Does this GFCI look like it will work?

QUESTION STARTS IN 2nd PARAGRAPH!! :-D

Hey HBT! It's good to be back after about a 9 month hiatus. My wife and I had a son 1 year ago and brewing, unfortunately, had to take a backseat. Worst of all, I didn't make it on the forum very often! I'm back to brewing and had a smashing success recently... I brewed BM's cream of three crops last minute for a party and, only 18 days after brewday, the BMC crowd was proclaiming it "one of the best beers I've ever tasted!" Needless to say, I'm glad to be back brewing!!!
:fro:

So... Right now I use "heatsticks" to do all the heating I need on brew day. I'd like to upgrade in a couple of ways. First, I'd like to move to 240v with one stick (or maybe use one 240v and one 120v element for even quicker heating!).

I also want to install the elements into the keggle so there is no moving them around and pulling them in and out.... It just makes me a little nervous.

I like the idea of using the Dryer outlet for the 240v element but I know there is a huge importance on having the gfci capabilities. I've seen the McMaster-Carr version which is about $60.50. Obviously well worth it for safeties sake.

A google search brought my attention to the Cole-Parmer website. There I saw this product and wondered if it is similar to the McM-Carr GFCI. The title of the product says 120/240V but the specifications only say 120V.
I know enough to respect electricity and remain safe but little more.

I did a search and found nothing on this particular product, so I thought I'd ask. Thanks in advance for all responses!

Probably won't work. GFCI's look for a difference in the hot and neutral wires. to go to 240 on normal outlet you sacrifice the neutral and use the ground. 120v GFCI's won't work for 240v.

what is the wattage of your 240v heating element? It will likely pull more than 20A making either GFCI inadequate for your needs.

Yeah... not looking good. Just saw it's only rated to 15A as well. Saw another product for $70 that looks more like the real deal. McMaster-Carr wins again!

So.. if I get the 1" locknut from bargain fittings.. The only other thing I need to seal the element in is a gasket of some kind, correct? What would you recommend?

Looks risky to me. Have you considered just replacing the breaker in your box with a GFI? Lots of breakers on ebay, and if you are uncomfortable replacing it yourself you can get a neighbor to help (free homebrew helps).

I just replaced a breaker in my box with the GFI equivelent, $50 off ebay. 30A 240VAC.

burton178 said:

Yeah... not looking good. Just saw it's only rated to 15A as well. Saw another product for $70 that looks more like the real deal. McMaster-Carr wins again!

So.. if I get the 1" locknut from bargain fittings.. The only other thing I need to seal the element in is a gasket of some kind, correct? What would you recommend?

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elements come with a rubber gasket, so the nut is all you need. Now, you will need to pot the electrical side of it.

passedpawn said:

Looks risky to me. Have you considered just replacing the breaker in your box with a GFI? Lots of breakers on ebay, and if you are uncomfortable replacing it yourself you can get a neighbor to help (free homebrew helps).

I just replaced a breaker in my box with the GFI equivelent, $50 off ebay. 30A 240VAC.

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I'm thinking unless it was specialized you got ripped. Lowes has them cheaper for double doubles!

No Lowes or HD had a Square-D QO 30A 2-pole GFI. I looked.

Passedpawn.. thanks for the help. Truly appreciated. I definitely know that I need to pot the electrical side, and I completely forgot about the gasket that comes with the element!

Any reason you think this wouldn't work for my needs if I were to go for the gusto with a 5500watt element?

if you need a 50A circuit, check out one of these guys

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=101594-82364-BR50SPA

Probably don't need 50A... 30 would be plenty. Hm.. another ebay link... (apologies for researching and posting at the same time!!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/SQUARE-D-30-AMP...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca2a50c4a

burton178 said:

Passedpawn.. thanks for the help. Truly appreciated. I definitely know that I need to pot the electrical side, and I completely forgot about the gasket that comes with the element!

Any reason you think this wouldn't work for my needs if I were to go for the gusto with a 5500watt element?

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or this would work, if it matches your panel. even if your panel is a square d, you have to be careful to get the either homeline or qo (whichever matches your panel). i can't really tell from the picture what that one is though

burton178 said:

Probably don't need 50A... 30 would be plenty. Hm.. another ebay link... (apologies for researching and posting at the same time!!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/SQUARE-D-30-AMP...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca2a50c4a

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that one is a bolt on, you probably don't have that in your home

Burton, breakers are not standardized. You need to make sure you get the same brand breaker as your box. The box should have some kind of label in or on it, or look at the breakers themselves for a brand.

Furthermore, some manufs (like Square-D) have multiple lines that are not compatible. For example, the one you show (first one) is likely a Homeline breaker, not a QO. It's not rocket science, but you just need to get the right thing.

That breaker would certainly power 1 or 2 elements. Note: you MUST NOT replace a breaker with one of a higher rating. The breaker protects the wiring downstream from it. You can melt the insulation right off the wire and risk fire!

If the breaker to your dryer ckt is 50A, and that breaker is the same brand and model as your current breakers, you are in business!

BTW, replacing a breaker takes about 3 minutes. If you feel uncomfortable doing it, ask around. Shouldn't be hard to find someone who has done this to help. Offer beer (after the job).

Your second link is a QO... same brand as mine. But that is a 1 pole (120V) breaker. You will be looking for a 2-pole GFI or GFCI breaker, which is for 240V ckts. It will be double-wide.

LOL.. *takes notes*... "beer... AFTER... job"

Remember that part earlier in the thread where I said I knew just enough to stay safe and not much more???
Well it's showing itself very well as you all educate me here! What would I do without you! Just so you all know, I wouldn't do anything without running it through my father-in-law who is an expert in all things electrical.

It's an "I-T-E/Siemens" box and the dryer is currently on a double 30AMP breaker. I'm trying to find that in a GFCI... the narrowing down is starting to make it more difficult.

BTW... I took note of the QO vs. Homeline thing... There is nothing written on the box but I'm guessing it's not QO.

passedpawn said:

No Lowes or HD had a Square-D QO 30A 2-pole GFI. I looked.

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Pretty much interchangeable.

Nova5 said:

Pretty much interchangeable.

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Neither Lowes or HD had anything usable. And I am certain it would have been more than $50. I challenge you to find a new replacement for a Square-D QO230FGI for less than $50. And, when you say "pretty much", what do you mean?

Members Kal and Conpewter used a 30A 240v GFCI pigtail (extension cord kinda) I think it was $80 but you could take it with you if you ever moved.

pickles said:

Members Kal and Conpewter used a 30A 240v GFCI pigtail (extension cord kinda) I think it was $80 but you could take it with you if you ever moved.

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If that is the long yellow thing then yes that is cool. I thought about that myself, but in the end the box breaker was cheaper. And truer protection. I put my 240 outlet in my pool area, and I have kids.

No it has a 17' cord, plug and gfci. It's gray. I'll find the link today.

Here is the link.

Mine should be here today.

Thanks for the link! My dryer has this outlet:
http://applianceguru.com/dryers/dryer_outlet.jpg

If I'm correct, this is a 3 wire hookup (my dryer). SO.... being as though the product in question is a 4 wire hookup what is my shortest (and hopefully least expensive) route to creating a viable outlet that my dryer and keggle element can hook up to?

pickles said:

Here is the link.

Mine should be here today.

Click to expand...

I love this thing! With a normal dryer outlet you don't have a ground wire, since it uses the new dryer outlets (4 prong) you get a ground wire to ground the keggle to.

Depending on where your breaker box is you could run a new wire for the 4 prong dryer outlet. Or if the house has conduit you could replace the outlet you have with a 4 prong outlet and ground to the conduit (I've seen a lot of houses that use just the conduit as ground).

4 prong is the new code as far as I know.

I would rewire receptacle since the ground is definately important. I'm not sure what the code is but everything should be grounded.

Soo..... If i have this straight.... I need to rewire things in the following way... Correct?

1. Buy a new dryer outlet that matches the cord pictured above. Rewire it to the breaker with a ground. Link

2. Buy new dryer cord (link) and put a screw in the back to attach the ground cord to. I only have a 3 wire plug right now so there is no place for the ground... but since there will be a new 4 cable receptacle the wires will contain a ground that I have to connect to the body of the dryer.

4. Install element in keggle and wire it to the cable shown above (17 feet isn't ideal but I'm guessing I need to make it enough.

This is starting to get expensive and make me think I should just install two 120v elements since I have several GFCI outlets on different breakers. hmm... I hope others are getting something out of this and I'm not wasting anyone's time!

burton178 said:

Soo..... If i have this straight.... I need to rewire things in the following way... Correct?

1. Buy a new dryer outlet that matches the cord pictured above. Rewire it to the breaker with a ground. Link

2. Buy new dryer cord (link) and put a screw in the back to attach the ground cord to. I only have a 3 wire plug right now so there is no place for the ground... but since there will be a new 4 cable receptacle the wires will contain a ground that I have to connect to the body of the dryer.

4. Install element in keggle and wire it to the cable shown above (17 feet isn't ideal but I'm guessing I need to make it enough.

This is starting to get expensive and make me think I should just install two 120v elements since I have several GFCI outlets on different breakers. hmm... I hope others are getting something out of this and I'm not wasting anyone's time!

Click to expand...

1. yes
2. Are you attaching this to a dryer? Not sure I follow.
3. Since your rewiring the receptacle why not move it to a location that is more ideal, then plug the gfci (17' cord) into it.
4. Yes that would work, but I think a lot of people with permanent elements wire them into some sort of controller (i.e. PID)

It may not be a simple project for what your looking to accomplish.

pickles said:

Here is the link.

Mine should be here today.

Click to expand...

That is an RV cord, you might be able to find on at a RV/camping supply store.

Depending on when you house was wired, you might have the Ground wire already in the Dryer outlet, and just the receptacle needs to be replaced with a new 4w type.

dont forget that if your going to still use the dryer when not brewing to replace its cord to the new type also.

More food for thought.

If you have a 240V 20amp oulet for something like an air conditioner you could use this GFCI extension cord from McMaster-Carr:



I think you could use a 4000 Watt 240 volt element with it. I'm thinking about chopping off the female end and wiring it direct to a 3000 watt element. Anything wrong with this idea? My thought is that it will give me all the protection with more portability and plug in options.

One word of caution when buying breakers online. Watch out for counterfeits. If you do a google search you will find that there was an epidemic a while back.

I bought one on ebay (Square D QO 50A), and then thought twice and asked the seller for more pictures. when i got the pics, the breaker just didn't look right. I cancelled the transaction and just bought a hot tub spa pack from Lowes.

It cost 90 dollars, but at least I (SWMBO) knew that it was legit.... I think if you killed yourself on a 50 dollar ebay breaker, your SWMBO might be mad that you didn't spend the extra 40 dollars.

There are many different types of spa gfi breakers. I went with the Square D qo because that make and model has a good reputation. Others (cutler hammer, etc.) were cheaper.

For me, i took the gfi breaker out of the box and just installed it in the loadcenter. the nice part about the spa panel is that if you install it in the box it comes in, you do not have to get the same make and model as your load center.

I cant for the life of me find the one i bought online, but both HD and Lowes should have them.

sjlammer said:

For me, i took the gfi breaker out of the box and just installed it in the loadcenter. the nice part about the spa panel is that if you install it in the box it comes in, you do not have to get the same make and model as your load center.

I cant for the life of me find the one i bought online, but both HD and Lowes should have them.

Click to expand...

That is one thing to point out, make sure you only install breakers approved for your panel. Even if they fit, it may void your homeowners policy by installing breakers that are not approved by/for that panel.