7og more but a few of young trollers on there too... Lol
If you ever have an interest in seeing who I'm tryin to make all this cider for...
YouTube.com/badgersbrigade


And again, this forum (and every one of you guys) IS AWESOME!!!!

BadgerBrigade said:

Revvy.... Forget the trollers YOUR THE MAN BRO! Lol
Your answers ROCK and I feel the same way as you in the search of knowledge and your answers are very very appreciated...

And Transamguy are you a Paintballer?? You know about pbnation?
An yep, that's the one... I try to use x7og more but a few of young trollers on there too... Lol
If you ever have an interest in seeing who I'm tryin to make all this cider for...
YouTube.com/badgersbrigade


And again, this forum (and every one of you guys) IS AWESOME!!!!

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Yes I am, been playing for almost 10 years and now that my kids are old enough they play too! I use Spyderman0705 it's been awhile since Iv been on I enjoy this forum more. Too bad we are on opposite ends of the country cause we will be playing in a few months and the more the merrier. Anyway good luck brewing! Cheers!

Thanks dude... Have a happy holiday!

I totally works. I've jarred in masons many times. I heard many people say it's not possible, and then more say it will most certainly explode. The first time I used mason jars I put them in a tupperware container just to make sure.... Yet to have even a leak, they all held pressure, none exploded. It works, it works well. It will swell the insert sometimes.

mesoreef said:

I totally works. I've jarred in masons many times. I heard many people say it's not possible, and then more say it will most certainly explode. The first time I used mason jars I put them in a tupperware container just to make sure.... Yet to have even a leak, they all held pressure, none exploded. It works, it works well. It will swell the insert sometimes.

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I just can't buy this at all.

mesoreef said:

I totally works. I've jarred in masons many times. I heard many people say it's not possible, and then more say it will most certainly explode. The first time I used mason jars I put them in a tupperware container just to make sure.... Yet to have even a leak, they all held pressure, none exploded. It works, it works well. It will swell the insert sometimes.

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Don;t feed the trolls... 1 total post on the forums and thats the first thing he says... probably wants to see someone get hurt from a bottle bomb.

I have a ton of old mason jars, never thought about using them for cider or beer.
I'm going to try it with some pint jars and a low carbonated cider. I'll post the results
when I get it done. If it works, I'll try it with some beer.

jekeane said:

Don;t feed the trolls... 1 total post on the forums and thats the first thing he says... probably wants to see someone get hurt from a bottle bomb.

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If you're wrong, and I'd guess you are, then what does that make you?

Many (most?) noobs lurk for a while until they think they have something interesting to add. This might be the case here. I'll always give the benefit of a doubt.

[of course, I reserve the right to be totally wrong here!]

There've been threads on this exact subject before. I vaguely remember someone saying that out of a batch, they had a couple that lost pressure but the others were fine, and no broken jars.

I'd be willing to bottle into a couple jars next batch to test it, though I wouldn't do a whole batch that way

I would not recommend it myself. Mostly because I don't see any advantage over reusing beer bottles.

passedpawn said:

If you're wrong, and I'd guess you are, then what does that make you?

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I can several hundred jars of fruits and veggies a year and have seen many jars have the glass fail under normal canning procedure. I've also seen vinegars ferment and blow jars. Anecdotely, I have bottled 600 or so beers and haven't had a single bottle fail. Forgetting the glass. The lid also can fail if not properly seated or if there are imperfections in the seal. The lid is also designed for vacuum sealing not neutral to positive pressure sealing.


Should I have called someone a troll no... But I stand by my claim that it is bad practice and will get someone hurt at some point...

jekeane said:

I stand by my claim that it is bad practice and will get someone hurt at some point...

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Thanks. That's a valuable data point. I agree. I've done some canning myself, but not a lot, so my opinion is just a guess, unlike yours.

A canning tread. Pretty dang cool

I just recently got into it. Make mostly jams right now. The instruction say bring the mixture to a boil you can't stir down. It' a scary point. I made three quarts of papaya jam a few days ago. I thought my boil was good enough and added a package of pectin. The instruction say to then boil it for exactly one minute. Like its magic. I think really and I could very we'll be incorrect. The minute boil is to pasture use the last addition

I screwed up though. The jam after two days is very much like runny butter

Dan said:

I screwed up though. The jam after two days is very much like runny butter

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My brother in law just sent me a video of some blueberries he didn't get up to proper heat that we're a giant fizzing mess after a day. I told him he needed to thou and airlock on it and see what it became!

I almost always keg. Sometimes when I have half a keg left, and want an empty keg for a new beer, I have used quart sized jars and/or growlers.Pour from the tap, cap and seal. I have stored jars and growlers for months both in the fridge and in the basement with no problems.

However, I would NOT condition beer in jars nor growlers. Here is why:

By carbonating first in a keg, either forced or natural, you have better control over the pressure in whatever vessel you transport it to. Essentially, carbonating uses greater head pressure to dissolve co2. , whereas when you fill a growler, the dissolved co2 equalizes and creates the pressure in the headspace, which will never be more than what is needed to achieve the equallibrium. There are plenty of wiki articles with equations for how all this works.

More evidence: he metal screw tops on growlers are no thicker than the lid of a ball jar. Why are there no people in the forums worried about filling a growler, and leaving it in the fridge for a few days? Isn't it going to explode from the pressure? Of course not.

I realize that the OP was interested in bottle conditioning in jars. I agree this is a no go in general. I doubt anyone has seen any issues with storing beer in jars or growlers, which were filled after carbonating.