Thermapen...

motobrewer said:

yes, when it finishes at 1.022 instead of 1.016

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/bad-yeast-just-unfermentable-wort-211897/#post2479421

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/ipa-fg-1-026-stout-fg-1-022-what-do-212984/

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http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

Scroll down to Figure 10 (Effect of mash temp on attenuation)

Quote: "This means that increasing the temperature by one degree Celsius (1.8 F) will lower the limit of attenuation by 4%."

Your example cites is a 27% change in attenuation by increasing the mash temp 2 degrees. Quite a difference from 4% in Kaiser's controlled experiments.

Furthermore, a mash temp of 154-156 is right at the peak limit of attenuation. Being at the peak means that you won't have proportional changes in attenuation (y) with a change in mash temp (x).

wildwest450 said:

Those used to be my go to thermometers, not anymore. You'd better check them every time you brew, which is ridiculous to have to do imo. My last one went off 2+ degrees just like that. Unacceptable to me.

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I do check mine regularly and it's been very reliably accurate so far. I think it would be foolish to blindly trust any thermometer, including the glorious Thermapen. I like the user calibration feature the CDN has. A very high price does not necessarily guarantee very high accuracy.

Catt22 said:

I do check mine regularly and it's been very reliably accurate so far. I think it would be foolish to blindly trust any thermometer, including the glorious Thermapen. I like the user calibration feature the CDN has. A very high price does not necessarily guarantee very high accuracy.

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Sarcasm noted. I calibrated my CDN, it's still 2+ degrees off where it counts, in the 150f to 160f range. So that feature is worthless.

wildwest450 said:

Sarcasm noted. I calibrated my CDN, it's still 2+ degrees off where it counts, in the 150f to 160f range. So that feature is worthless.

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My pont was that no instrument is immune from defects, including the Thermapen. I do have more faith in my traceable glass lab thermometer than any other though and that's what I use to calibrate the others. I only use the CDN for cooking and other miscellaneous tasks. I have a Cole-Parmer traceable digital thermocouple thermometer that I use in the mash tun. It's proven to be very accurate and reliable and I can place the probe deep in the grain bed where it counts.

When my digital meat thermometer probes got wet they went off by almost exactly 2 degrees (had it happen twice). Baked the probe in the oven and it came back to spec (I check it at work at mash-temp vs. regular mercury-filled thermometers with verified accuracy). I don't know how warm that unit can get but maybe something to consider (drying it out somehow).

I'm still just using Taylor digital meat thermometers with heat-shrink tubing on the metal-wire interface. I try not to submerge it and it's been fine for the last ~50 brews or so.

SpanishCastleAle said:

I'm still just using Taylor digital meat thermometers with heat-shrink tubing on the metal-wire interface. I try not to submerge it and it's been fine for the last ~50 brews or so.

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You're lucky. I've already gone through 2 Taylors. Both lasted maybe 10 brew sessions. After the last, I decided to order a Thermapen. It came but I have not yet brewed with it. Excited to do so!

TheAleMaster said:

You're lucky. I've already gone through 2 Taylors. Both lasted maybe 10 brew sessions. After the last, I decided to order a Thermapen. It came but I have not yet brewed with it. Excited to do so!

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How did they fail? I have three of them. One is 'stock' and is always in the keezer. One I removed the stainless steel probe (after it got wet several times) and just stick the thermocouple junction into a thermowell in a carboy. The other one has the heat shrink tubing on the probe. I use them not only to brew but also to monitor fermentation temps, lagerator temps, and for cooking. All 3 still work even though I partially melted the main housing on the one with the heat shrink tubing on it. Dropped them several times.

I actually want a Thermapen but I'm waiting for one of these to fail first. Maybe that's the trick, you have to WANT it to fail.

see below

400d said:

Tim, I would like to know what is the difference between the device everybody here is mentioning (thermapen) and this one:

http://thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt610b_12+24.html

I really like this one because of the probe length, but I suppose it's not as accurate as thermapen....

thanks

p.s.

question is not only to Tim, but to anyone who knows the answer

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There are many differences, of course. The main ones being the speed and range. The Thermapen gives accurate readings in 3 seconds or less (often less) while the thermometer you've linked to (RT610B) takes about 15 seconds. That's because it has a thermistor sensor and because of the size of the probe. The Thermapen has a micro-thermocouple sensor and a reduced tip. The thermocouple allows the Thermapen to go from -52°F to 572°F as well, where as the long-stem goes from -58°F to 392°F. It is more for composting and other environmental uses. Incidentally, we have some other thermistor-based digitals (less expensive) that are accurate in 5-6 seconds, see here: http://thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt301wa.html and here: http://thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt600c.html (though they top out at 302°F).

so, i got one for christmas...

we were in the kitchen, my dad took his taylor thermometer and put it in the pot of boiling water. it read 212.5F I put mine in, it read 210F. so obviously, I got crap for it...

looked up the current air pressure ,it was 29.40 inHg. Solving the ideal gas law gave 210F for boiling water.

brought it home, but the thermapen and my taylor into an ice bath. probes were right next to each other in the middle. taylor read 34.F thermapen 32.0F

Just ordered mine with christmas money. Can't wait to start using it for brewing and grilling. Got a yellow one.

That sounds about right. Glad you're enjoying your Thermapen! For a quick way to figure the boiling temp where you live, see http://www.thermoworks.com/BoilingPointCalculator

TimothyRobinson said:

There are many differences, of course. The main ones being the speed and range. The Thermapen gives accurate readings in 3 seconds or less (often less)

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Although I love my thermapen, I have to call bravo sierra on this. I have been taking temps on everything since I got mine 2 weeks ago, it's not that fast. 5-6 seconds is a lot closer than 3. And I do realize they never really settle, but i'm talking actual temps still dropping/rising. Is mine defective, or are you being a little optimist?

thermodynamics plays a bit into this. i mean, if you had a glass of water at a stable temperature and you shoved the pen into it, it'll get to that temp pretty quickly.


but if, for instance, you put it between your fingers until it heated up, then took your fingers off, it's not going to come back to room temp within 3 seconds. first, you built some heat into the metal probe, and second, non-moving air isn't very effective at moving heat.

wildwest450 said:

Although I love my thermapen, I have to call bravo sierra on this. I have been taking temps on everything since I got mine 2 weeks ago, it's not that fast. 5-6 seconds is a lot closer than 3. And I do realize they never really settle, but i'm talking actual temps still dropping/rising. Is mine defective, or are you being a little optimist?

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It's always refreshing to read a truly unbiased report. FWIW, I bought a cheap digital thermometer at Wally World for use when heating water to make French Press coffee. The cheapy was only $9.99, has a replaceable battery and a user accessible calibration screw. I checked it against my traceable glass lab thermometer and they agreed within a tenth of a degree. Not saying that they will all be this well calibrated, but this one happened to be. The instructions claim a response time of 5-10 seconds and that jives with my testing. I gave it to a friend along with the French press as a Christmas present. I think I will pick up another to have around as a backup and for use in the kitchen maybe. At that price, they are practically disposable. I'll post a pic if I buy another.

motobrewer said:

thermodynamics plays a bit into this. i mean, if you had a glass of water at a stable temperature and you shoved the pen into it, it'll get to that temp pretty quickly.


but if, for instance, you put it between your fingers until it heated up, then took your fingers off, it's not going to come back to room temp within 3 seconds. first, you built some heat into the metal probe, and second, non-moving air isn't very effective at moving heat.

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Agreed. It also depends on how much difference there is between the temperature of the probe (room temp?) and the temperature of whatever it is you are trying to measure. It will take longer to get from say 70F to 150F than it will from something like 70F to 100F. At least this is what I have observed with every thermometer I've ever used regardless of what kind it is. Some are faster than others, but none are truly "instant" IMO. With the "type k" thermocouple thermometers, you can buy replacement probes that have a faster response time. I use the plain wire bare junction type and they are plenty fast for my application.

indeed. i'm not terribly worried about speed, mainly accuracy.

motobrewer said:

indeed. i'm not terribly worried about speed, mainly accuracy.

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Me neither, but it's a claim they made. It was a simple air temp (68f) to water glass temp(40), I checked it first to get a temp, let it go back to room temp then timed it.

It took 6+ seconds, not very impressive.

6 seconds to what, final destination? the claim is 3 seconds to within 1 degree F. i'm not trying to defend them, and I haven't done any time trials myself, but it seemed quick when I was testing random stuff.

wildwest450 said:

Although I love my thermapen, I have to call bravo sierra on this. I have been taking temps on everything since I got mine 2 weeks ago, it's not that fast. 5-6 seconds is a lot closer than 3. And I do realize they never really settle, but i'm talking actual temps still dropping/rising. Is mine defective, or are you being a little optimist?

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I would call them if it is not doing what they claim it will do. I have a thermapen also and never really checked how much time it took. It was always fast enough for me but now I think I will give it a test just for chits and giggles.

motobrewer said:

6 seconds to what, final destination? the claim is 3 seconds to within 1 degree F. i'm not trying to defend them, and I haven't done any time trials myself, but it seemed quick when I was testing random stuff.

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To within a degree. There is really no "final" destination with these, their so sensitive it is always moving a point or two.

Not a big deal to me, just sayin' mines not as fast as their claims. As long as it's accurate, I could care less.

i'm gonna have to do some trials at home.

i put mine in an ice bath, touching ice, and it didn't move off 32.0F for at least a minute until i pulled it out.

wildwest450 said:

Although I love my thermapen, I have to call bravo sierra on this. I have been taking temps on everything since I got mine 2 weeks ago, it's not that fast. 5-6 seconds is a lot closer than 3. And I do realize they never really settle, but i'm talking actual temps still dropping/rising. Is mine defective, or are you being a little optimist?

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Wildwest450,
While there is some slight variation between Thermapens, you should find that your Thermapen gets to within one degree of the actual temp within three seconds.*After the display has slowed (after 3 seconds) it is normal for the tenths to keep changing as the real temperature changes. Whole degrees can change too if the liquid is changing by that much.)*You could check the Thermapen in a properly made icebath (see: http://www.thermoworks.com/blog/2010/10/making-a-proper-ice-bath/) and it should zoom to 33F within 3 seconds.

If it doesn't, you absolutely should contact us at [email protected] and we will make things right. If you find that it does reach 33F within 3 seconds but you are bothered by seeing the tenths change, you can switch them off in the battery compartment. While the tip of the Thermapen probe is in an ice bath, and is being slowly stirred, even the tenths should stop changing by more than 0.1 up or down within about 5 to 6 seconds.

I'm glad to see this post has sparked of much debate, and from the replies I have now got a Thermapen on the way!

That's awesome, Cazamodo. You should be getting a free copy of the new "Using Your Thermapen" booklet with more tips and info in your Thermapen package. Plus you can always come to Thermapen.com for posts, videos, etc. Happy brewing!

fyi:

https://www.thermoworks.com/thermapen-one-open-box-jul22/

My Thermapen broke and I was too cheap to get another. I went through two very inferior so-called "instant read" thermometers, but eventually found this:
Amazon.com: ThermoPro TP18 Ultra Fast Thermocouple Digital Instant Read Meat Thermometer for Grilling BBQ Smoker Kitchen Food Cooking Thermometer for Oil Deep Fry Candy Thermometer: Home & Kitchen
This thing is great; probably not at the Thermapen level of quality, but a fraction the price...

fwiw, I had my original "Splash Proof" MK1 refreshed for $35. It left with a cracked case and damaged pivot, came back looking like a brand new Thermapen, and works like one, too...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

fwiw, I had my original "Splash Proof" MK1 refreshed for $35. It left with a cracked case and damaged pivot, came back looking like a brand new Thermapen, and works like one, too...

Cheers!

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Whaaat? They'll do this? I love that company and the Jelly Belly's make me feel warm and fuzzy

Yup. I called Thermoworks following this guidance on their web site:

https://www.thermoworks.com/returns-repairs/
Have a product not working properly that might need a repair or service?

Call us for help: 1-800-393-6434 during business hours: 6am – 7pm M-F, and 8am-5pm Saturday, MST
A couple weeks later my trusty SplashProof was back totally renewed.

Cheers!