HELP! BIAB melted, grain loose....

So I have a snow day today and decided to do my first BIAB session. I poured the grain into the bag with my kettle at 120. I began heating to 150F and i totally forgot to put my collander into the bottom of the kettle first. Needless to say the bag melted (it was a nylon bag) and the grain is now loose in the kettle.

I figure I have a couple of options:

1) Scrap the batch (Unlikely)

2) siphon off as much liquid into a bucket, then pour the rest of the contents into another bucket lined with another grain bag (I bought 2 just in case)

3) Attempt to pull wort out of the valve at the bottom of the kettle while stirring (I don't think this would work well)

I'm still mashing at the moment so i have about an hour to figure this out. i think the beer can be salvaged, but I'm expecting to loose some volume in the process.

thanks for the help!

Sounds like #2 is your best option - sort of.

What kinda siphon (otherwise you'll be posting in about an hour with "help! my siphon melted )

I'd use as big of a glass container as you can to move your contents from pot A to the lined bucket to strain....

I have an auto siphon. I was going to do the mash out at 170, but I'm not sure if I want to now. I have a lined bucket and I wash thinking of siphoning of the top, but at 170 I think I would have some issues. I think the best way to go would be to try and pour from the kettle into the bucket just by tipping it on the burner carefully. Once I'm down to a manageable weight I'll just pick the whole thing up and bump it in.

The only other issue I have is it's a full volume, no sparge BIAB I was attempting to I had about 7.5 gal to start. I have a couple other containers I can use.

Is there any harm in having some time between the mash and the boil? I thinking maybe only an hour or so at the most?

If you have a stainless strainer, I'd try to start by scooping out grain with that and eventually try to siphon off somewhere else.

I do have a large strainer. I'll have to give that a shot as well. I don't expect to get everything out, but if I can get 95% I should be ok to move on to the boil.

Thanks again for the ideas!

Ok so I think I have a solution figured out. I'm going to pour the mash after making out at 170 into a fermenter bucket lined with my second bag. I'll pull the grain bag out and put it into another fermenter bucket and strain the rest of the wort. ill quickly scrub out the kettle to remove whatever plastic wide is in there then transfer the strained wort back into the kettle.

Wish me luck!

I thought about my procedure and found only one flaw, but I don't know how it'll play into everything. When pouring the mash into the bucket I will be introducing air. I know adding oxygen to hot wort is generally bad, but if it's before the boil with the oxidized wort be boiled off?

So far I'm boiling away so ill just see how this batch turns out. Is there a taste I would look for to determine oxidation?

Thanks!

mtbiker278 said:

I thought about my procedure and found only one flaw, but I don't know how it'll play into everything. When pouring the mash into the bucket I will be introducing air. I know adding oxygen to hot wort is generally bad, but if it's before the boil with the oxidized wort be boiled off?

So far I'm boiling away so ill just see how this batch turns out. Is there a taste I would look for to determine oxidation?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

You'll be fine.

Hot-side-aeration has pretty much been debunked.

I think you have this one salvaged.

For your next adventure in 'brew in a bag", heat your water first, all the way to the dough in temperature (probably about 160 to maybe 165) and turn off the heat. Put the bag in and stir the grain into the water, watching for dough balls. Stir really well to mix the water and grain and then take the temperature of the mash. If you did this right, you should be really close to the mash temperature. Stir it some more now and then put the lid on. In 10 minutes, check the temperature again. Add just a little heat to bring it back to the mash temperature. Stir it well, turn off the heat and put the lid back on. If you ground your grain or crushed it really fine, most of the conversion will be done already but you want to check it again in another 10 for temperature and stir some more. When your mash period is over, pull the bag out of the kettle and squeeze as much wort out of it as you can. Dispose of the grain, turn the heat back on to bring the wort to boil and add your hops.

Had this problem too. Here's the cheap solution!

http://www.amazon.com/Trudeau-Stainless-Steel-Vegetable-Steamer/dp/B00062B0K6


I can't remember offhand which of the "old" guard (as in lots of posts, not age) suggested this. Works really well!

Well the beer is happily fermenting today. I go a Pre-boil OG of 1.044, and a post-boil OG of 1.060 which is on target with my estimates of 75% efficiency for the first go around.

Ironically I did a partial mash before this one where I heated the water to 165F and then dropped in the grains. However I over shot my mash temp as it dropped to about 160F. I figured this time around I would sneak up on my target temp, but totally forgot to protect the sack of grain.

I like the vegetable steamer idea, but I think in the end as I expeand my collection of equipment I'll move to a false bottom and a cooler. This way my first attempt at all grain and it didn't turn out too bag so far even with the mishap. Lesson learned.

PS- doing 5 gal batches in a 15gal pot is money! Had a higher evaporation rate, but it laughed at the potential boil-over. Ten gal batches will be trickier though.

Thanks again for the replies!

When I do BIAB; I heat my water to strike temp, kill the heat, place the bag in the water, dough-in, stir well & cover. Wrap the kettle with an old sleeping bag & I only lose a couple degs temp over 1 hr. No extra heat required.

Sorry for your luck

djt17 said:

When I do BIAB; I heat my water to strike temp, kill the heat, place the bag in the water, dough-in, stir well & cover. Wrap the kettle with an old sleeping bag & I only lose a couple degs temp over 1 hr. No extra heat required.

Click to expand...

I do the same except I have a stainless collapsible steamer basket(it doesn't have a piece sticking up)

That I put on the bottom. It cost $6 at Walmart.

It looks like this.

ShakerD said:

I do the same except I have a stainless collapsible steamer basket(it doesn't have a piece sticking up)

That I put on the bottom. It cost $6 at Walmart.

It looks like this.

Click to expand...

Oops, good catch! Mine doesn't have that either, and I broke the bottom footies off too!

I like that little false bottom. Are you guys putting that at the bottome of a cooler, or your BK?

As far as melting your grain bag, I'd say invest in a brewing program. If you don't want to invest, then run the trials. If you brew every weekend, then you could get 3 batches out of a trial of beersmith. If not, then you can switch trials and get at least a couple or more of free batches. 20 dollars is money very well spent to avoid problems like this. It's much easier to just input the info and get the answers than to have problems that would make you even consider scrapping a batch of beer. Applying heat to a pot with a grain bag is not a good idea, even if you are careful. Either invest i the software, or find the formula and do the math, so you can just heat the water, add the grain, and let it sit for the hour.

mikeysab said:

I like that little false bottom. Are you guys putting that at the bottome of a cooler, or your BK?

Click to expand...

In the kettle

mikeysab said:

I like that little false bottom. Are you guys putting that at the bottome of a cooler, or your BK?

Click to expand...

+1 in the bottom of the keggle.

I drop it in before I mash in.

To get the steamer out before I boil I use one of those pointy BBQ pitch forks.

Cheers

I've started doing what djt17 does. I use a thick towel. It keeps the temp pretty good (better than just the aluminum walls of my pot) and I don't have to keep putting the heat on.

I have done BIAB many times, and I always put the bag in before pouring the water in and heating it. I didn't even know the bag could melt this way! I have a snug fit on top of the kettle and I keep the bag off the bottom of the kettle while it is on the flame.

The bag I was using was 18" x 30" so it was more narrow and long and wouldn't fit over the top of my 15" diameter pot. I'll chech out that little strainer thing.

I already am on the Beersmith train with the free trial. It's helpful in many ways. I didn't use the recommended strike temp the last go around since I was going to heat up to my temp. Next tiome around I'll shoot for something like 165F before dropping the bag of grain in.

This is how I BIAB in 5 gal fruit strainer bag from LHBS and an alluminium 40 qt lobster/crab/crawfish combo from Walmart. I'm planning to make a bigger bag from voile down the road. No melted bags for me so far.





This way with my old skiing coat I don't loose a single degree during 90 min mash. If I have to I can set electric burner on 10-15% to keep the temp stable, but I noticed its unnecessary





I LOVE convenience and simplecity of BIAB :rockin:

I was thinking of doing something similar and getting the strainer for my pot. There was also some guy that made a single vessel brewery out of a similar set-up using 304 stainless mesh lining the baskest and some carage bolts to prop up the strainer.

I got my wife to make up a bag for me from voile, she's handy with a sewing machine.
I measured the height from the top of my boiler to the element and then had her sew in a plimsoll line an inch or so above the element height as you can see in the following picture.
She also makes bags for other homebrewers, we've sold a few of them at this stage, nothing big but a little pocket money.

Bringing it to the correct height and then tightening the drawstring means I've never had a melted bag and don't expect to get one anytime soon.

Curious what kind of stitching is that along the seam? I'm thinking the Voile bag is the way to go in the future maybe with a basket. I have an old sewing machine at my disposal, not sure if I know how to set it up though. I would try to sew it by hand with a locking stitch, but it would likely look like Frankenstein's forehead. I guess as long as it's effective it shouldn't matter much. Maybe this will be my cheap project for the weekend.

Which remind me I still have to find jars for yeast washing and starters.... So many things to do....

It's actually an overlocking stitch done with a specialist overlocker, so your normal machine won't do it, but that said there are ways to do the job with a normal machine as my own bag was made before she got the overlocker from her mother.

Below is an example of overlocking.




I'll ask her tonight if she can explain how she did my bag.

mtbiker278 said:

Curious what kind of stitching is that along the seam? I'm thinking the Voile bag is the way to go in the future maybe with a basket. I have an old sewing machine at my disposal, not sure if I know how to set it up though. I would try to sew it by hand with a locking stitch, but it would likely look like Frankenstein's forehead. I guess as long as it's effective it shouldn't matter much. Maybe this will be my cheap project for the weekend.

Which remind me I still have to find jars for yeast washing and starters.... So many things to do....

Click to expand...

What I told my daughter was to use the heaviest thread she could find & then double-stitch. As far as the technical name for the stitch...??? She used her machine; it doesn't look like the stitch above, but it seems to be holding so far.

EoinMag said:

I got my wife to make up a bag for me from voile, she's handy with a sewing machine.
I measured the height from the top of my boiler to the element and then had her sew in a plimsoll line an inch or so above the element height as you can see in the following picture.
She also makes bags for other homebrewers, we've sold a few of them at this stage, nothing big but a little pocket money.

Bringing it to the correct height and then tightening the drawstring means I've never had a melted bag and don't expect to get one anytime soon.

Click to expand...

That draw string is awesome. I wish I would have thought of that.

I twist the top and then curve it in to a U shape. Then I zip tie it shut with three ties. I add three more to use as loops for the hook from the engine hoist.

The lady that sowed mine just flipped the edges over on themselves three layers thick and used heavy duty thread. I put 22+ lbs of dry grain in to mine and who knows what it weights once it's wet.

I have snapped the zip ties before however.

Hi mtbiker278
I can understand how frustrating this must have been for you. However, If I were you I would dump this batch When the plastic (nylon) bag melted it would have released toxic gas into your wort! It's not the sort of thing that you would now want to drink. Just my two cents but I would consider it a lesson learned and dump it.

Mark

mtbiker278 said:

So I have a snow day today and decided to do my first BIAB session. I poured the grain into the bag with my kettle at 120. I began heating to 150F and i totally forgot to put my collander into the bottom of the kettle first. Needless to say the bag melted (it was a nylon bag) and the grain is now loose in the kettle.

I figure I have a couple of options:

1) Scrap the batch (Unlikely)

2) siphon off as much liquid into a bucket, then pour the rest of the contents into another bucket lined with another grain bag (I bought 2 just in case)

3) Attempt to pull wort out of the valve at the bottom of the kettle while stirring (I don't think this would work well)

I'm still mashing at the moment so i have about an hour to figure this out. i think the beer can be salvaged, but I'm expecting to loose some volume in the process.

thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

paraordnance said:

This is how I BIAB in 5 gal fruit strainer bag from LHBS and an alluminium 40 qt lobster/crab/crawfish combo from Walmart. I'm planning to make a bigger bag from voile down the road. No melted bags for me so far.

This way with my old skiing coat I don't loose a single degree during 90 min mash. If I have to I can set electric burner on 10-15% to keep the temp stable, but I noticed its unnecessary

I LOVE convenience and simplecity of BIAB :rockin:

Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I have one of those sea food pots also but hadn't thought about using it with my Bag. This makes me want to run down to my LHBS and grab some grain tomorrow instead of waiting for the extract kit I ordered from Austin HBS to get here.

They are having a Brown Ale Cask beer tasting tomorrow. I might just do it.

http://www.citybeverage.com/

smokewater said:

Thanks for this. I have one of those sea food pots also but hadn't thought about using it with my Bag. This makes me want to run down to my LHBS and grab some grain tomorrow instead of waiting for the extract kit I ordered from Austin HBS to get here.

They are having a Brown Ale Cask beer tasting tomorrow. I might just do it.

http://www.citybeverage.com/

Click to expand...

I ditched extract idea after second brew, it was boring and expensive! I now buy grains in bulk, 2-row sack for $25 from local malting plant and sack of pilsner from LHBS for $45. Thats enough base grains to last me a year!

Hey All,

So I wanted to show off my fix for my last disaster. I went to the fabric store and tried to find the Swiss Voile with no sucess. The closest this was this wedding dress fabric that had some sparkly stuff weaved into it. Instead I got some polyester yarn and a polyester drawstring. They I made a stop at walmart for a $5 curtain and some mason jars (yeast washing). About a half hour later I ended up with the following:









It fits my 15.5gal pot a little loose but I'm ok with that. All told I have a doubled over bag with a draw-string that cost me about $12 to make. It should be plenty sturdy to hold the weight.

Markab - I looked up some of the chemical properties of Nylon and aside from the plasticizers, there was only one chemical I found that could be harmful when nylon degrades. However, it's boil point is room temp, so I'm pretty sure whatever gases were release they were boiled off during the 60min time period.

On the same line of thought, should i still find that steamer basket to prop my new bag up off the bottom of the pot? From what I've read people just through them in without issue? I suppose it's really only a problem if I'm trying to heat the mash, and could be avoided by mashing in at ~165F, and some liberal application of sleeping bags and blankets.

Thanks again for all the replies and feedback!

Is there any consensus on whether to put the grains into a dry pot, then add water and heat. Or bringing your water to strike temp and then adding the grain?

I was reading something about letting the grain get wet, hydrate?, before bringing up to temp?

If you put the grain into the cold water and then heat, it is very difficult to heat the mixture evenly and you will likely get the bottom way to hot before your thermometer shows the mix at the right temperature. By heating the water first, it will be all the right temperature and then you add the grain to it. You do have to calculate the correct temperature for the water so that when the grain is added the temperature of the mix is what you need for mashing. Just be sure to stir the grain in slowly and mix well to avoid big dry clumps as these will stay as dry clumps and won't convert.