Souring w/lactic acid

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toddfore

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Attempted a sour using WLP644. Fermented for 18 days before moving to 2ndery. Now in 2ndery for 24 days and not getting any tart or sour. Does taste good but not what expected. Bought some lactic acid but wanted to ask questions before using. Will this give immediate sour taste or does it have to condition for a while and how long? Approx. how much for a 4.5 gallon batch for sour? Thanks.

Todd
 
What was your fermentation temp, and how much hops did you use? I've found that even a small hop addition can severely limit your lacto, and that it needs temps at least in the 80s to work well.
 
I have not done any sours yet, but I can tell you WLP 644 does not produce sour flavors/Acids. I like it in Blond ales and some IPAs.

Brett ≠ sour

WLP644 is a Saccharomyces with Brett like character, mainly tropical.
Brettanomyces can produce funk, horse blanket, tropical fruit, and some tart. but it does not produce the Acids for a sour.

To naturally sour you would need Lactobacillus and/or Pediococcus and maybe other bugs.
 
Fermented and conditioning at 72*. 12g of Mount Hood @60min which is supposed to give me 9IBU. Also did 28g of AU Summer in a 20min whirlpool @ 170*. WLP644 according to White labs is to give a tart taste w/Mango and pineapple characteristics. I know that isn't sour but was hoping tart would turn sour the longer it conditioned. Don't really consider this tart at this point.
 
Brettanomyces is not a souring agent. Yeast in general are not. You want bacteria (lactobacillus or pediococcus) for true souring. You can still add lacto or pedio now if you like. The higher the SG, the more the bacteria has to eat.

Lactic acid can be used in smaller doses. Too much creates an aftertaste.
 
As for souring with lactic acid you can do it. I find the flavor to not nearly be the same. Think regular sugar vs artificial sweetener.
 
DemonsRun said:
I have not done any sours yet, but I can tell you WLP 644 does not produce sour flavors/Acids. I like it in Blond ales and some IPAs.

Brett ≠ sour

WLP644 is a Saccharomyces with Brett like character, mainly tropical.
Brettanomyces can produce funk, horse blanket, tropical fruit, and some tart. but it does not produce the Acids for a sour.

To naturally sour you would need Lactobacillus and/or Pediococcus and maybe other bugs.
Click to expand...
I hadn't even checked on that. Yeah, if it's a brett it'll get funky over time, but not sour.

Also, if you had been doing a lacto culture, 91 IBU would definitely inhibit lacto growth. When I run a sour I do ~4 gallons of wort for 10 days on lacto only (no sacc) at 80+ degrees with no hops, then boil my hops into a smaller wort (~1 gal) for my yeast starter.
 
Ok, will try with a small sample to see if it's worth trying. Next time will go with lacto.
 
DemonsRun said:
91 IBU will inhibit the Bacteria.

A true Brett will give more of the "Tart" but still not sour.
WLP648 or WLP650 might give you what you are looking for.
Also WLP650 can be used after primary fermentation.

A good list of some of the Brett and sour blends out there.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/commercial-cultures.html
Click to expand...
Worth noting that this page lists WLP644 as *formerly* identified as a Brett strain, before being lab tested as a sacch strain with some Brett-like characteristics.
 

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