Is aluminum really bad?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

grrtt78

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
I have a 4 gallon ceramic covered pot that i use on an electric stove. I got a chip in the ceramic which i tihnk is a problem. I am not sure i can still use it so i have been looking on ebay for pots and maybe even a propane burner. I am a poor college student and i have found some 7.5 gallon pots with propane burners for around $40 dollars after shipping that i really like. However they are all aluminum. I really can not afford to buy a new stainless steel pot so i guess my choices are 4 gallon ceramic with a chip on an elctric stove or a 7.5 gallon aluminum on a burner. Which should i do? is almuminum that bad?
 
This has been argued about for a long time. I did a quick search, and I think this thread has a pretty good summary of both sides. Hope that helps. FWIW, I will only use stainless steel. Once I move into a house, I'll be buying a larger pot. Right now I make due with a 20qt stainless steel.
 
You should be able to repair the chipped ceramic easily using ceramic sink repair available at nearly any hardware store. Ceramic though works as an insulator. You're lucky to get a boil on an electric stove.
 
I recently listened to the FAQ episode with John Palmer (or maybe it was the lagering episode) of Basic Brewing Network. Anyway, John Palmer even claims that brewing with aluminum is not a health issue. He did, however, talk about some sort of film or layer that develops on aluminum. As long as this layer/film is present, there is no problem.

That being said - I use stainless.

[edit] - ooops . . . that link posted by Torchy has better info about what John Palmer has to say.
 
I'll give my two cents also...I stick with stainless. Again, as others have said, there seems to be a growing concensus that aluminum is not dangerous, but there has been enough doubt raised for me to go exclusively with SS. A lot of people that advocate aluminum use will say that if you've ever eaten in a restaurant, your food was cooked in aluminum. If you feel comfortable with that, go with aluminum. I prefer not to chance it.

Besides, if you can get your hands on an empty half barrell, you'll have yourself a 15.5 gallon SS boil kettle with a few modifications. I got mine for $12. And, I'm not a handy man by any stretch of the imagination, and never worked with metal before. Yet, I managed to drill all the necessary holes and add the fittings, with very little difficulty. So, if you go this route, you'll get a bigger SS kettle, for less money, than you could buy an aluminum pot for.
 
From my reading, the only reasn aluminum isn't used in more places is that the caustic cleaners mandated for them will eat up the Al. Like, commercial breweries, or hospital. But then, you are not supposed to soak SS in chlorine either. That's why breweries don't use bleach as a sanitiser, but that's another thread.
 
I was just researching aluminum pots the other day myself.

This point was raised in another thread.

"Actually, in the real world of cooking, the heat capacity of your brew kettle is a very big concern. Why is cast iron so much better for cooking soup than aluminum? No hot spots...less chance of scorching. There is a reason that you don't see aluminum pots in professional kitchens."

The heat capacity of the bottom of a pot depends not only on the material characteristics, but also on the thickness of the material. If you make the aluminum thick enough, it will have a greater heat capacity than the SS.

I recently found an aluminum pot I liked because of its size. Prior to this I never gave aluminum a second thought. I did a bunch of research, including the health risks (of which there are NONE) and the pots for my brewing sculpture are going to be ALUMINUM.

Aluminum pots are much less expensive than SS. They conduct heat better. If cared for properly they will make just as good beer. They are not an inferior product.

Here is what one guy said about using a large aluminum pot versus a keg. And he now has a keg.

"In many ways I liked it better than my keg. Slightly more volume. Way lighter to carry. Much better heat transfer because of the alu."

http://www.bodensatz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=12&showtopic=6700

I am going to use my kegs as fermenters and kegs and buy aluminum pots for my brewing structure.
 
orfy said:
Regardless of the chemical/toxic arguments just think about the hygiene side. What do hospitals use exclusively?

That's enough for me.
Thank you!! AL develops a "protective film" on it BUT it can easily be taken off by just the movment of the wort boiling. AL has not been proven to do any damage to the humam body in small amounts but who wants to find out later that the same scientists we all beat up in high school were wrong. :) Oh well I think I'll RDWHAHB now.:mug:
 
"Regardless of the chemical/toxic arguments just think about the hygiene side. What do hospitals use exclusively?"

Hospitals autoclave everything ! It wouldn't matter if their stuff was aluminum or SS, it would get sterilized. The next time a human life is on the line when I brew, I'll surely get a SS pot. Until then, either SS or aluminum will do.

SS is probably used because of its strength and manufacturing characteristics more than anything.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing the health side of this.

Something I really find ironic is that people are afraid to brew beer in an aluminum pot and yet they will drink beer stored in an aluminum can. And take anti acid pills and use anti perspirants.

"Due to certain additives, processed cheese and cornbread are two major contributors to high aluminum exposures in the American diet. With regard to pharmaceuticals, some common over-the-counter medications such as antacids and buffered aspirin contain aluminum to increase the daily intake significantly."

Ironic that doctors perscribe daily aspirin for people predisposed to heart problems.

http://ehso.com/ehshome/alzheimers.htm
 
I just like how SS seems more durable then aluminum. When I accidently dropped my empty aluminum pot it dented pretty bad, thus I needed to spend $ to get a new pot. Now that I have SS, it seems as if I could throw it at the wall and it wouldn't dent like the aluminum one did. That's my $0.02. (by the way I don't recommend actually throwing your brewpot against a wall to test this theory)
 
Ask your LHBS if he has any, then maybe go to pottery barn, garden ridge, and hobby shops... The guy at my LHBS buys his 22qt SS pots, from those places for 5 dollars and then turns around and sells them for 10...
 
Sure you can "score" a 20-30 qt SS kettle for $50, but who can utilize that size of a kettle?? For any all grain brewer you will need at a minimum 40qts to meet the needs of larger brews and to do serious full wort boils that sometimes begin at 7 gallons. "Scoring" one of those is much more difficult.

Brewpilot
 
I have 2 converted SS kegs for a HLT and Kettle, and an aluminum false bottom in my mash tun. I go with what's cheap & available. The expanded metal for the mash tun was $30 shipped for aluminum, but would have been over $70 in SS.

Aluminum is much softer and can't handle corrosive cleaners. Most professional systems use a CIP system with caustic chemicals to clean the equipment so that they don't have to use elbow grease. Aluminum wouldn't last in that environment.

I figure if aluminum was really a health risk it would be banned for cooking by big brother. Besides, I'm probably doing a lot more damage to my brain with my homebrew than with trace amounts of aluminum.
 
brewman ! said:
The next time a human life is on the line when I brew, I'll surely get a SS pot. Until then, either SS or aluminum will do.

There's the quote of the day. Good for you. :mug:
 
By Brewman- " The next time a human life is on the line when I brew, I'll surely get a SS pot. Until then, either SS or aluminum will do."






This has got to be hands down the best line on this thread!!!LOL:mug:
Cheers to that Brewman!!!
 
*laughs Thanks guys.

The other ironic thing about the hospital using SS instruments is that they operate at room temperature, whereas we use our kettles to boil our wort and thus there is about zero chance of a contaminated kettle contaminating our wort. After all, when was the last time you sanitized your kettle ?

I'd go SS if the price differential wasn't so great and if I could find the right sized kettle. I want 20 gallon kettles so I can have 14 gallons coming out of the boil. I can save $100 to $150 per kettle using aluminum versus SS. I can spend those savings on other parts of my brew setup.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
 
You pays your $$$$$ and takes you're choice.
If I only had Aluminum available, guess what....It wouldn't stop me brewing.
I would never suggest that anyone doesn't use Aluminium but I know what I'd rather use. Given a choice between the two then I think most people would go for stainless steel. Sure the $$$ comes into it but any one suggesting that SS isn't the best option is gonna have a tough debate.
 
So what exactly is better about SS ? Its a harder metal, meaning it doesn't scratch as easily and its more chemically resistant to some cleaners. What else ?

Lets remember that we are talking about a boil kettle here and people have done boils in plastic pails ! (Me for one.)

One could argue that other metals are even better than SS, like tungsten or copper for example. So why aren't we running out and buying tungsten boil kettles ? Because SS and aluminum and in some cases plastic, THEY GET THE JOB DONE.

Its not about the equipment, ITS ABOUT THE BEER.

The only think about the equipment that matters is how hard or easy it makes it to make good beer. I've brewed in the kitchen and then in the basement and finally in the garage with a HERM system and every time I upgraded equipment, my brewing got easier, more convenient and better. Those criteria are the only ones that matter for me when selecting equipment. I fail to see how selecting a SS pot over an aluminum pot would make my brewing easier, more convenient or better. Tell me how it would and maybe I will change my mind.

While we are at it, where does economics fit into this ? I can save $110 per pot using 20 gallon aluminum pots over 20 gallon SS pots. $220 will buy me a spun SS metal hopper for a conical fermentor. So what would create more convenience in my brewing operations, SS brew pots or a conical fermentor ?

Brewing is a bit like cycling where you get the tech heads that obsess over the equipment, striving for the ultimate, saving 3 grams here, etc. Meanwhile the people that are in it for the sport don't have the lightest bikes and such, but they seem to win races. As far as I am concerned, I'll use whatever equipment makes my brewing easy, convenient and good.
 
Hey, I agree with you. Use what you want. There's probably not a lot in it.
I know new for new price is a big difference but I got my kegs at $16.
SS reacts with less chemical, is easier to clean, and you don't have to worry what cleaner you use as much as with Aluminium. And I don't have to worry if the theories on Alzheimer's and Aluminium are true or not.

It's a debate that is not going to be settled on this forum.

Each to their own and It's up to the individual to make their own mind up.

I have plastic kit. I have a plastic HLT.
 
:) And they didn't have SS in Egypt when the beer brewing started. Its like Orfy said "Each to their own" Well put!! Lets brew beer!!!!!:rockin:
 
And hence the big debate again...

I personally don't have a problem with using aluminum, but my kettles are stainless because they are more durable, they are easier to clean without worrying about a protective oxide layer, and I can weld stainless pipe fittings to them.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the potential off flavors and oxidation that rust can cause when the enamel/ceramic coating has been chipped off of a coated stock pot. Throw the old one away and go with the metal kettle of your choice that fits your budget.
 
brewman ! said:
...Lets remember that we are talking about a boil kettle here and people have done boils in plastic pails ! (Me for one.)...

How the heck do you boil in plastic pails? :drunk:
 
i went ahead and and ordered a burner and aluminum pot of of ebay. its a 30qt pot that i got w/ the burner for $25 including shipping. I hav a keg(after all i am a college student) shell so i will probably use that. I am gonna do two identical boils in my aluminum pot and my keg and see if there is a difference.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Actually you can do it with an immersion heater or "heat stick" as long as the plastic is rated to withstand temperatures above 212 F.

Ahhhhhh! I see said the blind man! I forgot about the immersion heaters. Thanks!
 
67coupe390 said:
:) And they didn't have SS in Egypt when the beer brewing started.
Kinda a weak arguement - no? They didn't have aluminum either so why use an example of what they were doing 100's and/or 1,000's of years ago...

That being said, I kinda wish people would stop using Palmer (and mis-quoting him) for an arguement about AL vs. SS. This page that has been refered to many times, every time this debate comes up. The only line that mentions it says: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Do not clean aluminum shiny bright or use bleach to clean an aluminum brewpot because this removes the protective oxides and can result in a metallic taste. This taste-detectable level of aluminum is not hazardous. There is more aluminum in a common antacid tablet than would be present in a batch of beer made in an aluminum pot." I bet there are a lot of AL kettles nice and shiny inside.[/FONT]

Palmer may be metalergist, but he is not a doctor... forgive me for not taking his word as "the-law-of-the-land", but that's ok, you won't remeber what he said anyway.

I use SS, that's my "choice". Get a keg and convert it, you can buy them from scrap metal places as scrap. I found them any where from $16 - $33 per keg... bring the guy a couple brews and he may even give you an extra one.

15.5 gallons for $33 for a SS pot. Beats the heck out of any AL pot I've ever seen.

IMO - if you are waiting for ANYBODY to ever come right out and say "AL causes alzheimer's", I think you will be waiting til a very warm place gets very cold. In the meantime, I would rather NOT find out that it does. The thought that I may be adding to the chances of getting alzheimer's is enough to keep me from considering it when there are other resources out there.
 
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chemicals/en/aluminium.pdf
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/PDF/i_aluminium.pdf
http://byo.com/mrwizard/1019.html



http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/PDF/i_aluminium.pdf

There have been numerous conferences on aluminium and health ever since the idea that the metal might be a risk factor for Alzheimer’s disease was first proposed. The medical research community, international and government regulatory agencies and the aluminium industry all review the evidence at frequent intervals. The overwhelming medical and scientific opinion is that
the findings outlined above do not convincingly demonstrate a causal relationship between aluminium and Alzheimer’s disease, and that no useful medical or public health recommendations can be made, at least at present.

It has proved extremely difficult to devise studies which could resolve this problem one way or another. Alzheimer’s is a common disease with multiple causes, while aluminium is widepread in the environment and there are no methods that allow us to measure an individual’s ‘body burden’ or lifetime exposure to this element.


wonder what would happen to the argument and arguees if it was found that the precious ss caused alz. hmmmm

alcohol can cause a myriad of problems. no one ever talks about that - it's just al vs ss
 
I really didn't base my decision on the health argument because it never really went any where constructive. I based most of my decision on this statement - "removes the protective oxides and can result in a metallic taste. This taste-detectable level of aluminum"

A good tasting brew without any "outside" undesirable flavors is hard enough to make without adding the possibility of it tasting like a chunk of aluminum. The health issues came second and I personally would rather not find out that aluminum does cause Alzheimer's.

When someone says SS causes cancer (or anything else) I'll take it under advisement, until then, I'll brew with my SS. You can "What-if" this issue all-day, every-day, and until "something" comes out stating SS causes XX it's pointless. AL has been named as one of the possible causes to Alzheimer's, even that posted study basically says - "no useful medical or public health recommendations can be made, at least at present." Meaning they are not saying it is linked to it, but they also did not come out and say it isn't.

You just put a $50 price tag on your health... mine is worth more than $50.
 
You just put a $50 price tag on your health... mine is worth more than $50

then i would advise you not to drink at all much less brew. additionally don't inhale - aluminum is also air borne

i along with a lot of ppl in our club have been brewing with aluminum for many years and i would challenge anyone to a taste test: ss vs al.

Meaning they are not saying it is linked to it, but they also did not come out and say it isn't.

yes but that's the kind of double talk I'd expect from "those in the know" in such a litigious environment. succently they have said nothing.

so here we have it. can't prove nor disprove al and alz

and we have many hundreds of perhaps thousands of homebrewers successfully using aluminum pots to make soem killer non aluminum tasting brew
 
Man this is one of the biggest dabates in homebrewing, and is the same in the medical community. Doctors and scientists still don't know the exact origin and causes of Alzheimer, and are still trying to determine the cause. AD was first studied around 1900 and no real advances were made towards diagnosis, treatment and deterence until around 1972. And still it's a mystery.

They blame it on old age, mutated genes, genetics, and many other things. Aluminum was found in the grey matter of certain AD patients, and many doctors blamed it on aluminum toxicity, and pointed that blame to aluminum products in general. Even though aluminum is the most abundant mineral in the Earth's crust. Other doctors claim the aluminum found in the grey matter is a result of AD. So who they heck really knows?

All major countries mine bauxite ore to produce aluminum, and it's many forms are used in buildings, vehicles, cookware, Rolaids, Tums, and other antacids and many other products. It's in the clay in our soil, in our air, it's definately everywhere. It's even a part of our water treatment facilities. It has though been proven to retard growth of roots and plant structures in plants that grow in acidic soils, but on the other hand, it doesn't harm neutral ph or alkali ph grown plants.

My opinion is that in about 10 or 20 years scientists and doctors may pinpoint what actually causes AD, but for now, they don't know. So to me, the brewing debate on if it causes AD can't be proven either way.
 
I got my aluminum bias from my mother, who never used aluminum because of off-tastes when cooking some foods like tomato sauce. I never even heard of the alleged connection between AD and aluminum until I'd already purchased my own SS cookware. I have an aluminum canning pot that I once cooked a rice dish in, and the pot came out so "blotchy" that I just stuck in in storage.

Right now I'm using a porcelain over steel canning pot for brewing. I also use this same pot for cooking ; at this time, any cookware I use for brewing has to perform this double duty. So as far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with SS because I find it stains less.
 
Back
Top