So much for dirt cheap.

Last year my first year hops took a real beating as a result of an unusually wet season. Couple that with my hard clay soils and well the odds are stacked against me hoppy little friends.

Still, 3 plants fought through the bogs and one even "fruited" a harvestable yield.

So, this year I tripling my varieties and completely revising my hop yard in favor of a raised bed. I have managed to collect a fair amount of free material to constuct said garden. I am using galvanized sheet metal for the bed side which will be lined with a landscape fabric to ward off potential zinc leeching into the soil.

Now I am faced with 2 final issues. Procuring 3, 16 foot long posts to emulate a commercial yard and buying soil on the cheap. I have found the posts but it took some searching.

The soil is another issue al together. Dang is that stuff expensive. I got a quote for 2 tons delivered at $300.00.

How many yards is 2 tons? I got 3 yard delivered last year for under $100 from Home depot (they contract with the local places)

Beerlord said:

How many yards is 2 tons? I got 3 yard delivered last year for under $100 from Home depot (they contract with the local places)

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About 8. Very roughly.

I also found that these place are very inconsistent on how the quantify the volume. Logic sez by the cubic yard but most quanitfy by tonnage and few have been helpful when given area dimensions.

Geesh!

You can usually get bagged top soil for about a buck a 50lb bag. Ya, you have to move it yourself, but it's doable. You'd need about 8o bags

In and around OK City, Ask the local farmers if any of them have a way to bring you "Blow Dirt" from their fence lines. Usually, they just scoop it back into the fields, but if asked it's usually no problem to dump it into a pickup or something.
It should be just right for a Hops crop. It will be somewhat sandy, and it is in effect the top soil from farm ground. Here in Colorado we mix it about 1:1 with creek sand then plant grass in it. I bet I could find 50 front yards that were seeded that way. Anyway, this should work in Oklahoma too. Plus you could ask about local grains while you are there.

BigKahuna said:

In and around OK City, Ask the local farmers if any of them have a way to bring you "Blow Dirt" from their fence lines. Usually, they just scoop it back into the fields, but if asked it's usually no problem to dump it into a pickup or something.
It should be just right for a Hops crop. It will be somewhat sandy, and it is in effect the top soil from farm ground. Here in Colorado we mix it about 1:1 with creek sand then plant grass in it. I bet I could find 50 front yards that were seeded that way. Anyway, this should work in Oklahoma too. Plus you could ask about local grains while you are there.

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An excellent idea but, unfortunately there are no farms around my area. I do live in a rapidly developeing area betwixt two cities and there is an old dry river bed nearby. I am hopeing I can convince someone at the nearest construction site to haul a load a mere 3 blocks away to my yard for cheap. Trouble is they never seem to be working when I am able to get there.

I have my eyes on one site in particular. It has a nice deep brown soil with some reddish highlights. Which is about the best native soil one could find in my area. Frikin Oklahoma clay. It's too bad that Saaz hops are protected. I have read that they contribute their character to the high iron content of the red soils in which they are grown. Maybe my native soils will favor Sterling.

I'm in Michigan and 5 yards delivered is under $100. My pick up can only handle 3/4 of a yard max. and that is close to 1 ton.

I did visit the job site I have had my eyes on and talked to the manager of the project. It's looking like I'll be having 10 yards of powdered chocolate delivered to my house this week. I just have to negotiate delivery with the driver in question.

Why not improve your soil without buying it? Actually that is where you should start imho. Clay can be a great base soil to start with as long as you alleviate the compaction, mainly by adding Organic Matter (OM). There are oodles of methods for soil improvement, however the most simple is that if you have enough space to start composting then that is ideal. Another method for immediate relief is to double dig your soil to mitigate the effect of compaction. This will make a 'raised bed' out of your soil as there will be more air space. This is highly beneficial to wet seasons as the soil you plant your hops in will be above the surrounding ground. It doesn't help prevent Powder Mildew, (which is due to foliar dampness) but it will prevent root problems.

I can personally speak to the amazing improvements I saw when I used to have nothing but Red Clay with plenty of Limestone in there as well. After simply alleviating compaction by double digging I had plants that were transplanted out of a traditional garden bed actually surpass the ones left in the traditional bed! That includes transplant shock. The ones in the raised bed produced like mad, but the traditionally planted ones always struggled. After I began adding compost, it became evident that I would never return to traditional planting methods. Granted, double dug raised beds are not beneficial in every situation...however the soil and climate conditions where it improves things is greater than where it doesn't.

zoebisch01 said:

Why not improve your soil without buying it? Actually that is where you should start imho. Clay can be a great base soil to start with as long as you alleviate the compaction, mainly by adding Organic Matter (OM). There are oodles of methods for soil improvement, however the most simple is that if you have enough space to start composting then that is ideal. Another method for immediate relief is to double dig your soil to mitigate the effect of compaction. This will make a 'raised bed' out of your soil as there will be more air space. This is highly beneficial to wet seasons as the soil you plant your hops in will be above the surrounding ground. It doesn't help prevent Powder Mildew, (which is due to foliar dampness) but it will prevent root problems.

I can personally speak to the amazing improvements I saw when I used to have nothing but Red Clay with plenty of Limestone in there as well. After simply alleviating compaction by double digging I had plants that were transplanted out of a traditional garden bed actually surpass the ones left in the traditional bed! That includes transplant shock. The ones in the raised bed produced like mad, but the traditionally planted ones always struggled. After I began adding compost, it became evident that I would never return to traditional planting methods. Granted, double dug raised beds are not beneficial in every situation...however the soil and climate conditions where it improves things is greater than where it doesn't.

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I do plan to amend the soils myself which is why I need soil on the cheap. I need a raised bed garden to eliminate bogging as my hop yard is in the direct path of water runoff along the side of my home. Thus, digging in is not an option as it will just create a slow draining bog.

I actually don't mind the clay or the work involved to amend it. I just don't care for the premiums in the cost of material and I dont have any place on-site I can rob of the volume of soil I need for this project.

Over the last year and a half I have also been composting in preparation for this project and have amassed a nice mound of ready compost underneath a pile of regularly turned and weted, actively composting yard and kitchen waste.

If you double dig your clay soil, it should raise (depending on the amount of compaction) it around 6" above the surrounding soil, and if you amend with your finished compost even more so. The method of double digging will not make a depression, but rather a raised bed .

zoebisch01 said:

If you double dig your clay soil, it should raise (depending on the amount of compaction) it around 6" above the surrounding soil, and if you amend with your finished compost even more so. The method of double digging will not make a depression, but rather a raised bed .

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Ahhhh. I see what you mean now but, wouldn't it be just as effective to use a cultivator (tiller). My neighbor has one with, IIRC, 12" tines. My plan is to cultivate the native soils to loosen the up and then mix the new soil and compost in equal parts until blended with the native and then top cover with the new.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Ahhhh. I see what you mean now but, wouldn't it be just as effective to use a cultivator (tiller). My neighbor has one with, IIRC, 12" tines. My plan is to cultivate the native soils to loosen the up and then mix the new soil and compost in equal parts until blended with the native and then top cover with the new.

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The theory behind double digging is to help preserve your soil structure while mitigating compaction. It is a LOT of work but imho well worth it. A tiller is ok, but what happens is you end up rotating the top soil (depending on it's original depth) into the subsoil layers. With double digging you remove that and then put it back on top. Although it has been shown that soil, if treated properly can recover fairly well (given everything it needs) you can be ahead of the game by double digging. The other down side to a tiller is that you don't get any deeper than the tines can go. With double digging you are basically loosening down over a foot.

What you could do, is carefully remove and set aside the top 4 to 6" of soil and place it on a tarp or in a wheelbarrow, then till the lower soil (and add your compost and amendments), which should bring that level up to roughly a little above the surrounding soil. Then top back off with your topsoil layer (again mixing in compost, etc). If you choose to box it in with cedar, rock or untreated wood it will help prevent erosion (but the real key to preventing windborne and water erosion is having a high amount of OM in your soil). You can get away with no sides, and slope the bed. I add roughly 1 to 2" of compost every year and mulch heavily with shredded leaf matter or straw.

What is quite amazing is, and I'd venture a guess that when you dig into your soil that the earthworm population will be low as is quite common in compacted clay. Once you begin to add OM in the form of compost and such, you will most likely see a dramatic increase in your earthworm population. This is key to healthy soil.

Good points.

I do intend to box in with sheet metal, it was free. Funny you mention earth worms. My compost heap is nearly 5 foot tall and 8 foot diameter of which I had "seeded" with earthworms (long story about donated red crawlers) after reading a composting blurb about their benifits to aeration.

I may take your advice on the tilling of the subsoil as I think hand turning of this stuff will be way too labor intensive and time is running out for me to have it ready for rhisome plantings. We are transitioning right now and it is either very cold or very wet. I have absolutely no desire to hand cultivate wet clay and very little desire to machine cultivate it either. So I am waiting, planning, and collecting the necessities. To remind you we are talkin about a long narrow garden space that covers 150 square feet.

I have read up quite a bit on nematodes, any suggestions?

Our soil is laden with June bugs and I fear for my rhisomes with the potential of the larvea eating them up. I had not seen any when I originally dug the plot but don't doubt that they will move in.

The worms should come when they have food. This should happen naturally. If you see a skunk digging up your yard, he's after the June bugs . I am not sure how much damage they'd do to hops or if they are a threat.

One other thing, do not, I repeat do not attempt to till/plow/etc wet soil as it is not only hard on you and your equipement but the soil as well. Once the ground thaws and is not soggy that's the time. (but before it gets bone dry).

150 sq ft. When I lived in clay soil land, that is probably the amount I double dug by hand, it was a killer amount of work. If your area is about 2 tiller widths, you could shovel off the top layer (if you have sod there, just compost it...it'll take a while if it isn't broken into small chunks though) to either side of the path. Run the tiller down one side and back. Go slow and let it churn well so you get that aeration going. You want to go progressively down with the tine settings otherwise it'll kick up on you and you'll go flying (experience is a lovely teacher ). After the last two passes don't walk on it anymore. Then fill back in the topsoil with your amendments. If you can get a hold of some aged manure that is another great thing to add.

zoebisch01 said:

The worms should come when they have food. This should happen naturally. If you see a skunk digging up your yard, he's after the June bugs . I am not sure how much damage they'd do to hops or if they are a threat.

One other thing, do not, I repeat do not attempt to till/plow/etc wet soil as it is not only hard on you and your equipement but the soil as well. Once the ground thaws and is not soggy that's the time. (but before it gets bone dry).

150 sq ft. When I lived in clay soil land, that is probably the amount I double dug by hand, it was a killer amount of work. If your area is about 2 tiller widths, you could shovel off the top layer (if you have sod there, just compost it...it'll take a while if it isn't broken into small chunks though) to either side of the path. Run the tiller down one side and back. Go slow and let it churn well so you get that aeration going. You want to go progressively down with the tine settings otherwise it'll kick up on you and you'll go flying (experience is a lovely teacher ). After the last two passes don't walk on it anymore. Then fill back in the topsoil with your amendments. If you can get a hold of some aged manure that is another great thing to add.

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I have been using packaged manure and adding it to the compost heap every third layer or so. I should have a pretty rich mix available to top dress with once the weather allows planting.

Thanks for all the tips and yes, I know the limitations of using a tiller and it's inherent hazards.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Thanks for all the tips and yes, I know the limitations of using a tiller and it's inherent hazards.

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You're welcome. I always try to err on the side of caution when giving advice, even if it is at the expense of a breach of social etiquette.