120V electric element questions

I have begun reading about electrical brewing. I must say I am thoroughly intrigued. Unfortunately, my electrical knowledge consists of: fork in outlet = BAD....

I like the idea of 120 volt "regular" outlets, rather than 240V... so here's my question.

Could I put four 1500W 120V elements into a boil kettle, wire each with an extension cord, and plug them into a power strip into one outlet?

This way, I have 6000 total watts, and I can simply unplug one at a time as I go through the boil. ie start w/ all four, then move down to three, then two to maintain boil as I need.

With this setup, I would need no PID or SSR or what-have-you. For my HLT, I would probably use 2 elements.

Would it work? What problems can you see?

No, you can't. Normal household 120 circuits are on a 15 amp breaker, which would trip with two 1500 watt elements connected, much less four. The only way you could plug in more than one element would be to have each one plugged into an outlet that is served by a different circuit. So you would need to identify which outlets were on which breakers. The easy way to do that is to turn off one breaker at a time and go around testing all the outlets (plug a lamp into them, if you don't have a tester).

IF you have 20 amp breakers, you could connect ONE 2000 watt element to each circuit.

The breaker switches say 30. Is that the amperage?

Each element will draw 12.5 amps. Four of them will be 50 amps.

Just 2 elements on any single 120 volt outlet will trip the breaker.

GlenF said:

The breaker switches say 30. Is that the amperage?

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If it's a 30 amp breaker, it's likely two-pole, which means it's providing 240 volt power to something. If it's a single pole breaker, you would need to confirm that it has 10 gauge wire connected to it. It would be pretty unusual to have a household outlet circuit on a 30 amp breaker.

yea...you got it

most say 20...the 30's i saw were on a double breaker which i think powers the dryer...thus 240

OK, so with a 20 amp breaker you can handle up to a 2kw element, but again only one per circuit. If I were you and wanted to convert to electric, I would consider brewing in the laundry room! But seriously, if you DO, you really should have GFI protection.

As posted previously, your outlets will be on 20 amp breakers. If you have 15 amp breakers those should be for lighting circuits. In a home lights usually draw the least amps, motors more, heating elements (water heater, dryer, stove) the most.

As P-J said, you will not be able to run two elements from one outlet. Also, understand that, usually, all of the outlets in one room are run from the same breaker - so... you will not be able to run two elements even if you plug them into separated outlets - if - the outlets are on the same breaker.

If you live in a newer home, your kitchen outlets should be split up on two different breakers (that is code), so you could run two elements in the kitchen if you determine what outlets are fed by the different breakers.

One last thing. You mention using an extension cord to run power to the elements. Be careful here. Any cord feeding the elements should be able to carry 20 amps, therefore a 12 gauge wire - and it should not be a very long wire at that.

You can probably find a chart, the longer the run, the larger the wire ga. needed for your extension cord.

Most extension cords have the Amperage marked on them for the length. If you look closely a 100ft 12ga will be marked with a different amperage than a 25ft 12ga.

I'm brewing 5 gallon batches with 110v. I have two 1500W 110 elements mounted in the bottom of my kettle. The elements are wired separately into my control box. The box is fed by two different circuits (Sump and Basement Sockets) in the basement. I wouldn't attempt more than a 7 gallon boil though. (32 quart pot)

The one thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is how many opportunities this presents for leaks. Four elements on the pot means you have four big holes to seal and a mess of elements at the bottom of your pot to get in the way too.

Marsdude said:

As posted previously, your outlets will be on 20 amp breakers. If you have 15 amp breakers those should be for lighting circuits.

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Not necessarily. Some of the outlets in my house are 15A and some are 20A\ (home is about 13 or 14 years old).

Of all the stupid things.... the garage is wired for only 15A but the single outlet in the tiny downstairs bathroom (6'x3' room) is on 20A.

Jawbox0 said:

Most extension cords have the Amperage marked on them for the length. If you look closely a 100ft 12ga will be marked with a different amperage than a 25ft 12ga.

I'm brewing 5 gallon batches with 110v. I have two 1500W 110 elements mounted in the bottom of my kettle. The elements are wired separately into my control box. The box is fed by two different circuits (Sump and Basement Sockets) in the basement. I wouldn't attempt more than a 7 gallon boil though. (32 quart pot)

The one thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is how many opportunities this presents for leaks. Four elements on the pot means you have four big holes to seal and a mess of elements at the bottom of your pot to get in the way too.

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I agree with the mess of elements, but I have never had to fiddle with getting an element to seal in a pot, so whether it is 1 or 4, it may not matter. I currently have (2) in my pot (4500W each) and I can install them and remove them all day and not have a leak, elements seal pretty easy.

Walker said:

Not necessarily. Some of the outlets in my house are 15A and some are 20A\ (home is about 13 or 14 years old).

Of all the stupid things.... the garage is wired for only 15A but the single outlet in the tiny downstairs bathroom (6'x3' room) is on 20A.

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LOL - every time I make an absolute statement I get called on it. I should be a little more careful when I post.

How old is your home?

Marsdude said:

How old is your home?

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It's right there in the text you quoted from me, man...

The past two houses I've lived in were built after 2005, and both of them had 15A circuits for just about everything. The only 20A circuits were in the kitchens. Both passed some pretty detailed code inspections.

Exactly, newer homes will tend to have 15 amp circuits for all. with 14 ga wire. One thing to be careful of with an older home - if you have mostly 15s with one or two 20s, pull the dead front cover and make sure the 20s have 12 ga or heavier wire. I was helping a buddy with his new (to him) house and found that somebody had replaced a 15 with a 20, but it still had the original 14 ga wire. Stupid.

Fletch said:

Exactly, newer homes will tend to have 15 amp circuits for all. with 14 ga wire. One thing to be careful of with an older home - if you have mostly 15s with one or two 20s, pull the dead front cover and make sure the 20s have 12 ga or heavier wire. I was helping a buddy with his new (to him) house and found that somebody had replaced a 15 with a 20, but it still had the original 14 ga wire. Stupid.

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I had to go to the NEC book and look this up - OMG! You are correct. 15 amp circuits are allowed. The kitchen must have two 20 amp circuits, the bathroom, one 20 amp circuit, and the laundry room also. But 15 amp circuits are allowed in other rooms of the house.

I thought when I built our house I was required to put in 20 amp circuits for all the outlets. I may be mistaken though. I just may have never considered using a 15 amp circuit when I could run a 20 amp circuit for just a few more bucks. I even ran 20 amps for my lighting. I will have to check the local code.

Walker said:

Not necessarily. Some of the outlets in my house are 15A and some are 20A\ (home is about 13 or 14 years old).

Of all the stupid things.... the garage is wired for only 15A but the single outlet in the tiny downstairs bathroom (6'x3' room) is on 20A.

Click to expand...

IF you're comfortable,
And IF you have identified which breakers they are,
And IF the wiring to your garage is 12 gauge,
You can kill the main power of your panel, open it up, and swap the breaker for the garage to 20 amp. It's a simple operation.

Don't forget to write the change on the diagram of the panel...

You aren't familiar with the way contractors work are you?

They use the lowest price materials possible. If there is a 15A breaker in the box, there is almost certainly 14 gauge wire in the wall.

Regarding the holes in your pots and the potential for leaks, if installed properly, weldless fitting work just fine. You can buy an NPS lock nut for the elements at bargainfittings.com. It will come with a silicone O-ring and although it can be a bit tricky to tighten without warping the O-ring so it squeezes out the side of the lock nut, they work just fine.

A second option is find a local welder who can weld lock nuts on the side of your brew keggle. I got a four holes punched, the top cut off two kegs and six locknuts welded on for me for like $100. (two of the locknuts were for thermometers and sight gauges.

The worry about leaking elements is really not a serious concern if you do them correctly. You can drill the proper size hole with a step bit or just buy a knockout punch and you're all set.

More complicated is properly potting the elements. You don't want wires hanging out of them, but there are a number of great threads here showing some of your options, from waterproof, outdoor boxes to JB weld encasements.

As for the circuits, it really is pretty straightforward to add circuits to your panel, if you're comfortable. But as others have suggested, you will likely have to run new wires of the proper gauge and wire up gfci receptacles. If doing that, I would go with gfci receptacles that you can control with a switch.

You know, I went down this round myself. I started with one keggle serving as both HLT and BK, two elements in each plugged intro separate circuits on switched receptacles. Well, I eventually added a separate BK, two more switches, then another pump, ventilation fan, RIMS tube. Before long I had like 10 switches and I started wanting a control panel.

My point is, if you know where you'd like to be, you can design something now that would approximate it. Or, if you just want to start with the switched receptacles, it's a good learning step towards larger projects like a control panel.

In my experience, 2000W is about perfect to boil 5-7 gallons. So if you size your elements properly, you can do well with just switched outlets.

Hope that helps. Cheers.

Dan