Another "beer didn't carb" thread

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seandamnit

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This is my first non-Mr. Beer batch, and it's already been a little disheartening. It's an Irish Red Ale - an extract recipe my LHBS recommended. Was in the primary for 2 weeks, secondary for 1 week, and now 3 weeks in the bottle (@70-80 degrees).

I tried a bottle at 2 weeks...there was just a tiny wisp of carbonation, and the beer was pretty sweet all around. I tried another again today, at 3 weeks, and it has the exact same level of carbonation/sweetness. There is a thin layer of sediment at the bottom that's been there since the first few days. I've only tried my glass bottles, though I do have a few 32oz PET bottles I've yet to crack open.

My fear is that the yeast was either spent or I ruined it to begin with. I did mistakenly pitch the batch a little hot...probably 85-90 degrees...and even though I was assured I probably didn't kill the yeast, the beer didn't ferment to the FG I was expecting (got 1.022, expected 1.016 according to the recipe). The fact that it tastes sweet tells me there's enough sugar, but maybe not enough yeast.

So my questions are:
-Am I just trying this too early? How long should I give it before I know for sure there's a problem?
-If there is a problem, is there a solution? I read on this forum that someone needed to add 1 grain of yeast to each bottle. Is that recommended?

I'd be pretty bummed if I spent all this time and money and have to dump it.
 
how much priming sugar did you use and how did you add it?

they should be pretty much carbed at this point if you did it right.
 
Wait it out. Did the exact same process and after 3 weeks my carbonation was the same as week 1 with settled yeast at the bottom. It took to week 5 to hit my carb level and I am a low tech extract brewer. I chalked it up to something I didn't do right at some point.
 
What size are the bottles you are using? I use 22 oz bottles, and most beers I make take a good 5-6 weeks to really carb up correctly. Also, based on recommendations I found on this forum, chill a bottle 4-5 days minimum before drinking, it really helps the CO2 get into the beer. Your 32 oz bottles may take even longer to carb up. If they do it does not mean anything is wrong with the beer.

Some believe that gently inverting bottles upside down and back a few times helps to get yeast back in suspension and help with the carbonation process. Let'm sit a week or so after if you try this.
 
progmac said:
how much priming sugar did you use and how did you add it?

they should be pretty much carbed at this point if you did it right.
Click to expand...

4 oz of the dextrose, per the instructions I received from the brew shop. Mixed and boiled in a few cups of water, added to the bottling bucket after it cooled, and racked the beer on top. Gently stirred, then bottled.

No bottle bombs, so I'd assume the sugar was mixed good enough.
 
How much priming sugar, and what size batch? What was your original gravity?

For a normal beer in the 5-6% abv range, with average level of carbonation, you want to use 1oz of corn sugar (by weight) per gallon of beer - so if it's a 5 gallon batch, you add 5oz of corn sugar.

If you did that, well... where is Revvy anyway with the patience post?? :D
Here is the link to his blog post that you should read.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/of-patience-and-bottle-conditioning.html

Edit: Just saw your post with the amount of priming sugar added. Should have refreshed first... d'oh. Still, I stand by the patience thing.
 
Paradingbull said:
What size are the bottles you are using? I use 22 oz bottles, and most beers I make take a good 5-6 weeks to really carb up correctly. Also, based on recommendations I found on this forum, chill a bottle 4-5 days minimum before drinking, it really helps the CO2 get into the beer. Your 32 oz bottles may take even longer to carb up. If they do it does not mean anything is wrong with the beer.

Some believe that gently inverting bottles upside down and back a few times helps to get yeast back in suspension and help with the carbonation process. Let'm sit a week or so after if you try this.
Click to expand...

All recycled 12 oz bottles, save for 8 32 oz PET bottles from my Mr. Beer kit. I haven't opened the PET bottles just yet.

I assumed chilling the bottle stops the carbonation process all together?

And I did shortly before posting this invert and gently swirled all the bottles. Guess I need to give it AT LEAST another week to see how that turns out.
 
boydsbitchinbrews said:
How much priming sugar, and what size batch? What was your original gravity?

For a normal beer in the 5-6% abv range, with average level of carbonation, you want to use 1oz of corn sugar (by weight) per gallon of beer - so if it's a 5 gallon batch, you add 5oz of corn sugar.

If you did that, well... where is Revvy anyway with the patience post?? :D
Here is the link to his blog post that you should read.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/of-patience-and-bottle-conditioning.html
Click to expand...

OG wasn't measured - I noticed mid brew that my hydrometer had broken in transit. Recipe said to expect 1.055. 4oz of corn sugar, per the instructions.
 
maybe, just maybe, maybe you used Maltodextrin instead of corn sugar,. in most LHBS both items are shelved side by side and they look identicle
 
seandamnit said:
All recycled 12 oz bottles, save for 8 32 oz PET bottles from my Mr. Beer kit. I haven't opened the PET bottles just yet.

I assumed chilling the bottle stops the carbonation process all together?

And I did shortly before posting this invert and gently swirled all the bottles. Guess I need to give it AT LEAST another week to see how that turns out.
Click to expand...

Yes, chilling does stop the carbing process, but it forces the gas out of the headspace in the bottle into the liquid where you want it.
 
Well, it's been a while, and no this beer never carb'd. In addtion, another batch I made, an IIPA, also didn't carb. Both batches have a small amount of sediment at the bottom of each bottle.

This makes me think that maybe the caps aren't on tight enough? They feel tight, and don't leak if I turn it upside down, but what else could this possibly be? And what can I do now to save these batches?

I have a third batch that has been sitting in the secondary for a while...I've been afraid to bottle it until I figure out my carb issues.
 
bottle carbing is such a simple process. the problem has to be something simple. let's look again at the fundamentals

fundamentals:

Yeast must be in suspension and alive.
* If you made beer and it fermented, there is yeast. Extended cold condition (6+ weeks below 40 degrees) or extended room temperature conditioning (4+ months) might leave too few yeast in solution to bottle carb.
* Heating the yeast above 120F or certain products like campden tablets will kill the yeast.
* If the beer is over 10% alcohol, the yeast may have died off. Pitch new yeast if bottling beers over 10% alcohol.
* If the beer got a nasty contamination and the OG was very very low, yeast could have potentially been killed off. This is a long shot.

You must add, to the bottling bucket, about 3-5 ounces of priming sugar or DME, LME, or unfermented wort with equivalent sugar content. This is generally dissolved in boiling water to allow even distribution and to sanitize. The mixture is then added to the bucket before the beer is siphoned (racked) on top.
* Sometimes people accidentally add some product other than priming sugar. Like maltodextrine. It sounds stupid, but people are not perfect and happens.
* Sometime the priming sugar isn't distributed evenly. Maybe it wasn't boiled enough to dissolve properly. Maybe it was added as granules instead of dissolved in water. Maybe it was added on top of the beer instead of underneath it (meaning, put the priming sugar solution in the bucket first). Maybe the beer was added in some manner that didn't allow for the priming sugar to be mixed. A 1/2" autosiphon results in the most optimal mix IMO.

Caps
* You put the cap on the bottle full of beer with priming sugar. You put the capper on top and depress the wings. If you turn the bottle upside-down, no liquid leaks out.
* If using plastic bottles, just twist on the cap
* If using grolsch-style bottles, flip the sealed ceramic cap on and depress the mechanism to create a seal.

Bottles
* Non-twist off
* PET types with appropriate twist-on caps
* Grolsch-style with seals in good condition

Time
* You should hear a hiss within 10 days. You often should wait 2-3 weeks for the carbonation to be decent.

That's it. It's so fundamental. If everything above is fine, then ghosts are the only explanation.
 
boydsbitchinbrews said:
Beer Poltergeists. Why didn't I see it before? It seems so obvious now. :D
Click to expand...
given the number of 'my beer didn't carbonate even though i did everything right and it has been four weeks' threads i've been seeing, this is the only explanation.
 
progmac said:
bottle carbing is such a simple process. the problem has to be something simple. let's look again at the fundamentals

fundamentals:

Yeast must be in suspension and alive.
* If you made beer and it fermented, there is yeast. Extended cold condition (6+ weeks below 40 degrees) or extended room temperature conditioning (4+ months) might leave too few yeast in solution to bottle carb.
* Heating the yeast above 120F or certain products like campden tablets will kill the yeast.
* If the beer is over 10% alcohol, the yeast may have died off. Pitch new yeast if bottling beers over 10% alcohol.
* If the beer got a nasty contamination and the OG was very very low, yeast could have potentially been killed off. This is a long shot.

You must add, to the bottling bucket, about 3-5 ounces of priming sugar or DME, LME, or unfermented wort with equivalent sugar content. This is generally dissolved in boiling water to allow even distribution and to sanitize. The mixture is then added to the bucket before the beer is siphoned (racked) on top.
* Sometimes people accidentally add some product other than priming sugar. Like maltodextrine. It sounds stupid, but people are not perfect and happens.
* Sometime the priming sugar isn't distributed evenly. Maybe it wasn't boiled enough to dissolve properly. Maybe it was added as granules instead of dissolved in water. Maybe it was added on top of the beer instead of underneath it (meaning, put the priming sugar solution in the bucket first). Maybe the beer was added in some manner that didn't allow for the priming sugar to be mixed. A 1/2" autosiphon results in the most optimal mix IMO.

Caps
* You put the cap on the bottle full of beer with priming sugar. You put the capper on top and depress the wings. If you turn the bottle upside-down, no liquid leaks out.
* If using plastic bottles, just twist on the cap
* If using grolsch-style bottles, flip the sealed ceramic cap on and depress the mechanism to create a seal.

Bottles
* Non-twist off
* PET types with appropriate twist-on caps
* Grolsch-style with seals in good condition

Time
* You should hear a hiss within 10 days. You often should wait 2-3 weeks for the carbonation to be decent.

That's it. It's so fundamental. If everything above is fine, then ghosts are the only explanation.
Click to expand...

Oops didn't realize I had replies. Here's the rundown:

1. It's beer, though the Red Ale didn't ferment down near where was expected (ended at 1.022, should have been 1.012. I got some things mixed up and thought that was close enough). The IIPA started and ended exactly where the recipe expected it to be.
2. At no point was the yeast 120 degrees, though the red ale was pitched hot...probably 90.
3. The IIPA is ~8.5% ABV.
4. Contamination is possible I'm sure, but I have no real reason to think so. I followed all reasonable sanitation procedures.
5. I remembered your comment earlier in this thread when I bottled the IIPA - where you said it's possible I used maltodextrine on the Red Ale. I double checked before priming the IIPA. Both beers had 4oz of priming sugar, boiled in 2 cups of water, poured in to the bottling bucket before racking the beer on top of it, then gently stirred. There were no bottle bombs.
6. Caps are tight. I suspended one upside down for a day to double check if there were ANY leaks.

The PET bottles are not carb'd, same as the 12oz bottles.

Maybe there are two separate issues with two separate beers here? Yeast was stressed on the red ale and pretty much spent when it was bottled, and IIPA's high ABV killed off the yeast?

I guess whatever the case is, what can I do to avoid dumping 10 gallons of beer? I think I'm going to pop each bottle open and drop 1 yeast grain in each, and see what happens.
 
I'm no expert, so I can't offer you much advice, but I'd like to hear what you end up trying with these. Btw, the sediment at the bottom of your bottles is yeast. I think there are carbonation tablets you can get that you put into each bottle (instead of using the usual corn sugar method). Perhaps you could look into them?
 
BRENTMAN said:
I'm no expert, so I can't offer you much advice, but I'd like to hear what you end up trying with these. Btw, the sediment at the bottom of your bottles is yeast. I think there are carbonation tablets you can get that you put into each bottle (instead of using the usual corn sugar method). Perhaps you could look into them?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that those are just sugar tablets, right? Advantage is that you are putting a precise amount of ferment-able sugar in to each bottle?
 
Tell us more about the yeast you pitched. How much did you pitch, did you hydrate/make a starter, did you check the health of the yeast etc?

Don't be disheartened, no matter how these initial batches turn out. I also transitioned from Mr Beer and these mishaps are just the dues you pay on the way to producing fantastic beer.
 
Maybe pop the tops, drop in a fizz drop and recap and give it a swirl? May be a little time intensive but beats dumping the whole lot....

Northern Brewer sells them, I think.
 
seandamnit said:
My understanding is that those are just sugar tablets, right? Advantage is that you are putting a precise amount of ferment-able sugar in to each bottle?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine they are basically corn sugar tablets. I looked at some reviews of them and they weren't so great. Whatever you do, don't dump the beer without trying everything possible. You have beer, it's just not carbed. There's got to be a way. Worst case scenario you may have to dump it all back into a bucket, with some fresh yeast and fresh corn sugar (dissolved in 2 cups boiling water for a few minutes).
 
You just need to figure out how to get yeast to eat priming sugar and create co2 in your bottles.
 
BRENTMAN said:
You just need to figure out how to get yeast to eat priming sugar and create co2 in your bottles.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do believe that is why the OP started this particular thread :D

I really feel like this is a yeast health issue. Your FG was 6 points higher than anticipated, and now the bottles aren't carbonating. I'd worry that adding more sugar (on top of the unfermented sugars that you finished with, and on top of the 4oz of priming sugar you have already added) would put you at risk for bottle bombs.
 
What are you using to sanitize with? Wrong concentration of sanitizer may kill your yeast.

Are you adding anything to your beer when transferring to a bottling bucket that may kill the yeast?
 
I basically put in the same amount of priming sugar in my first 3 batches, all using screw-on 500ml PET bottles.

My first two batches I cold crashed. At bottling I fully dissolved the corn sugar (dextrose) in water, put this solution into the bucket (carboy actually) and racked ontop of this solution before bottling. They came out BASICALLY flat. 1 or 2 good carbed beers but 90% of them were flat after 3 weeks. Then 4 weeks. I think I'm on week 7 or 8 now and while SLIGHTLY firmer, they still are basically flat. I see the thinnest stream of bubbles on the head, a pathetic hiss on opening, and no bubbling even if I ass-over-end the bottle pour into a glass.

My third batch, I didn't cold crash. I took the same amount of sugar, put it in solution, dumped half into the carboy, racked half the beer ontop of it, added the second half of the sugar solution, racked the second half into the carboy, took the siphon and stirred the whole damn thing gentle a few whirls, THEN bottled.

3 weeks in I had PERFECT carbonation on this third batch. Beautiful head. Great lacing. Fizzy, delicious bubbles.

I must admit a bit of confusion with this experience though. For starters, if not properly mixing the sugar was the issue I would expect to see some bottles nearly bursting at the seams while others flatter than flat. This never happened - they were all pretty flat with only 3 or 4 "good" (at best) bottles. Secondly, I'm tempted to believe my cold crash maybe pulled too many yeast out of suspension, but my bottles have plenty of settled yeast in the 'dead' bottles.
 
LogicBomb said:
I basically put in the same amount of priming sugar in my first 3 batches, all using screw-on 500ml PET bottles.

My first two batches I cold crashed. At bottling I fully dissolved the corn sugar (dextrose) in water, put this solution into the bucket (carboy actually) and racked ontop of this solution before bottling. They came out BASICALLY flat. 1 or 2 good carbed beers but 90% of them were flat after 3 weeks. Then 4 weeks. I think I'm on week 7 or 8 now and while SLIGHTLY firmer, they still are basically flat. I see the thinnest stream of bubbles on the head, a pathetic hiss on opening, and no bubbling even if I ass-over-end the bottle pour into a glass.

My third batch, I didn't cold crash. I took the same amount of sugar, put it in solution, dumped half into the carboy, racked half the beer ontop of it, added the second half of the sugar solution, racked the second half into the carboy, took the siphon and stirred the whole damn thing gentle a few whirls, THEN bottled.

3 weeks in I had PERFECT carbonation on this third batch. Beautiful head. Great lacing. Fizzy, delicious bubbles.

I must admit a bit of confusion with this experience though. For starters, if not properly mixing the sugar was the issue I would expect to see some bottles nearly bursting at the seams while others flatter than flat. This never happened - they were all pretty flat with only 3 or 4 "good" (at best) bottles. Secondly, I'm tempted to believe my cold crash maybe pulled too many yeast out of suspension, but my bottles have plenty of settled yeast in the 'dead' bottles.
Click to expand...
what was the abv in each batch and how long did each batch spend in primary, secondary, and in cold crash?
 
progmac said:
what was the abv in each batch and how long did each batch spend in primary, secondary, and in cold crash?
Click to expand...

First 2 batches were about 5.12%

They spent about 4-5 weeks each in primary at around 74F. No secondary. First batch spent about 2 days in cold crash (my fridge), my second batch spent about a week there.

Third batch I can't recall ABV but around 5% sounds about right. It spent about 4-5 weeks in primary as well but at 65F. No secondary. No cold crash.
 
If they were my beers I'd shake them up good and put them someplace warm for 3 or 4 weeks, like next to my water heater or my furnace in the winter. Leave them warm and dark and forget they even exist for a month.

Come back in a month and if they are still not carbed, dump them into a sanitized bucket with another packet of neutral yeast & re-bottle after your yeast is re-hydrated.
 
I've shaken them a few time and they're sitting at room temp (around 75).

Honestly, they taste good as-is without any/much carbonation (a brown ale and another darker ale) so they will be drank one way or the other. Maybe towards the end of the batch I'll start seeing them carb up and I'll regret not waiting. Or they'll stay flat and I'll still enjoy them. Even my wife loves them as-is despite my frustration with these two batches, it still made beer :)
 

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