Started my first berliner

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Yeah, that is the same one I had it at last year, out on the patio.

I did not do a decoction for this one, but I would imagine it is done to modify the flavor and maybe add some more complex sugars for the bugs.

There is no pelicle with a BW because of the type of bugs used. I am not a sour expert, but I believe it is formed by brett, and since the BW is mainly soured by lacto d, it should not crust over.
 
Lactobacillus will most definitely form a pellicle.

My BW uses European Ale and L. delbrueckii

IMG_5628.JPG
 
Not sure what you have in there, but it isnt all lacto, It looks like you have some sort of oxidative yeast in there,

The only reason a pellicle forms is becasue the bugs like small amounts of 02, so they form at the surface where they may get some, lacto on the other hand doesnt really care one way or the other, so it grows throughout the wort

Did you add dregs etc to this? Whats your recipe, I always love hearing about others experiences with wild beers


Decoctions add a lot of flavor in a really light beer like a berliner, I really suggest you do one if you make the beer, afterwards youll really be able to understant what a decoction brings to a beer
 
so essentially when the pellical drops is it considered done and does the sourness change over time for this type of beer? i also know they have to age rediculous amounts of time to get the desired level of sourness but should i chose to age in bottle or kegs will it continue to sour over time?
 
Lactobacillus will most definitely form a pellicle.

Well that is definitely a pellicle, but I am not sure that it was caused by lacto. I thought brett was the primary bug in developing a pellicle. I would not mind being proven wrong, but even Vinnie C seems to back this notion up in his PowerPoint presentation here: http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/VCPresentation.pdf

For example:
Brett forms a pellicle- a lumpy white film yeast that coats the top of the beer in fermentation. The yeast cells form chains that can float on the top of beer making use of atmospheric oxygen, thus, Brett is an oxidizing yeast. The pellicle will form in the fermenting vessel (porous or non-porous) and help guard against oxidation during the long aging / fermentation time. The pellicle also guards against acetobacter.
Leave the pellicle in tact.
A pellicle can form in the bottle as well
There is a slide on Lacto, particularly lacto D, and there is no mention of pellicle forming at all. I would imagine if that was a charictoristic of the bug, Vinnie would have noted it.

Again, I may be wrong since I am making some leaps with my assumptions, but I am not convinced the pellicle in that better bottle is from lacto d.
 
I got no pellicle in my b-weisse. I pitched less than half a tube of lacto-D into my wort, no sacch-C, and it fermented out in several days, looked like a normal ale fermentation, but without a thick krausen...just a collection of bubbles up top. Nothing even resembling a pellicle.
 
In my experience (and I've done two or three BW using the same recipe), Lactobacillus + Sacch will, given enough time, form a pellicle though it looks quite different from a Brett pellicle.

The picture posted above was after approximate 3-4 months of aging in secondary.
 
what about the second question...how can you tell if its done? Assuming i dont have bret in the culture of lacto i use and i dont get a pellical, is there anything besides gravity to tell when its finished? What worries me are bottle bombs and that it wil attenuate below 1.003....
 
what about the second question...how can you tell if its done? Assuming i dont have bret in the culture of lacto i use and i dont get a pellical, is there anything besides gravity to tell when its finished? What worries me are bottle bombs and that it wil attenuate below 1.003....

Lactobacillus isn't a super attenuator like Brettanomyces, and it is inhibited by pH. Bottle bombs aren't a concern, in my opinion.
 
Lactobacillus isn't a super attenuator like Brettanomyces, and it is inhibited by pH. Bottle bombs aren't a concern, in my opinion.

thank you- thats what i wanted to know.

Anyone who has bottled there- how has it aged in bottle? Does it stay good for a while or does it decline quickly since its wheat and low alcohol? I tend to take forever to go through my beers so i want to make sure this will stay good for a while...my hef turned kinda crapy since i took to long to drink them and i dont want to make that mistake again
 
Only two Brett beers here, but I have never had a pellicle drop. One is going on 14+ months. I'm getting ready to say "f- it" and bottle 'er up.
 
thank you- thats what i wanted to know.

Anyone who has bottled there- how has it aged in bottle? Does it stay good for a while or does it decline quickly since its wheat and low alcohol? I tend to take forever to go through my beers so i want to make sure this will stay good for a while...my hef turned kinda crapy since i took to long to drink them and i dont want to make that mistake again

It does quite well in the bottle, all the berliners I have done get much better around the 3-4mos mark, as the meatiness from the wheat is starting to dissipate a bit then
 
In my experience (and I've done two or three BW using the same recipe), Lactobacillus + Sacch will, given enough time, form a pellicle though it looks quite different from a Brett pellicle.

The picture posted above was after approximate 3-4 months of aging in secondary.

It appears you are correct. I traded emails with Vinnie, and he essentially says the same as you:

Ryan,

Lacto does in time create a pellicle or at least a pellicle like cover over the beer. It will ferment sugar out, but, I’m not sure of how much if any alcohol production is created, I’ve seen Lacto only drop the SG of wort, but, at the time we didn’t have a lab so I couldn’t check for ABV in the lab. But, yes, it can drop the SG. It is actually a really good test to see how Lacto affects the flavor, you’ll see that it is a thin flavor, that is why I like Pedio as it is a richer flavor.

Take care,

Vinnie

The other point, about lacto and ABV is in responce to the post by Evan about if Lacto ferments.

I have to admit I was wrong in my previous post contradicting flyangler18. Hope this helps others.
 
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