hop bursted rye IPA critique

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cadarnell

cadarnell

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after drinking SN ruthless rye all weekend, I want to try a rye IPA ... I've also been wanting to try hop bursting ... here is a recipe I have been working on with a little research ... any thoughts would be appreciated ... thanks !!

65% 6 lbs Briess 2 Row Brewers Malt
22% 2 lbs Rye Malt
8% 12 oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt
3% 4 oz. Briess White Wheat Malt info
3% 4 oz Briess Carapils


Batch size: 3.5 gallons Original Gravity
1.070 / 17.1° Plato (1.063 to 1.073)
Final Gravity
1.019 / 4.8° Plato (1.017 to 1.020)
Color
11° SRM / 22° EBC
(Copper to Red/Lt. Brown)
Mash Efficiency
75%
hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 30 mins 1.0 Nugget info pellet 13.0
boil 15 mins 0.5 Mt. Hood info pellet 6.0
boil 5 mins 0.5 Mt. Hood info pellet 6.0
boil 1 min 1.0 Mt. Hood info pellet 6.0

Boil: 4.0 avg gallons for 60 minutes Bitterness
60.7 IBU / 0 HBU
ƒ: Tinseth
BU:GU
0.87
yeast
Safale US-05 Dry Yeast info
ale yeast in dry form with low to medium flocculation and 73% attenuation
 
3 oz of hops isn't anywhere near enough for a hopbursted IPA. Need probably double that.

Also, Mt Hood as your main flavor hop is pretty unusual & won't give you the kind of flavor we usually think of as an IPA. Not that it'll be bad, just won't taste like an IPA.

Finally, mash low -- you want you FG to be down around 1.015 or below.
 
mkling said:
3 oz of hops isn't anywhere near enough for a hopbursted IPA. Need probably double that.
Click to expand...


I brewed up Evil Twin this weekend and it called for a total of 5 oz. of hops over the course the last 20 minutes with 4 of them being in the last 10 minutes. Heretic Brewing does this same beer and it's got HUGE aroma and flavor. Smooooth bitterness too. Hop bursting FTW.
 
mkling said:
3 oz of hops isn't anywhere near enough for a hopbursted IPA. Need probably double that.

Also, Mt Hood as your main flavor hop is pretty unusual & won't give you the kind of flavor we usually think of as an IPA. Not that it'll be bad, just won't taste like an IPA.

Finally, mash low -- you want you FG to be down around 1.015 or below.
Click to expand...

i saw the mt hood on another popular rye IPA recipe so I thought it would be good with the rye malt ... any other suggestions for a rye beer's hops ??

this is a 3.5 gallon recipe and I like my IPAs around 60 IBUs so I thought it was enough hops ... did you see it was 3.5 gallons ??

thatnks for the thoughts ... i need the help .. as I am still a Noob :rockin:
 
Looks like a scaled down version of my recipe....I've made it with all late additon hops a few times, but it never seemd to have the "hop punch" I like in the beer. The bitterness was too subdued and mellow for my tastes.
 
Looks good, but I would up the late hop additions as well. Just brewed a CDA with 15.5oz of hops added after the 15 minute addition mark. :rockin:


Also I'm extra jealous you have found Ruthless. I live < 200mi away from Chico and I still can't find it...
 
Denny said:
Looks like a scaled down version of my recipe....I've made it with all late additon hops a few times, but it never seemd to have the "hop punch" I like in the beer. The bitterness was too subdued and mellow for my tastes.
Click to expand...

yea ... i guess it is pretty much your recipe ... I just swapped the bittering hops to nugget .... maybe this isn't the beer to try hop bursting on I guess ... I'm on the fence now ... thanks for the thoughts !!!
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Looks good, but I would up the late hop additions as well. Just brewed a CDA with 15.5oz of hops added after the 15 minute addition mark. :rockin:


Also I'm extra jealous you have found Ruthless. I live < 200mi away from Chico and I still can't find it...
Click to expand...

well as soon as you can get your hands on some, do it ... I like it better than celebration ... just a very balanced beer ... BTW, I think celebration was more bitter this year than last ... probably just my taste buds .. who knows ... cheers !!
 
Ruthless was pretty tasty- like Torpedo with Rye! I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how the recipe turns out.
 
I've no good experience with Rye, but am a big IPA brewer and think you are on the right track. I'm a big fan of 30 minute or less for bittering AND flavor on the hops on an IPA(not IIPA), and think your amounts are good for a first try. But most of those I did that way use low color, meaning a touch less crystal 60 than you have (for 3.5 gallons), especially with the rye.

I'm drinking an SN ruthless right now, so am trying to "taste" your brew in my head, FWIW.... But we all have different tastes, so do what sounds good for your flavor buds.

To emphasize not upping the bitterness, the rye does add pepper, which I think ups the bitterness perception, which further strengthens your hop strategy, IMHO.

Let us know how it turns out!

Rich
 
I just brewed this myself. It's on gas and quite acceptable :rockin:

Regarding the hop presence, mine came out just right in bitterness, flavor, and aroma. Here's my take on this beer (I didn't realize this was a spin on Denny's recipe until just now). The centennial is fruity and competes with the rye, I'd probably replace that with more chinook next time (I do love the centennial though!). I'd go with a greater percentage of rye, also. Probably at least 25%, and extend the mash to over an hour.

I've had the Ruthless Rye. The recipe below does not have that strong rye presence.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071
Measured Final Gravity: 1.019
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 %
Bitterness: 65.6 IBUs
Est Color: 7.0 SRM
Yeast: S-05

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
4 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %

80.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 37.0 IBUs
30.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 8.4 IBUs
60.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 9.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs​
 
Denny said:
Looks like a scaled down version of my recipe....I've made it with all late additon hops a few times, but it never seemd to have the "hop punch" I like in the beer. The bitterness was too subdued and mellow for my tastes.
Click to expand...

I like Denny's recipe alot. But I think Mt Hood is maybe not the best choice for hop bursting. It's like a noble hop- fine, with a great hops flavor, but not the "big citrusy" flavors I seem to like best in hopbursted ales.

How about Denny's grainbill with the hopbursting from Jamil's Evil Twin? That seems like the best of both worlds.

I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
 
passedpawn said:
I just brewed this myself. It's on gas and quite acceptable :rockin:

Regarding the hop presence, mine came out just right in bitterness, flavor, and aroma. Here's my take on this beer (I didn't realize this was a spin on Denny's recipe until just now). The centennial is fruity and competes with the rye, I'd probably replace that with more chinook next time (I do love the centennial though!). I'd go with a greater percentage of rye, also. Probably at least 25%, and extend the mash to over an hour.

I've had the Ruthless Rye. The recipe below does not have that strong rye presence.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071
Measured Final Gravity: 1.019
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 %
Bitterness: 65.6 IBUs
Est Color: 7.0 SRM

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
4 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %

80.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 37.0 IBUs
30.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 8.4 IBUs
60.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 9.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs​
Click to expand...

I guess I should read to the end before posting! I love the looks of this recipe. I'd probably change up the rye a bit, using some malted rye to get up to 20% rye, but otherwise I think this looks great. I also love amarillo hops with rye.
 
Yooper said:
I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
Click to expand...

Last summer I did a rye/saison with 25% rye and I thought the rye contribution was modest. When I brew my first rye IPA next month I planned to use 40% rye to help it "compete" with the burst hopping I will no doubt employ. Does 40% rye sound like too much in a very hop-forward IPA?
 
Yooper said:
I like Denny's recipe alot. But I think Mt Hood is maybe not the best choice for hop bursting. It's like a noble hop- fine, with a great hops flavor, but not the "big citrusy" flavors I seem to like best in hopbursted ales.

How about Denny's grainbill with the hopbursting from Jamil's Evil Twin? That seems like the best of both worlds.

I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
Click to expand...

So I looked at evil twins hops .... Do you think Columbus and cascade will be complementary to the rye ? .... Do you think it would be ok to keep some nugget in there at the 30 minute addition ? ..... Thanks for the thoughts !
 
cadarnell said:
So I looked at evil twins hops .... Do you think Columbus and cascade will be complementary to the rye ? .... Do you think it would be ok to keep some nugget in there at the 30 minute addition ? ..... Thanks for the thoughts !
Click to expand...

I really like centennial with a rye IPA, and I've never used nugget. I especially like chinook, simcoe and amarillo with rye.

Here's the last rye IPA I did:

8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 55.2 %
3 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6 20.7 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (US) (3.5 SRM) Grain 7 13.8 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8 5.2 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.4 %

1.00 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11 42.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite (Wyeast Labs #1450PC) [50.00 ml] Yeast 17 (with starter)
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs

If I was going to hopburst this, I'd just drop the FWH and add more hops at 20, 15, 10 minutes.
 
Yooper said:
I really like centennial with a rye IPA, and I've never used nugget. I especially like chinook, simcoe and amarillo with rye.

Here's the last rye IPA I did:

8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 55.2 %
3 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6 20.7 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (US) (3.5 SRM) Grain 7 13.8 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8 5.2 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.4 %

1.00 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11 42.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite (Wyeast Labs #1450PC) [50.00 ml] Yeast 17 (with starter)
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs

If I was going to hopburst this, I'd just drop the FWH and add more hops at 20, 15, 10 minutes.
Click to expand...


Ok I love simcoe so I am going to work that in .... I'll post what I brew in a few days .... I think I can brew Thursday night ... All great info ... Thanks
 
RichBenn said:
I've no good experience with Rye, but am a big IPA brewer and think you are on the right track. I'm a big fan of 30 minute or less for bittering AND flavor on the hops on an IPA(not IIPA), and think your amounts are good for a first try. But most of those I did that way use low color, meaning a touch less crystal 60 than you have (for 3.5 gallons), especially with the rye.

I'm drinking an SN ruthless right now, so am trying to "taste" your brew in my head, FWIW.... But we all have different tastes, so do what sounds good for your flavor buds.

To emphasize not upping the bitterness, the rye does add pepper, which I think ups the bitterness perception, which further strengthens your hop strategy, IMHO.

Let us know how it turns out!

Rich
Click to expand...

Thanks for these thoughts .... I'll post here what I brew and the results ... Cheers !!
 
bigbeergeek said:
Last summer I did a rye/saison with 25% rye and I thought the rye contribution was modest. When I brew my first rye IPA next month I planned to use 40% rye to help it "compete" with the burst hopping I will no doubt employ. Does 40% rye sound like too much in a very hop-forward IPA?
Click to expand...

I think you might be getting close to a good rye flavor. My Rye PA had 22% and it also was just mediocre. I tried the Ruthless last weekend and thought the rye was not very strong at all. It cannot compare to Short's Rich's Rye. Rich's Rye is like sticking your head into a bag of rye bread. No kidding. I was at Short's last summer and I asked the guy behind the bar what percent rye was in that beer. He had to go into the back and ask someone but what he told me I could not believe. He said 85%!
 
cadarnell said:
yea ... i guess it is pretty much your recipe ... I just swapped the bittering hops to nugget .... maybe this isn't the beer to try hop bursting on I guess ... I'm on the fence now ... thanks for the thoughts !!!
Click to expand...

Nugget is a sub for Columbus, which is what my recipe uses.
 
Denny said:
Nugget is a sub for Columbus, which is what my recipe uses.
Click to expand...

i think I may chicken out on hopbursting my first rye IPA and just brew your recipe ... the reviews on that beer are some of the best I've read for a homebrew recipe .. congrats on that !!

i think what i am going to do thursday night is, brew a 2.5 gallon version of yours and also do a 2.5 gallon hopbursted gumballhead-ish wheat beer ... same night ... any other thoughts would still be appreciated before thursday all ... thanks for the help !!
 
Did anyone end up having tasting results from these recipes? I am thinking about doing one, let me know how it turned out!
 
keesh said:
Did anyone end up having tasting results from these recipes? I am thinking about doing one, let me know how it turned out!
Click to expand...

I did (mine!). Enjoying one today by the pool. Thanks for asking!

2012-02-11_at_15_04_30.jpg
 

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