How much Diacetyl is Dangerous?

Check the link I have attached. I am curious to know the effects of Diacetyl in our homebrews. Anyone heard of this problem? I am sure that the volume we ingest or inhale is minimal in comparison to workers exposed to it daily for years but what is an acceptable level and how does one test for it?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...-2m-award-125914508--abc-news-topstories.html

Here's a study on mice. You would have to heat and inhale the diacetyl over a period of time. There's no consensus on it's inhaled toxicity. There doesn't seem to be any risk from ingesting it and EU regulators say it is safe as a faloring additive. Diacetyl boils at 88C, and I couldn't find data on volatility.

If I remember right and the person saying it was right... you get WAY more diacetyl in a bag of popcorn than in a 5g batch lousy with diacetyl. If it's okay to eat butter flavored popcorn then you've got nothing to worry about as far as your beer is concerned.

maddad said:

Check the link I have attached. I am curious to know the effects of Diacetyl in our homebrews. Anyone heard of this problem? I am sure that the volume we ingest or inhale is minimal in comparison to workers exposed to it daily for years but what is an acceptable level and how does one test for it?

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...-2m-award-125914508--abc-news-topstories.html

Click to expand...

It's too late for you, you are a goner.
PS - can I have your Grain mill?


Seriously - The Diacetyl we consume is WAY WAY less than is present in popcorn. And we drink it, not inhale it. To suffer damage, you need to heat it up and inhale it.

I think you are safe.

(I guess no grain mill for me?)

Not this again....I thought this hysteria wound itself down on here back in August....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/diacetyl-alzheimers-link-346609/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/diacetyl-causes-cancer-346596/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/never-has-diacetyl-rest-been-so-important-345227/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/diacetyl-linked-alzheimers-346007/?highlight=Diacetyl

Hey, did you guys hear, the White House brews beer???

Diacetyl!!! RUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!

If this joker can win $7.2 million, imagine how much a theater worker can sue for or someone in a popcorn factory.

Bottom line: this lawsuit is a joke; McDonalds-hot-coffee crap

Revvy said:

Not this again....I thought this hysteria wound itself down on here back in August....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/diacetyl-alzheimers-link-346609/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/diacetyl-causes-cancer-346596/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/never-has-diacetyl-rest-been-so-important-345227/?highlight=Diacetyl

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/diacetyl-linked-alzheimers-346007/?highlight=Diacetyl

Hey, did you guys hear, the White House brews beer???

Click to expand...

Someone is wound up tight... not everyone memorizes the history of the forum. It's pretty much a sure bet when a new story makes headline news and relates at all to beer, it's gonna show up here.

I ask questions out of curiosity, not ignorance. Thanks to all who posted info or links. My health is of more concern than it was twenty years ago.

I have read the above links and found them to be inconclusive. I am not a scientist. I do brew a lot of beer. I have trouble discerning some off flavors. I would be concerned with the amount I drink and how much more I intend to with regards to diacetyl levels in my beer.

I am a scientist and I don't worry about things like this in the slightest. Everything causes cancer... everything is killing you... in all honesty, the alcohol in your beer is a greater cause of concern than the diacetyl.

As far as I can tell, it's the inhaled powder, as much or more than the diacetyl itself, that's the problem.

IffyG said:

I am a scientist and I don't worry about things like this in the slightest. Everything causes cancer... everything is killing you... in all honesty, the alcohol in your beer is a greater cause of concern than the diacetyl.

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You're killing me iffy! If it is not alzheimers it is cirrhosis (sp). You are correct, I should be more concerned with the alcohol. To support my initial comments, I can measure ABV and even my consumption. I do not have the means to measure diacetyl or even identify it by taste. I will research this further as I would rather minimize the amounts and brew cleaner beer.

Denny said:

As far as I can tell, it's the inhaled powder, as much or more than the diacetyl itself, that's the problem.

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Thanks Denny. I'll spend some more time trying to find ways to refine my process to reduce or remove it completely. I associate butter with mouthfeel more than I do taste. Some off flavors are difficult for me to explain. Phenols or fusels have been the easiest for me to identify.

maddad said:

You're killing me iffy! If it is not alzheimers it is cirrhosis (sp). You are correct, I should be more concerned with the alcohol. To support my initial comments, I can measure ABV and even my consumption. I do not have the means to measure diacetyl or even identify it by taste. I will research this further as I would rather minimize the amounts and brew cleaner beer.

Click to expand...

Sorry for being realistic... but anyways, if you are honesty concerned about it do a diacetyl rest on all your beers and call it a day. That's all you can do as diacetyl is produced as a byproduct of fermentation.

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/Diacetyl_Time_Line.pdf

If you are paranoid about it, send off a sample to White Labs and have them analyze your beer for diacetyl. It's an add on test, so it will get pretty spendy.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/white-labs-alcohol-test-kit.html

In those popcorn lung cases (not the specific one in the OP's case) the problem wasn't consumption of diacetyl. It was inhalation of the significant amounts of diacetyl in the lungs by workers in the artifical butter factories and popcorn manufacturers, much in the same way coal miners get lung damage from inhaling coal dust.

In the story OP linked, the defense is probably right, the long term exposure to carpet cleaning chemicals was more likely to produce the harm. Who knows, maybe he has lungs uniquely hypersensitive to diacetyl. Not enough facts are presented about the lawsuit to know what science supported causation.

IffyG said:

Sorry for being realistic... but anyways, if you are honesty concerned about it do a diacetyl rest on all your beers and call it a day. That's all you can do as diacetyl is produced as a byproduct of fermentation.

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/Diacetyl_Time_Line.pdf

If you are paranoid about it, send off a sample to White Labs and have them analyze your beer for diacetyl. It's an add on test, so it will get pretty spendy.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/white-labs-alcohol-test-kit.html

Click to expand...

I appreciate the links, especially the pdf. I had only associated diacetyl rest with lagering. I have a kolsch finishing out and will incorporate the diacetyl rest as part of my regimen starting now. No, not paranoid. I am curious, so a one time test of a typical brew might be in the works. Everything I do to refine my process will only help me create a better beer.